Personally I would be reluctant to pay for the services of a DM.
One- There's no clear way of knowing the quality of a given DM's services, short of them establishing a solid reputation ahead of time.
Two- Even with a great DM, the players' dynamic might still make for a less than enjoyable experience, just like one can experience during a free game. It would suck to pay money, only to be disappointed because of the antics of fellow paying customers.
Three- When players are expected to pay for your, the DM's, services, the bar for your performance will be set much higher than with a friendly amateur-run game. You are now a professional in the eyes of the players, and forgiveness for failing to meet their expectations will not be forthcoming.
Four- I have not once been given more than a meal and/or a couple beers for my time as DM. I'm only willing to pay the same for another DM's time.
Totally fair response. I guess like any service, you can go by reviews, ask a lot of questions, and hold the professional accountable to what they said they would deliver.
I appreciate your perspective, though, and thank you for your time in responding (and filling out the survey if you did that as well).
Happy gaming to you!
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Writer • Podcaster • Professional Gamemaster
playing Jin Wei, human (Kara-tur) way of the Four Elements Monk in the Princes of the Apocalypse
The thing about paid DMing is that it transforms the experience type from "hanging out with friends" to "paid entertainment". Which means it has to compete within the paid entertainment category, and it really can't because the model is so very inefficient; it's the same business model as other professional entertainers like stand-up comics.. except you're hiring them twice a month to entertain five people instead of once a year to entertain fifty. Now, there are people who would consider that a reasonable expense... but they're the 1% or even the 0.1%.
The thing about paid DMing is that it transforms the experience type from "hanging out with friends" to "paid entertainment". Which means it has to compete within the paid entertainment category, and it really can't because the model is so very inefficient; it's the same business model as other professional entertainers like stand-up comics.. except you're hiring them twice a month to entertain five people instead of once a year to entertain fifty. Now, there are people who would consider that a reasonable expense... but they're the 1% or even the 0.1%.
I think this is a bit of an unsupported exaggeration - the fact there are plenty of pie DMs out there catering to regular folks kind of undermines the this is for the 1%” crowd. There have been plenty of news articles from real, non-gaming journalism sources covering this trend, indicating it is common enough to garner attention of more mainstream sources.
Plus, the numbers probably are not that bad - a group of four players each paying 10 an hour means the DM is making $40 per hour. A three hour session puts each player back $30–that is a movie ticket and snacks; of maybe two cocktails; or lawn seats at a smaller-venue concert; or a large pizza and a side; or an okay food spread you might put out for your regular D&D game anyway; etc. Hardly that out of the ordinary for a once or twice per month expenditure.
Now, does that price some folks out of hiring a paid DM? Sure. But “the 1%” in the colloquial usage (top 1% in the United States) make something like $650,000 per year—and you can bet plenty of the folks hiring DMs are making a heck of a lot less than that per year.
Perhaps if you meant the global top 1%—making $60,000 per year puts you at that figure—your numbers might work a bit better, but that is still not a great data point, as it includes billions who are not going to have access to D&D anyway. And, unless you are Wizards (who does surveys on player salaries), I do not think you have enough data to make any kind of conjecture on the top 1% of D&D players. So, really, no matter how you slice it, your claim about paid DMing only being reasonable to “the 1%” really does not hold much merit.
(I will note, I am in the “never hire” crowd; I figure if no one else wants to do it, I will DM and this never need to pay someone else. However, as far as entertainment expenses go, I can see this being something fairly commensurate with other popular entertainment options, so I am not willing to dismiss it as unreasonable or unobtainable.)
One- There's no clear way of knowing the quality of a given DM's services, short of them establishing a solid reputation ahead of time.
While you can't predict a stranger's quality or compatibility with you 100% accurately, platforms like Startplaying and Meetup do contain ratings systems, reviews and testimonials you can look through before you join a table.
Two- Even with a great DM, the players' dynamic might still make for a less than enjoyable experience, just like one can experience during a free game. It would suck to pay money, only to be disappointed because of the antics of fellow paying customers.
Three- When players are expected to pay for your, the DM's, services, the bar for your performance will be set much higher than with a friendly amateur-run game. You are now a professional in the eyes of the players, and forgiveness for failing to meet their expectations will not be forthcoming.
