So thinking about players and DMs experiences and thoughts are of a campaign where the player characters are intended and the campaign is based around, then being a part of  wider story and, the great Hero/s are all NPCs. 

To give an example a campaign based on the idea that Non of the players will ever get the ring to mount doom, that is an NPC, the players are part of a story loosely or not even connected to that. 

Or from the wheel of time the player characters are not part of the Dragon Reborn and his final fight with the dark lord, instead there story runs in the same timeline but ultimately does not impact that great good vs evil battle. 

Was going to ask this in the DMs section but intrigued about players experiences and thoughts as well. 

So my question, 

Have you ever run or been part of a campaign where the ultimate fight between hero and BBEG was unconnected to your campaign, where you were aware of it happening but your own party story was far smaller and just a part of a bigger picture. As a player did you feel cheated and, as a DM how did you stop that wider story feeling like a railroad? 

As a GM you would have to drop clues to the players that they are not Frodo. But why would you do that? The Party is focused on getting the villagers away from warg riders, they don't even know there is a ring bearer. They would only know if you told them and why do that?

Make the main conflict so absurdly out of their league that they can't honestly think they can take the spotlight. Like, Prime Superman Versus Darksied on a cosmic level. If the gods are causing planets to explode, it becomes a backdrop and environmental hazard, rather than a real part of the story. Your "Heroes" can then be responsible for all of the normal drama that the A-listers are too busy to do. They can save the planet from world ending threats while everyone else is focused on saving the fabric of reality.

If you want the main conflict to be more approachable, then you need to provide a reason why the party wouldn't want to get involved. For example, do a non-good Suicide Squad-style adventure where the "Heroes" being distracted means they have free reign to do things they otherwise couldn't. Frame it as an opportunity to shine.

Not sure if this answers any questions you might have, but I'll give my 2 cents.

Yes, I've been a part of it on both sides of the screen - player and DM. Here's a few things to chew on that might give you confidence; whatever way you go with it.

• The world is massive and the story is small. Large scale teleportation is not available and a journey to a nearby baker for wheat is an all-night adventure filled with danger. It takes a week to get things done because they're moving slowly - 15 - 20 miles per day, preferably only by daylight. They don't worry about large scale threats because they don't know about them; no one in their hamlet does. For this group, a larger than necessary spider haunting the nearby trees is enough to drive many nights of adventure.
  • At some point, this group levels up. They start to wander off the beaten path, come upon a haunted grove and maybe even a dungeon. They learn of a big bad guy that wants to use the haunted grove as a lair. The group has mounts now so they head north to the Old Abbey to gain council with a hermit. 
    • As they level up, they learn more and become invested in the big picture, world-ending storyline. You don't railroad them; it's just a natural progression as they level, gain power, and resources (magic, allies, information, etc.)
• Another take is to keep things small all the time. The big cosmos altering story is not about them but they know of it. It's the groups responsibility to handle the little things. A guild of inventors and wizards is building the giant laser that's going to shoot Kravixthrax the Sky Cinder out of the sky. If they don't shoot the Cosmic Dragon down, he'll consume the world! The PCs have no business with such a thing; that's up to the guild of inventors and wizards..BUT, the PCs can spend an entire campaign running quests for nearby dwarves that are supplying the guild with materials needed to build the laser.
  • In this manner, the group is involved indirectly and their actions matter, but they don't actually get to be on the battlemat with the Cosmic Dragon (though that would've been cool!)

There's always plenty to be done in a massive war between Good and Evil.  The Ultimate Hero might be facing down with the Supreme Evil, but that means that they're not going to be able to do things like stopping the Supreme Evil's army of Daemonic Abominations from ravaging the land. You still need other adventurers to step up and take on the tasks of rescuing civilians, breaking sieges, assassinating powerful members of the Army of Evil and other such jobs to insure that once the Supreme Evil is dead there's still people around to make the victory matter.

I’ve not played in one, but it seems like it would be unsatisfying unless it was handled very well.

