Hello. I know that normally a mundane item that is not attended does not get a saving throw, but I want to have the item have a chance. I am an old school d&d player/dm and I used to use the item saving throw list for when a person failed their saving throw or did not have it on them. I have a character that has a cart that has all of their supplies in it for making ale, along with several barrels of ale. We are going to be going up against several different kinds of dragons and because their (the characters) 'business' is known about and has been flaunted to their enemies, I know that the cart will probably be targeted by the dragons at the request of their allies. I was wondering if anyone had any list or way that they do saving throws for mundane items so I can prepare for this eventual inevitability?
I'm not sure it really makes sense to attribute Saving Throws to inanimate objects:
Str is normally about exerting a force on something else (like a Grapple Check. A bottle of ale won't do that.
Dex is about dodging, which a bottle won't do.
Con is about resisting disease and the like, which doesn't apply to bottles.
Intelligence is clearly not applicable since it has no intelligence.
Wisdom likewise.
Charisma is about force of will...and bottles have no will.
You can give it an AC which represents how hard it is to hit and how much it resists damage, and you can give it HP which represents how much damage you need to do before it breaks. That's described in the object statistics section of the DMG. According to that, for example, you'd give a glass bottle AC13 with 2d4HP.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Maybe use a rowboat as a base, since it’s probably about the same size as a cart. Rowboats are listed as 10x5 feet, feels about like a cart like to me. Rowboats are not proficient in any saves. Their stats have them at a -1 to dex, and a +0 to str and con. They have no score in mental stats, but I guess they can’t exactly be charmed and such so maybe they don’t need one. But as objects, they aren’t targeted by many spells.
And, technically, dragon breath weapons only target creatures. Objects don’t need to make a save and don’t take damage. It doesn’t make a lot of sense that fire or acid would burn a driver to a crisp while leaving the cart unscathed, but that’s RAW for you.
Having you considered applying a DamageThreshold to the cart for attacks that require a Saving Throw? First identify if the cart has resistance or immunity to a damage type. When the cart is subject to damage from an attack that requires a Saving Throw; first reduce the damage value (based on the resistance) and then compare the new value to the Damage Threshold you set for the cart.
To make the tracking of damage taken easier for you, I would only track HP for the total cart (value should be high to account for everything being carried) and create a few tables for damage scenario: Minimal Damage Table: Minor Damage Table; Excessive Damage Table, etc. After combat look at the HP lost by the cart and then roll on the table to see what the outcome looks like. So for example, if the cart lost more than 3/4ths of its HP roll on a tale that looks like:
1. Two of the barrels are destroyed and unsalvageable 2. The wheel and axle is damaged. Without repairs the cart is immobile 3. The bed or rails have collapsed and the barrels are spread across the ground. 1d4 of the barrels are leaking 4. The tools are destroyed. Barrels and cart heavily damaged. Ability checks to interact with them are at disadvantage and on a fail the integrity of the object is compromised 5. The cart and barrels seems to only have cosmetic damage; but the contained liquids are ruined and must be disposed of 6. Reroll die until two unique instances above occur.
I will leave the call up to you if they party can repair damaged items and remove the condition.
This is a discussion you should have with your GM. Nothing anyone suggests here is going to make your GM change how they treat it.
And also, maybe don't bring the cart when you go adventuring. Frankly, a cart is a wildly impractical thing to be lugging around if you're traveling anything other than a good-condition road between towns. It's big, it's nosy, and it's not something that can be dragged over uneven ground in the first place.
I'm not sure it really makes sense to attribute Saving Throws to inanimate objects:
Str is normally about exerting a force on something else (like a Grapple Check. A bottle of ale won't do that.
Dex is about dodging, which a bottle won't do.
Con is about resisting disease and the like, which doesn't apply to bottles.
Intelligence is clearly not applicable since it has no intelligence.
Wisdom likewise.
Charisma is about force of will...and bottles have no will.
You can give it an AC which represents how hard it is to hit and how much it resists damage, and you can give it HP which represents how much damage you need to do before it breaks. That's described in the object statistics section of the DMG. According to that, for example, you'd give a glass bottle AC13 with 2d4HP.
Does this mean a glass bottle is approximately as strong as a level 2 wizard? Arguably a very unlucky level 8 wizard can still be destroyed by being hit by a glass bottle?
I'm not sure it really makes sense to attribute Saving Throws to inanimate objects:
Str is normally about exerting a force on something else (like a Grapple Check. A bottle of ale won't do that.
Dex is about dodging, which a bottle won't do.
Con is about resisting disease and the like, which doesn't apply to bottles.
Intelligence is clearly not applicable since it has no intelligence.
Wisdom likewise.
Charisma is about force of will...and bottles have no will.