I would imagine that if you ran into some kind of challenge the paid DM couldn't resolve to your satisfaction, that they would offer at least a partial refund. Again, this is where platforms with reviews and ratings come in handy, as those sorts of systems incentivize decent customer service.
As far as disruptive players, I'd actually expect that to be less common in a paid scenario, considering everyone else is paying to be there just like you.
The thing about paid DMing is that it transforms the experience type from "hanging out with friends" to "paid entertainment". Which means it has to compete within the paid entertainment category, and it really can't because the model is so very inefficient; it's the same business model as other professional entertainers like stand-up comics.. except you're hiring them twice a month to entertain five people instead of once a year to entertain fifty. Now, there are people who would consider that a reasonable expense... but they're the 1% or even the 0.1%.
I agree, online games just aren't the same (to me) and money makes people weird (well documented). I would rather sit through an in person one shot, than feel the need to nope out of the same one shot played online. Adventures and campaigns would seem to amplify this to me (personal experience in other hobbies). I do play with a few people that love pay to play online games and one or two that have been invited to an in-person paid DM game (they said it was awesome) though they viewed it as a treat / limited type game not a regular thing, but super fun. Personally I have not tried it, but with all of the tech improving I will not lie I am tempted though not tempted enough, I guess I am blessed with enough friends to keep me in enough games that I haven't had to learn the ways of the online side. Hope I never do, but glad it is an option for people not in my situation.
To me online D&D = payed DM, I know it isn't the only option, I just can't see not paying a DM if I'm gonna play online.
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CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
The thing about paid DMing is that it transforms the experience type from "hanging out with friends" to "paid entertainment". Which means it has to compete within the paid entertainment category, and it really can't because the model is so very inefficient; it's the same business model as other professional entertainers like stand-up comics.. except you're hiring them twice a month to entertain five people instead of once a year to entertain fifty. Now, there are people who would consider that a reasonable expense... but they're the 1% or even the 0.1%.
I think this is a bit of an unsupported exaggeration - the fact there are plenty of pie DMs out there catering to regular folks kind of undermines the this is for the 1%” crowd. There have been plenty of news articles from real, non-gaming journalism sources covering this trend, indicating it is common enough to garner attention of more mainstream sources.
Plus, the numbers probably are not that bad - a group of four players each paying 10 an hour means the DM is making $40 per hour. A three hour session puts each player back $30–that is a movie ticket and snacks; of maybe two cocktails; or lawn seats at a smaller-venue concert; or a large pizza and a side; or an okay food spread you might put out for your regular D&D game anyway; etc. Hardly that out of the ordinary for a once or twice per month expenditure.
Now, does that price some folks out of hiring a paid DM? Sure. But “the 1%” in the colloquial usage (top 1% in the United States) make something like $650,000 per year—and you can bet plenty of the folks hiring DMs are making a heck of a lot less than that per year.
Perhaps if you meant the global top 1%—making $60,000 per year puts you at that figure—your numbers might work a bit better, but that is still not a great data point, as it includes billions who are not going to have access to D&D anyway. And, unless you are Wizards (who does surveys on player salaries), I do not think you have enough data to make any kind of conjecture on the top 1% of D&D players. So, really, no matter how you slice it, your claim about paid DMing only being reasonable to “the 1%” really does not hold much merit.
(I will note, I am in the “never hire” crowd; I figure if no one else wants to do it, I will DM and this never need to pay someone else. However, as far as entertainment expenses go, I can see this being something fairly commensurate with other popular entertainment options, so I am not willing to dismiss it as unreasonable or unobtainable.)
Interesting numbers you chose to use.
"Plus, the numbers probably are not that bad - a group of four players each paying 10 an hour means the DM is making $40 per hour. A three hour session puts each player back $30–that is a movie ticket and snacks; of maybe two cocktails; or lawn seats at a smaller-venue concert; or a large pizza and a side; or an okay food spread you might put out for your regular D&D game anyway; etc. Hardly that out of the ordinary for a once or twice per month expenditure."
Everyone I play with plays because they refuse to pay $30/person a night for "entertainment" be it drinks, pizza, concerts, or fast food and a parking lot or D&D. Our sessions also go way over 3 hrs/session and at least twice a month, lucky I guess, but supply and demand/anecdotal et al.
If I had the money to pay one I would. I've done paid DMing myself and I'm honestly always a tad bit confused how literally hostile outside-folks can be to the idea. Especially the wild assumptions & arguments folks make to justify harassing a poor paid DM who had the audacity to advertise in an LFG channel nearby lol.