For example, if it was Star Wars rebels, where they are playing a part of the larger narrative, but you don’t really meet anyone from the movies (I guess lando was in a couple) even though we know they’re running around. That can work. The party can still be the heroes and make a instrumental contributions. The story is still about them.

But I wouldn’t want to be Wedge on the Death Star run. Just nearby and watching the “real” hero do their thing. 

Any world where the DM and/or players are creating the world and deciding the background events tends towards a situation where the PCs are involved in major events in a significant way.  There's a level of effort involved in the creation process and people will tend towards having that effort be seen in play. 

If you instead use a setting with an established world and events, it becomes far more likely that the PCs will only be involved in the events that get created for them.

Quote from Scarloc_Stormcall >>

So thinking about players and DMs experiences and thoughts are of a campaign where the player characters are intended and the campaign is based around, then being a part of  wider story and, the great Hero/s are all NPCs. 

To give an example a campaign based on the idea that Non of the players will ever get the ring to mount doom, that is an NPC, the players are part of a story loosely or not even connected to that. 

Or from the wheel of time the player characters are not part of the Dragon Reborn and his final fight with the dark lord, instead there story runs in the same timeline but ultimately does not impact that great good vs evil battle. 

Was going to ask this in the DMs section but intrigued about players experiences and thoughts as well. 

So my question, 

Have you ever run or been part of a campaign where the ultimate fight between hero and BBEG was unconnected to your campaign, where you were aware of it happening but your own party story was far smaller and just a part of a bigger picture. As a player did you feel cheated and, as a DM how did you stop that wider story feeling like a railroad? 

If you don't want them to be at the center of the Ultimate Conflict, but also don't want the party to feel completely insignificant, remember the old "For want of a nail" rhyme (or the domino effect meme). Have the party, even if it's somewhat inadvertently, deprive the BBEG of that nail

Quote from Scarloc_Stormcall >>

So thinking about players and DMs experiences and thoughts are of a campaign where the player characters are intended and the campaign is based around, then being a part of  wider story and, the great Hero/s are all NPCs. 

To give an example a campaign based on the idea that Non of the players will ever get the ring to mount doom, that is an NPC, the players are part of a story loosely or not even connected to that. 

Or from the wheel of time the player characters are not part of the Dragon Reborn and his final fight with the dark lord, instead there story runs in the same timeline but ultimately does not impact that great good vs evil battle. 

Was going to ask this in the DMs section but intrigued about players experiences and thoughts as well. 

So my question, 

Have you ever run or been part of a campaign where the ultimate fight between hero and BBEG was unconnected to your campaign, where you were aware of it happening but your own party story was far smaller and just a part of a bigger picture. As a player did you feel cheated and, as a DM how did you stop that wider story feeling like a railroad? 

 I have no direct experience, but I do have some thoughts:

• If there's an epic conflict between good and evil going on, the players are going to go out of their way to get involved. By telling them it exists, you're telling them it's the primary conflict of the campaign, and they're likely going to be annoyed if they don't get to play.
• There are ways around that, but they're tricky without buy-in. If you make the conflict big enough, you can possibly make it satisfying. (Assistants to the Chosen One is not one to spring on them without advance buy-in. I don't think Chosen One stories work well in D&D to begin with.)
• Probably the best approach IMO is for there to not be a single conflict that everything revolves around. There's no single Bad Guy who needs stopping lest the world be plunged into darkness. Instead, the Kingdom of Quux is being threatened by the Lich King of the Dark Forest. A hundred miles away, evil cultists have secretly taken over a different kingdom, and these two plot lines will never interact. If you offer hooks to the players early, you develop the ones that they're interested in, and the rest are something they hear about in passing.

While you can't really have the party be the "extras" in the story, they just need to be the heroes of their area. Captain America didn't win WW2, at least not in the MCU, but he and his band were the heroes in their area.