You can give it an AC which represents how hard it is to hit and how much it resists damage, and you can give it HP which represents how much damage you need to do before it breaks. That's described in the object statistics section of the DMG. According to that, for example, you'd give a glass bottle AC13 with 2d4HP.
Does this mean a glass bottle is approximately as strong as a level 2 wizard? Arguably a very unlucky level 8 wizard can still be destroyed by being hit by a glass bottle?
A level 2 Wizard will have an average HP of 10 (assuming Con modifier of 0), a bottle would have half that at 5.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Objects are immune to poison and psychic damage. You might decide that some damage types are more effective against a particular object or substance than others. For example, bludgeoning damage works well for smashing things but not for cutting through rope or leather. Paper or cloth objects might be vulnerable to fire and lightning damage. A pick can chip away stone but can't effectively cut down a tree. As always, use your best judgment.
A cart officially counts as a Large object, being wooden and assuming it is well built and sturdy, it would have AC 15, 27 HP, and be immune to poison and psychic damage. It would typically fail all saving throws, but if you wanted to be generous you could treat it as having Str & Con 10, and simply fail all other saves.
Hello. I know that normally a mundane item that is not attended does not get a saving throw, but I want to have the item have a chance. I am an old school d&d player/dm and I used to use the item saving throw list for when a person failed their saving throw or did not have it on them. I have a character that has a cart that has all of their supplies in it for making ale, along with several barrels of ale. We are going to be going up against several different kinds of dragons and because their (the characters) 'business' is known about and has been flaunted to their enemies, I know that the cart will probably be targeted by the dragons at the request of their allies. I was wondering if anyone had any list or way that they do saving throws for mundane items so I can prepare for this eventual inevitability?
Thanks so much!
I'm not sure it really makes sense to attribute Saving Throws to inanimate objects:
You can give it an AC which represents how hard it is to hit and how much it resists damage, and you can give it HP which represents how much damage you need to do before it breaks. That's described in the object statistics section of the DMG. According to that, for example, you'd give a glass bottle AC13 with 2d4HP.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Maybe use a rowboat as a base, since it’s probably about the same size as a cart. Rowboats are listed as 10x5 feet, feels about like a cart like to me. Rowboats are not proficient in any saves. Their stats have them at a -1 to dex, and a +0 to str and con. They have no score in mental stats, but I guess they can’t exactly be charmed and such so maybe they don’t need one. But as objects, they aren’t targeted by many spells.
And, technically, dragon breath weapons only target creatures. Objects don’t need to make a save and don’t take damage. It doesn’t make a lot of sense that fire or acid would burn a driver to a crisp while leaving the cart unscathed, but that’s RAW for you.
Having you considered applying a DamageThreshold to the cart for attacks that require a Saving Throw? First identify if the cart has resistance or immunity to a damage type. When the cart is subject to damage from an attack that requires a Saving Throw; first reduce the damage value (based on the resistance) and then compare the new value to the Damage Threshold you set for the cart.
To make the tracking of damage taken easier for you, I would only track HP for the total cart (value should be high to account for everything being carried) and create a few tables for damage scenario: Minimal Damage Table: Minor Damage Table; Excessive Damage Table, etc. After combat look at the HP lost by the cart and then roll on the table to see what the outcome looks like. So for example, if the cart lost more than 3/4ths of its HP roll on a tale that looks like:
1. Two of the barrels are destroyed and unsalvageable
2. The wheel and axle is damaged. Without repairs the cart is immobile
3. The bed or rails have collapsed and the barrels are spread across the ground. 1d4 of the barrels are leaking
4. The tools are destroyed. Barrels and cart heavily damaged. Ability checks to interact with them are at disadvantage and on a fail the integrity of the object is compromised
5. The cart and barrels seems to only have cosmetic damage; but the contained liquids are ruined and must be disposed of
6. Reroll die until two unique instances above occur.
I will leave the call up to you if they party can repair damaged items and remove the condition.
This is a discussion you should have with your GM. Nothing anyone suggests here is going to make your GM change how they treat it.
And also, maybe don't bring the cart when you go adventuring. Frankly, a cart is a wildly impractical thing to be lugging around if you're traveling anything other than a good-condition road between towns. It's big, it's nosy, and it's not something that can be dragged over uneven ground in the first place.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Does this mean a glass bottle is approximately as strong as a level 2 wizard? Arguably a very unlucky level 8 wizard can still be destroyed by being hit by a glass bottle?
A level 2 Wizard will have an average HP of 10 (assuming Con modifier of 0), a bottle would have half that at 5.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Assuming it is a sturdy, well built wooden cart, this is how I would treat it as a DM:
A cart officially counts as a Large object, being wooden and assuming it is well built and sturdy, it would have AC 15, 27 HP, and be immune to poison and psychic damage. It would typically fail all saving throws, but if you wanted to be generous you could treat it as having Str & Con 10, and simply fail all other saves.