The thing about paid DMing is that it transforms the experience type from "hanging out with friends" to "paid entertainment". Which means it has to compete within the paid entertainment category, and it really can't because the model is so very inefficient; it's the same business model as other professional entertainers like stand-up comics.. except you're hiring them twice a month to entertain five people instead of once a year to entertain fifty. Now, there are people who would consider that a reasonable expense... but they're the 1% or even the 0.1%.
This post odd to me, as it presumes (at least in the first sentence) that it's your friends who are suddenly charging you. I doubt that happens with any frequency, let alone ends well when it does. It's also odd because the baseline acceptable price I've seen floated around (no accounting for outstanding & outlier expenses like terrain, minis, etc) is about, $15-20 per person, per session. If it's weekly that's just $60-80 bucks for one player. The average American spends around ~$50 on (just) video streaming services (Average of 4 services), and around ~$70 on a cable package (if applicable).
A single person who personally tailors an experience to your wishes (& that of ~3-ish other people if applicable), potentially in-person, potentially with pretty terrain/maps/other decor, potentially with other real life players, all whilst you play a fun game where you pretend to be elves, is definitely a reasonable expense & different enough that it catches a niche that none of the other popular entertainment mediums can offer.
I would pay to play with Matt Colville, or Matthew Mercer, or Deborah Ann Woll, or Chris Perkins or my friends if it will get them together more often.
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"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
A search of this forum would show that paid DMing is a contentious topic, at least on this forum. If you really want to understand the paid gaming space, you're best off researching the LFGs here that are paid, that will show you what is actually popular and what people are paying. Start Playing Games as a I believe entirely paid GMing site will give you a much broader perspective.
Basically, paid gaming is a thing, D&D Beyond Forums don't discuss it much so if you were really trying to research the issue it's probably better to check out the actual paid gaming venues, organizing spaces. Not to mention that there is a gamut of "paid gaming" where what you'd expect for a $5 ticket is not what you'd expect from a $35 ticket.
This post odd to me, as it presumes (at least in the first sentence) that it's your friends who are suddenly charging you. I doubt that happens with any frequency, let alone ends well when it does. It's also odd because the baseline acceptable price I've seen floated around (no accounting for outstanding & outlier expenses like terrain, minis, etc) is about, $15-20 per person, per session.
No, I was assuming you're hiring someone. The issue is that those prices of $15-20 per person per session simply isn't professional scale or even close, which means what you're getting is hobbyists trying to supplement income or offset expenses. Which is fine as long as you don't expect quality, but it's still pretty expensive for basic entertainment.
As I've explained in the past, paid DMing makes sense. It's a significant effort and sacrifice. Most of us are busy. It makes sense to make the proposition with the offer of compensation. To be blunt, if someone on here wanted me to DM, I'd want to be paid or compensated in some way. Not necessarily a lot, but something to make me give up my time I'd allotted for something I've already decided I wanted to be doing more than DMing. If I wanted to DM another game for free...I'd already be doing it.
On the other hand, as a player, I have to admit that I won't pay. I've been looking for games on TOR and STA (I already have a campaign for D&D so it's not such a priority), and found myself rejecting outright any game that is demanding money. After a little soul searching as to why, these are some of my thoughts (in no particular order):
It's expensive. One of the advantages to D&D is that once you're over the initial investment, it's as cheap as chips. A few hundred hours in and it's almost free, certainly compared to other entertainment. When you're paying for a DM...all of a sudden it's cheaper to go to the cinema or buy a DVD. A month of D&D for one person pays for a year's streaming subscription (well, used to, Disney put their prices up, two months certainly covers it).
My experience as a player is...variable. Actually, no, it's not, and it would be better if it were. I've had three campaigns with a non family DM, and all three fell through. I jumped ship on one because of DM style, and it fell apart about three months later. The other two fell apart. Given that part of all three falling part was due to financial reasons of the players, quadrupling (or more) the costs doesn't inspire me with confidence.
Sometimes they offer free taster sessions. Except, it's a significant investment (in terms of time and energy) to come up with a new character, to the point that I'm wary of joining even free ones. So I'm going in with the mentality that I might not be staying, which means less commitment to me...which decreases the likelihood that I will enjoy it and stay. Literally, the philosophy of offering taster sessions form the DM's PoV (get them to commit time and effort and they're more likely to stay) puts me off.