I wouldn't make them sidekicks, or the mooks that just mop things up, they need to be the heroes of their story. However, it's absolutely fine to define their story as being a limited space in the grander story - you can be Captain America and his group, blowing up things and being heroic, without being the only actors or even the most important ones in the grander story.

Quote from Xalthu >>

I’ve not played in one, but it seems like it would be unsatisfying unless it was handled very well.

For example, if it was Star Wars rebels, where they are playing a part of the larger narrative, but you don’t really meet anyone from the movies (I guess lando was in a couple) even though we know they’re running around. That can work. The party can still be the heroes and make a instrumental contributions. The story is still about them.

But I wouldn’t want to be Wedge on the Death Star run. Just nearby and watching the “real” hero do their thing. 

think this is a good way off putting it

I haven't played or run one, but tropes that come to mind are murder hobo (evil) and unscrupulous mercenaries (neutral).

Of done this three different ways -

1) Rival Party

Had the players hear about this other amazing adventuring party. Whenever they complete an adventure they hear that this other party did something even better. eventually they meet the other group who are comprised of seemly perfect heroes. They are arrogant and sickeningly perfect. The next adventure they go on they near the final battle, only to find this group already beat them to the punch. By the end, the group truly HATE this rival party and will do almost anything to finally prove to the world and themselves, that they are better than them.

2) The Super Hero

The party are endlessly hearing of the incredible saviour/s defeating some massive threat. Perhaps an epic villain is leading a monstrous force towards the city. The party combat some minor force or do a minor task in helping the city when the villain appears in the city and slaughters the defenders who attack him. Suddenly the saviour/s appear and the citizens cheer. The party watch the battle as the hero initially wipes the floor with the villain but then, to the horror and disbelief of all watching, the villain slays the hero before their very eyes. The city is over run and the party are forced into hiding or captured. The heroes spend the rest of the campaign trying to free their country and defeat the villain (perhaps attempting to free the defeated hero or resurrect them only to find they are better equipped to defeat the villain on their own).

3) The Wrong Side

The group are soldier part of a heroic struggle against a monstrous foe, lead by a General of great renown. This could be a crusade or a nation defending its shores. As the war escalates, things become more apparent that things are not as black and white as they appear, and ultimately they are part of the wrong side. Perhaps they become deserters while the war rages on despite them. Perhaps they change sides?  Perhaps they adventure away from the war but regardless, the war changes everything around them?

The best way to do this is to pitch this idea to your players in session zero and explicitly tell them the concept is to have the players be a peripheral part of the wider narrative. Ask the players to come up with motivations for their characters that run tangentially but not fully congruent with the 'save the world' plot, to justify why they don't become more involved. 

I think player motivation for this will be a much bigger component to this concept than anything you can do as a DM, and unless you share this part of the pitch with them, they might not understand and keep trying to pursue the main plot thinking they're the heroes only to feel like they're being punished for it and swept aside in favor of your npc's.

Quote from Kotath >>

Quote from Linklite >>

While you can't really have the party be the "extras" in the story, they just need to be the heroes of their area. Captain America didn't win WW2, at least not in the MCU, but he and his band were the heroes in their area.

I wouldn't make them sidekicks, or the mooks that just mop things up, they need to be the heroes of their story. However, it's absolutely fine to define their story as being a limited space in the grander story - you can be Captain America and his group, blowing up things and being heroic, without being the only actors or even the most important ones in the grander story.

 

This is exactly what I was trying to get at. You know WW2 is happening around them and that there are heroic stories related to that happening all over the place. The PC's story is just one of them. It is an important one, but nevertheless, not the only one or even necessarily the most important, objectively.

 
It is worth noting that Captain America’s story was the most important one at that given point in history - be and his team were trying to stop the Nazis from deploying city-destroying weapons that would have instantly ended the war in their favour.  Additionally, it was heavily implied that Red Skull was the true BBEG of the Third Reich - or would have been if successful as he was planning on leveraging his success into overthrowing the Nazi party and taking over everything himself. 