I've got a lot of demands on my money. Paying someone else to play a game when I'm putting my kids in second hand clothes and debating whether should go on holiday this year or not feels...off.
Does that mean I don't get to play D&S as a player? At the moment, it's voluntary. I could get another of my D&D group to DM once this campaign ends...but even if I couldn't...it doesn't bother me. I'm not sure at what point I would consider paying, but it's not a need, so...
Which isn't to say a DM shouldn't be compensated. If someone DM'd for me, if get them gifts. But gifts are very different to wages.
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If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
As a DM I would never want to run a game for strangers, as part of the fun of the game is having that trust of storytelling between friends in my opinion. For that reason, I wouldn't want to get paid as a DM - I wouldn't want to charge my friends more than some snacks and maybe a drink.
On the player side, if I were to pay for a DM, I would need assurances in place that the game were up to the standards of payment. I'd want some form of guaranteeing my money back if the experience is poor. But overall that's a bad attitude to go into DND with as a whole, so I guess I'm out completely when it comes to paid DMing.
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I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
The only way I would ever consider paying to play is if the DM ran the table with an iron fist and vetted the players to my satisfaction beforehand.
I just quit an unpaid game after giving it about 15 hours of gameplay (4 sessions) because half the characters would not actually muck in to form a cohesive group. The rogue had decided it was his mission to work against the party and the barbarian was a strong, silent loner type who went out of his way to avoid the rest of us, using his alignment as an excuse—literally said “chaotic, *****es” at one point after walking away from the tavern where the rest of us were waiting for him. They both stole from the party and refused to share information they had learned that the rest of us knew they knew but could not act on without metagaming. We did nothing to advance the overarching story in those 15 or so hours I played because we spent so much time cajoling the rogue and barbarian to just bloody well play with us. It was a game in progress so they had been doing all of this before I joined. Presumably, they are still doing it to some other poor sucker now that I’ve left because the DM did nothing OOC to put an end to their behaviour.
I also play a lot of pick up games at the FLGS and the number of players who have no problem making the entire event all about them and their character at the expense of other people’s enjoyment is appalling. Many seem to think that is the way the game is meant to be played; the table is their captive audience and most people are too polite to censure them. These players don’t think that they are being disruptive so the idea that you wouldn’t get disruptive players simply because everyone has paid is a non-starter IMHO. Worse, some of them are bound to feel they deserve to have the entire game revolve around them having paid for it given that they feel this way even when no money is involved. I’m willing to endure a lot of garbage behaviour at free games but I’m not paying to have some creepy dude playing a druid go on suggestively about his tentacles at every opportunity for the rest of the session after wildshaping into an octopus.
I can't see myself paying for a paid DM game... that's also because the bulk of them are online and I can think of all the problems that could happen (in addition to the ones that I've read or heard about) and I would personally just rather spend my time elsewhere. That does not mean I judge those who pay for them or those who host (although I do think some of the prices are what I would consider ridiculous... but that would be another reason why I'm not one of the ones searching out paid games).
I do think DM's "should" be compensated for friends games with small gestures.... either buy bringing some snacks, some drinks, etc... granted if folks don't I'm not going to waste time judging because I don't know the situation... for example when I was taking a turn DMing for my friends.. I was the one bringing the food for the most part (however, depending on what house we were in there could be snacks to be had... and thats mostly because one of the houses just never had actual snack like things). It also really comes down to the group you are playing with..
I have played with Cast Party in one of their Free Monthly games, and it was great.
They are a group of entertainers (actors, musicians, ect. from the NYC area) that play D&D and set up some pretty elaborate sessions that you can pay to play.
If you want to see what they are charging, check out their site: Cast Party
I found out about them through a friend that is a musician in NYC and I found out also plays D&D.
Just passing along some info on the topic of the thread :)
Cheers!
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Breathe, dragons; sing of the First World, forged out of chaos and painted with beauty. Sing of Bahamut, the Platinum, molding the shape of the mountains and rivers; Sing too of Chromatic Tiamat, painting all over the infinite canvas. Partnered, they woke in the darkness; partnered, they labored in acts of creation.
I have some mixed feelings about it, that have little to do with a lot of the common type of commentary.
D&D is a hobby. Hobbies have been turned into side gigs and main gigs since people first started calling a regular job a hobby. The idea of charging someone to pay you to have fun is cool by me, and all that.
I am only a DM. I have DMed for my core group forever, but I have also played with hundreds of other people over the years;p sometimes for a single session, sometimes for a short lived campaign, all the usual stuff. I've had open games in sandbox worlds and open games in endless dungeons.
I am deeply unlikely to ever do a game for pay because I see way too many tales of what those games are like from the negative side of things. That is, I see the bad experiences, I see the failure to provide value for exchange, and I see people who are doing what people always do when it comes to something that can get them money: taking advantage of folks.
That gives me pause. To me, there needs to be a set of rules and guidelines and common expectations -- and ideally some way to sanction those who break those rules that has strong consequences for such. Hard to do unless someone creates some kind of special group and establishes ground rules and all that.
I also don't see a lot of interest in doing so for custom worlds -- which, given it me, is naturally a big concern of mine, lol. Not really something that is ultimately going to sway anything, but it is something to keep in mind that most folks who are DMing and love it are using a custom creation, a world that no one is familiar with, and that means some serious stuff about htat.
Lastly, when it comes to "payment", I always look at the underlying basis of things: I might not do it for money, for example, but I could be convinced to do it for charity, or for a group that I feel would appreciate the time, energy, and effort that is put into something.
I have DMed for food, lol. I have been a DM to have a place to crash at night, and DMed in order to pay back someone for letting me crash on a couch when traveling for work. In my view, all of those things count as being paid for DMing.
And I will continue to do that -- but to enter a "market" for such, without ground rules, where bad actors are already known to exist is not my idea of a good time.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
I never pay for a DM's services. There are just to many free ones around here to worry about finding a new game to join. Plus we are just a group of friends who get together once a week to play anything. If our D&D GM does not want to GM that day we can each step in and GM a different rpg game. We have 4 different games going now. Plus any board games we can think of to just fill the time.
The only game we pay anything for is D&DB, master tier access for the DM. He pays for that and we bring the food every week end.
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Looking for some feedback on whether you'd pay for a DM, what kind of format you're interested in, and what your favorite pre-written campaigns are.
Also feel free to drop me a note with additional thoughts on the subject.
Writer • Podcaster • Professional Gamemaster
playing Jin Wei, human (Kara-tur) way of the Four Elements Monk in the Princes of the Apocalypse
Personally I would be reluctant to pay for the services of a DM.
One- There's no clear way of knowing the quality of a given DM's services, short of them establishing a solid reputation ahead of time.
Two- Even with a great DM, the players' dynamic might still make for a less than enjoyable experience, just like one can experience during a free game. It would suck to pay money, only to be disappointed because of the antics of fellow paying customers.
Three- When players are expected to pay for your, the DM's, services, the bar for your performance will be set much higher than with a friendly amateur-run game. You are now a professional in the eyes of the players, and forgiveness for failing to meet their expectations will not be forthcoming.
Four- I have not once been given more than a meal and/or a couple beers for my time as DM. I'm only willing to pay the same for another DM's time.
Totally fair response. I guess like any service, you can go by reviews, ask a lot of questions, and hold the professional accountable to what they said they would deliver.
I appreciate your perspective, though, and thank you for your time in responding (and filling out the survey if you did that as well).
Happy gaming to you!
Writer • Podcaster • Professional Gamemaster
playing Jin Wei, human (Kara-tur) way of the Four Elements Monk in the Princes of the Apocalypse
The thing about paid DMing is that it transforms the experience type from "hanging out with friends" to "paid entertainment". Which means it has to compete within the paid entertainment category, and it really can't because the model is so very inefficient; it's the same business model as other professional entertainers like stand-up comics.. except you're hiring them twice a month to entertain five people instead of once a year to entertain fifty. Now, there are people who would consider that a reasonable expense... but they're the 1% or even the 0.1%.
I think this is a bit of an unsupported exaggeration - the fact there are plenty of pie DMs out there catering to regular folks kind of undermines the this is for the 1%” crowd. There have been plenty of news articles from real, non-gaming journalism sources covering this trend, indicating it is common enough to garner attention of more mainstream sources.