That is probably the best way to do it if you are making a protracted campaign - have a BBEG who might not be the main BBEG, but who must be defeated for the greater war to be victorious, and who has enough of his own independent goals and motivations that the party feels they stopped a growing threat that was generally being ignored by folks focusing on the main BBEG.

This kind of setting can also work well for a one-shot or series of one-shots.  Sticking with WWII since it has such a massive body of culture to use, Saving Private Ryan is a good example of what could work for a one-shot.  That story is fairly insignificant in the greater scheme of things, but protecting the private is emotionally powerful by focusing on the very human, individual aspects of war.  Or The Bridge at Remagen, where it deals with a single objective (destroying a strategic bridge) that is important, but not grandiose.  Or Das Boot, and its story of some people just trying to survive and get home.  Or, to use a historical event which is 78 years old to this day, the seemingly suicide mission the 442nd Infantry Division successfully accomplished to liberate an encircled battalion.

You could actually make a pretty interesting “campaign” where you tell the story of a conflict through anecdotes—you run a series of one-shots where the players step into different characters each session, seeing all the different fronts of the conflict and how it unfolds not through the eyes of a single character, but through an anthology of characters accomplishing different objectives. 

Quote from Kotath >>

Quote from Linklite >>

While you can't really have the party be the "extras" in the story, they just need to be the heroes of their area. Captain America didn't win WW2, at least not in the MCU, but he and his band were the heroes in their area.

I wouldn't make them sidekicks, or the mooks that just mop things up, they need to be the heroes of their story. However, it's absolutely fine to define their story as being a limited space in the grander story - you can be Captain America and his group, blowing up things and being heroic, without being the only actors or even the most important ones in the grander story.

 

This is exactly what I was trying to get at. You know WW2 is happening around them and that there are heroic stories related to that happening all over the place. The PC's story is just one of them. It is an important one, but nevertheless, not the only one or even necessarily the most important, objectively.

 The most important factor for this is having an established story that the PCs aren't part of.  If you're creating the story as the PCs do stuff, it's either going to end up involving them or they'll feel like they can't affect the world.  If the story is already established, they've already more or less accepted that they can't change it and will instead focus on their own story.

The party should be the main characters of their adventure, but your story doesn't have to be about the fate of the world etc. You can set the stakes and scope of the plot at a the level you want. If you don't want the players to be off fighting the Demon King either don't introduce a Demon King or make it a background element only at most tangentially related to your plot. Or frame the story not as defeating the Evil Empire but as solving a mystery of some missing people or saving a small town etc. 

Dragon Heist might be one adventure to look at where the stakes aren't at 'save the world' levels. Curse of Strahd is more about you and maybe a few lucky npcs getting out of Barovia rather than actually ending Strahd permanently. Those might be a couple things to look to for inspiration. The easiest way to keep the scope from getting out of hand is to take care with the goals and methods of the antagonists. 

It wouldn't be suitable for a longer campaign, but you could also look to something like Rogue One for inspiration -- a suicide (?) mission where you are doing something vitally important to the defeat of the BBEG... you just probably won't live to see it

Doesn't have to be a suicide mission.  You could be a B-team operating on another front of the war or a black-ops team that handles the dirty, messy stuff that the Lawful Good types won't do and won't be told about despite them being a vital part of the war effort.

They could be a specialist team like the Navy Seals or any of any other special forces units.

They have a vital job to take out/intercept/recover something or someone. Just make their enemies the same relative power as they are. If your group gets the element of surprise they can take out an unit twice their size with a little work.

They can start out by stopping the invasion of their own village. That gets them noticed and they get larger and harder jobs as their level goes up. They never have to even meet their ultimate commander or even hear much about the overall conflict.

As they go up the mission list they might even get access to government or military stores. Maybe call upon the powers to be for assistance with non mission related problems.

Fully signing up with the government could even gain them extra training in their fields of expertise. Medical attention and other bonuses. But that might come with orders and rules the party does not like and a smaller pay.