Plus, the numbers probably are not that bad - a group of four players each paying 10 an hour means the DM is making $40 per hour. A three hour session puts each player back $30–that is a movie ticket and snacks; of maybe two cocktails; or lawn seats at a smaller-venue concert; or a large pizza and a side; or an okay food spread you might put out for your regular D&D game anyway; etc. Hardly that out of the ordinary for a once or twice per month expenditure.
Now, does that price some folks out of hiring a paid DM? Sure. But “the 1%” in the colloquial usage (top 1% in the United States) make something like $650,000 per year—and you can bet plenty of the folks hiring DMs are making a heck of a lot less than that per year.
Perhaps if you meant the global top 1%—making $60,000 per year puts you at that figure—your numbers might work a bit better, but that is still not a great data point, as it includes billions who are not going to have access to D&D anyway. And, unless you are Wizards (who does surveys on player salaries), I do not think you have enough data to make any kind of conjecture on the top 1% of D&D players. So, really, no matter how you slice it, your claim about paid DMing only being reasonable to “the 1%” really does not hold much merit.
(I will note, I am in the “never hire” crowd; I figure if no one else wants to do it, I will DM and this never need to pay someone else. However, as far as entertainment expenses go, I can see this being something fairly commensurate with other popular entertainment options, so I am not willing to dismiss it as unreasonable or unobtainable.)
While you can't predict a stranger's quality or compatibility with you 100% accurately, platforms like Startplaying and Meetup do contain ratings systems, reviews and testimonials you can look through before you join a table.
I would imagine that if you ran into some kind of challenge the paid DM couldn't resolve to your satisfaction, that they would offer at least a partial refund. Again, this is where platforms with reviews and ratings come in handy, as those sorts of systems incentivize decent customer service.
As far as disruptive players, I'd actually expect that to be less common in a paid scenario, considering everyone else is paying to be there just like you.
And that's fair and entirely your prerogative! Only you can determine the worth of your time, and the market can only respond accordingly.
I agree, online games just aren't the same (to me) and money makes people weird (well documented). I would rather sit through an in person one shot, than feel the need to nope out of the same one shot played online. Adventures and campaigns would seem to amplify this to me (personal experience in other hobbies). I do play with a few people that love pay to play online games and one or two that have been invited to an in-person paid DM game (they said it was awesome) though they viewed it as a treat / limited type game not a regular thing, but super fun. Personally I have not tried it, but with all of the tech improving I will not lie I am tempted though not tempted enough, I guess I am blessed with enough friends to keep me in enough games that I haven't had to learn the ways of the online side. Hope I never do, but glad it is an option for people not in my situation.
To me online D&D = payed DM, I know it isn't the only option, I just can't see not paying a DM if I'm gonna play online.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
Interesting numbers you chose to use.
"Plus, the numbers probably are not that bad - a group of four players each paying 10 an hour means the DM is making $40 per hour. A three hour session puts each player back $30–that is a movie ticket and snacks; of maybe two cocktails; or lawn seats at a smaller-venue concert; or a large pizza and a side; or an okay food spread you might put out for your regular D&D game anyway; etc. Hardly that out of the ordinary for a once or twice per month expenditure."
Everyone I play with plays because they refuse to pay $30/person a night for "entertainment" be it drinks, pizza, concerts, or fast food and a parking lot or D&D. Our sessions also go way over 3 hrs/session and at least twice a month, lucky I guess, but supply and demand/anecdotal et al.
CENSORSHIP IS THE TOOL OF COWARDS and WANNA BE TYRANTS.
If I had the money to pay one I would. I've done paid DMing myself and I'm honestly always a tad bit confused how literally hostile outside-folks can be to the idea. Especially the wild assumptions & arguments folks make to justify harassing a poor paid DM who had the audacity to advertise in an LFG channel nearby lol.
This post odd to me, as it presumes (at least in the first sentence) that it's your friends who are suddenly charging you. I doubt that happens with any frequency, let alone ends well when it does. It's also odd because the baseline acceptable price I've seen floated around (no accounting for outstanding & outlier expenses like terrain, minis, etc) is about, $15-20 per person, per session. If it's weekly that's just $60-80 bucks for one player. The average American spends around ~$50 on (just) video streaming services (Average of 4 services), and around ~$70 on a cable package (if applicable).
A single person who personally tailors an experience to your wishes (& that of ~3-ish other people if applicable), potentially in-person, potentially with pretty terrain/maps/other decor, potentially with other real life players, all whilst you play a fun game where you pretend to be elves, is definitely a reasonable expense & different enough that it catches a niche that none of the other popular entertainment mediums can offer.
Er ek geng, þat er í þeim skóm er ek valda.
UwU
I would pay to play with Matt Colville, or Matthew Mercer, or Deborah Ann Woll, or Chris Perkins or my friends if it will get them together more often.
"Sooner or later, your Players are going to smash your railroad into a sandbox."
-Vedexent
"real life is a super high CR."
-OboeLauren
"............anybody got any potatoes? We could drop a potato in each hole an' see which ones get viciously mauled by horrible monsters?"
-Ilyara Thundertale
A search of this forum would show that paid DMing is a contentious topic, at least on this forum. If you really want to understand the paid gaming space, you're best off researching the LFGs here that are paid, that will show you what is actually popular and what people are paying. Start Playing Games as a I believe entirely paid GMing site will give you a much broader perspective.
Basically, paid gaming is a thing, D&D Beyond Forums don't discuss it much so if you were really trying to research the issue it's probably better to check out the actual paid gaming venues, organizing spaces. Not to mention that there is a gamut of "paid gaming" where what you'd expect for a $5 ticket is not what you'd expect from a $35 ticket.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
No, I was assuming you're hiring someone. The issue is that those prices of $15-20 per person per session simply isn't professional scale or even close, which means what you're getting is hobbyists trying to supplement income or offset expenses. Which is fine as long as you don't expect quality, but it's still pretty expensive for basic entertainment.
This is one of those awkward subjects for me.
As I've explained in the past, paid DMing makes sense. It's a significant effort and sacrifice. Most of us are busy. It makes sense to make the proposition with the offer of compensation. To be blunt, if someone on here wanted me to DM, I'd want to be paid or compensated in some way. Not necessarily a lot, but something to make me give up my time I'd allotted for something I've already decided I wanted to be doing more than DMing. If I wanted to DM another game for free...I'd already be doing it.
On the other hand, as a player, I have to admit that I won't pay. I've been looking for games on TOR and STA (I already have a campaign for D&D so it's not such a priority), and found myself rejecting outright any game that is demanding money. After a little soul searching as to why, these are some of my thoughts (in no particular order):
Does that mean I don't get to play D&S as a player? At the moment, it's voluntary. I could get another of my D&D group to DM once this campaign ends...but even if I couldn't...it doesn't bother me. I'm not sure at what point I would consider paying, but it's not a need, so...
Which isn't to say a DM shouldn't be compensated. If someone DM'd for me, if get them gifts. But gifts are very different to wages.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
As a DM I would never want to run a game for strangers, as part of the fun of the game is having that trust of storytelling between friends in my opinion. For that reason, I wouldn't want to get paid as a DM - I wouldn't want to charge my friends more than some snacks and maybe a drink.
On the player side, if I were to pay for a DM, I would need assurances in place that the game were up to the standards of payment. I'd want some form of guaranteeing my money back if the experience is poor. But overall that's a bad attitude to go into DND with as a whole, so I guess I'm out completely when it comes to paid DMing.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
The only way I would ever consider paying to play is if the DM ran the table with an iron fist and vetted the players to my satisfaction beforehand.
I just quit an unpaid game after giving it about 15 hours of gameplay (4 sessions) because half the characters would not actually muck in to form a cohesive group. The rogue had decided it was his mission to work against the party and the barbarian was a strong, silent loner type who went out of his way to avoid the rest of us, using his alignment as an excuse—literally said “chaotic, *****es” at one point after walking away from the tavern where the rest of us were waiting for him. They both stole from the party and refused to share information they had learned that the rest of us knew they knew but could not act on without metagaming. We did nothing to advance the overarching story in those 15 or so hours I played because we spent so much time cajoling the rogue and barbarian to just bloody well play with us. It was a game in progress so they had been doing all of this before I joined. Presumably, they are still doing it to some other poor sucker now that I’ve left because the DM did nothing OOC to put an end to their behaviour.
I also play a lot of pick up games at the FLGS and the number of players who have no problem making the entire event all about them and their character at the expense of other people’s enjoyment is appalling. Many seem to think that is the way the game is meant to be played; the table is their captive audience and most people are too polite to censure them. These players don’t think that they are being disruptive so the idea that you wouldn’t get disruptive players simply because everyone has paid is a non-starter IMHO. Worse, some of them are bound to feel they deserve to have the entire game revolve around them having paid for it given that they feel this way even when no money is involved. I’m willing to endure a lot of garbage behaviour at free games but I’m not paying to have some creepy dude playing a druid go on suggestively about his tentacles at every opportunity for the rest of the session after wildshaping into an octopus.
I can't see myself paying for a paid DM game... that's also because the bulk of them are online and I can think of all the problems that could happen (in addition to the ones that I've read or heard about) and I would personally just rather spend my time elsewhere. That does not mean I judge those who pay for them or those who host (although I do think some of the prices are what I would consider ridiculous... but that would be another reason why I'm not one of the ones searching out paid games).
I do think DM's "should" be compensated for friends games with small gestures.... either buy bringing some snacks, some drinks, etc... granted if folks don't I'm not going to waste time judging because I don't know the situation... for example when I was taking a turn DMing for my friends.. I was the one bringing the food for the most part (however, depending on what house we were in there could be snacks to be had... and thats mostly because one of the houses just never had actual snack like things). It also really comes down to the group you are playing with..
I have played with Cast Party in one of their Free Monthly games, and it was great.
They are a group of entertainers (actors, musicians, ect. from the NYC area) that play D&D and set up some pretty elaborate sessions that you can pay to play.
If you want to see what they are charging, check out their site: Cast Party
I found out about them through a friend that is a musician in NYC and I found out also plays D&D.
Just passing along some info on the topic of the thread :)
Cheers!
Breathe, dragons; sing of the First World, forged out of chaos and painted with beauty.
Sing of Bahamut, the Platinum, molding the shape of the mountains and rivers;
Sing too of Chromatic Tiamat, painting all over the infinite canvas.
Partnered, they woke in the darkness; partnered, they labored in acts of creation.
Great discussion and quite helpful! Thanks everyone!
I'm particularly excited about the rating of the campaigns. At first Curse of Strahd was behind Avernus, but now it is in the lead (not a shock).
Writer • Podcaster • Professional Gamemaster
playing Jin Wei, human (Kara-tur) way of the Four Elements Monk in the Princes of the Apocalypse
I have some mixed feelings about it, that have little to do with a lot of the common type of commentary.
D&D is a hobby. Hobbies have been turned into side gigs and main gigs since people first started calling a regular job a hobby. The idea of charging someone to pay you to have fun is cool by me, and all that.
I am only a DM. I have DMed for my core group forever, but I have also played with hundreds of other people over the years;p sometimes for a single session, sometimes for a short lived campaign, all the usual stuff. I've had open games in sandbox worlds and open games in endless dungeons.
I am deeply unlikely to ever do a game for pay because I see way too many tales of what those games are like from the negative side of things. That is, I see the bad experiences, I see the failure to provide value for exchange, and I see people who are doing what people always do when it comes to something that can get them money: taking advantage of folks.
That gives me pause. To me, there needs to be a set of rules and guidelines and common expectations -- and ideally some way to sanction those who break those rules that has strong consequences for such. Hard to do unless someone creates some kind of special group and establishes ground rules and all that.
I also don't see a lot of interest in doing so for custom worlds -- which, given it me, is naturally a big concern of mine, lol. Not really something that is ultimately going to sway anything, but it is something to keep in mind that most folks who are DMing and love it are using a custom creation, a world that no one is familiar with, and that means some serious stuff about htat.
Lastly, when it comes to "payment", I always look at the underlying basis of things: I might not do it for money, for example, but I could be convinced to do it for charity, or for a group that I feel would appreciate the time, energy, and effort that is put into something.
I have DMed for food, lol. I have been a DM to have a place to crash at night, and DMed in order to pay back someone for letting me crash on a couch when traveling for work. In my view, all of those things count as being paid for DMing.
And I will continue to do that -- but to enter a "market" for such, without ground rules, where bad actors are already known to exist is not my idea of a good time.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
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Did not fill out the survey. Never do.
I never pay for a DM's services. There are just to many free ones around here to worry about finding a new game to join. Plus we are just a group of friends who get together once a week to play anything. If our D&D GM does not want to GM that day we can each step in and GM a different rpg game.
We have 4 different games going now. Plus any board games we can think of to just fill the time.
The only game we pay anything for is D&DB, master tier access for the DM. He pays for that and we bring the food every week end.