Unless I missed something, it appears that all the Deities, Gods and Pantheons have been removed from the Players Handbook 2024. Other then mentions of the use of them is specific spell descriptions, there is nothing about who they are like there was in Players Handbook 2014. Given that according to WotC once the Players Handbook 2024 is used the Players Handbook 2014 can not be used, my question becomes "Where do we find them?" For me I would just say the hell with it and use 2014 source for that, and that would be fine, but I have friends that 2024 will be their first edition and they don't have access to the Players Handbook 2014. Step that even further back, and given the preferred 2024 campaign setting seems to be Greyhawk, a lot of 2014 players who's sole exposure is to the Gods of the Forgotten Realms, what is going on with that? It seems like a huge hole to me. Thoughts ?
Presumably, since it's a worldbuilding thing, it'll be covered in the DMG, and the gods specifically of the FR will be covered in more detail in the announced FR books. (But they may be in the DMG as an example pantheon.)
If you want the FR gods for a game right now, go to the old PHB.
Deities are generally something that tends to be specific to a given setting, and so fall under the purview of the DM, in general.
With the 2024 edition they have worked really hard to move the DM stuff and Lore as a whole out of the PHB, likely in part because even their own market research shows that a majority of folks (over half) still create and use their own worlds from scratch, with no linkage to established D&D setting at all (even the planes/multiverse thing).
The deities they listed were deities for either historical or published settings -- and so of value to only about a third, at most, of all players -- who are divided among the players that use the Published worlds straight, as a canvas, that take ideas from them, that use 3rd party worlds, and more.So, really, from the perspective of the "appeal tot he most" it makes sense, business wise -- but it also means that they are likely to put a bunch of that in the DMg, since the end goal is still to have you...
... ask your DM.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
The pantheon stuff has been relocated to the DMG, since deities are the realm of worldbuilding and that's what DMs do. I'm not sure where you got the impression that the 2014 PHB is completely 100% unusable. I'm also really not sure what you're talking about with the Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms stuff.
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Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Greyhawk is going to be an example campaign in the 2024 DMg, with a full foldout map of the Flaeness that also has the city of Greyhawk on the other side.
It is not going to be a default setting (and FR was never a default setting for 2014), but folks are likely going to think of it that way since it is included.
They have already announced two new books for the Forgotten Realms that will be coming out next year (one for Players, one for DMs).
I personally strongly suspect that 2024 is going to do a somewhat better job at supporting DMs than 2014 did, and these are the first subtle hints at that.
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Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities .-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-. An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more. Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
A video with Chris Perkins and Jeremy Crawford stated that characters can be based on 2014 or 2024, but you can not use rules from 2014 if any of the characters are 2024 based because the 2024 characters do not work with 2014 rules.
Presumably, since it's a worldbuilding thing, it'll be covered in the DMG, and the gods specifically of the FR will be covered in more detail in the announced FR books. (But they may be in the DMG as an example pantheon.)
If you want the FR gods for a game right now, go to the old PHB.
Building on this answer, they said in one of their videos that there is going to be a "lore glossary" in the 2024 DMG. They specifically mentioned that the glossary is going to have examples of major gods from different D&D worlds and a brief blurb on their lore.
A video with Chris Perkins and Jeremy Crawford stated that characters can be based on 2014 or 2024, but you can not use rules from 2014 if any of the characters are 2024 based because the 2024 characters do not work with 2014 rules.
What's that got to do with deities, though?
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny. Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
A video with Chris Perkins and Jeremy Crawford stated that characters can be based on 2014 or 2024, but you can not use rules from 2014 if any of the characters are 2024 based because the 2024 characters do not work with 2014 rules.
What's that got to do with deities, though?
More specifically: the list of gods is not rules. At no point do you need it to create a character. It's flavor.
Unless I missed something, it appears that all the Deities, Gods and Pantheons have been removed from the Players Handbook 2024. Other then mentions of the use of them is specific spell descriptions, there is nothing about who they are like there was in Players Handbook 2014. Given that according to WotC once the Players Handbook 2024 is used the Players Handbook 2014 can not be used, my question becomes "Where do we find them?" For me I would just say the hell with it and use 2014 source for that, and that would be fine, but I have friends that 2024 will be their first edition and they don't have access to the Players Handbook 2014. Step that even further back, and given the preferred 2024 campaign setting seems to be Greyhawk, a lot of 2014 players who's sole exposure is to the Gods of the Forgotten Realms, what is going on with that? It seems like a huge hole to me. Thoughts ?
DMG will have this stuff, or at least should. (Not sure if they mentioned it directly or not yet), but at the same time it's not hard to look up all the Deities and Demigods for every D&D setting, plus in every official setting but one (no god/gods at all in darksun) you can just worship any known deity from polytheism or classical history. Technically it's frowned upon to use gods worshiped by millions or billions IRL for lots of sane reasons. But generally I toss the doors open for anything else. Ironically the number of people taking from popular fantasy media is high. Which makes it easy on the DM.
A video with Chris Perkins and Jeremy Crawford stated that characters can be based on 2014 or 2024, but you can not use rules from 2014 if any of the characters are 2024 based because the 2024 characters do not work with 2014 rules.
Gods are RP/background and a part of world building, there is no specific rules about them in 5th ed at all, just some minor lore. (now 2nd ed had some rules and stuff but that is just fluff a DM could use)
Say you are running a new campaign set with 5.5 (aka 2024) rules, and your character wanted to play a Kobold Artificer they are totally allowed to use the most recent versions of both. Same with all rules, the most recent published version of a rule is the one players should use, and if something doesn't get a rewrite then that thing is still valid. Say you want to play a half-elf way of the four elements monk (both in the 2014 rules, not in the 2024 rules) I would suggest playing an elf Warrior of the Elements, but if you insist sure technically those rules have not been updated, so your character would be based on the 2014 rules in a 2024 game. I would say you would be much weaker this way, but it's doable.
This is true of deities, latest version of the lore is the one to use, although as a DM I learn as much lore as possible so I can adapt to player choices easier. An Shadar-kai Cleric of the Raven Queen (an awesome character idea) would be taxing on a DM if they didn't learn at least some of her lore outside what is seen in a live play show or animated tv show.
Unless I missed something, it appears that all the Deities, Gods and Pantheons have been removed from the Players Handbook 2024. Other then mentions of the use of them is specific spell descriptions, there is nothing about who they are like there was in Players Handbook 2014. Given that according to WotC once the Players Handbook 2024 is used the Players Handbook 2014 can not be used, my question becomes "Where do we find them?" For me I would just say the hell with it and use 2014 source for that, and that would be fine, but I have friends that 2024 will be their first edition and they don't have access to the Players Handbook 2014. Step that even further back, and given the preferred 2024 campaign setting seems to be Greyhawk, a lot of 2014 players who's sole exposure is to the Gods of the Forgotten Realms, what is going on with that? It seems like a huge hole to me. Thoughts ?
You want to pick up a few of the original books from 1e, like Deities and Demi-Gods and Legends & Lore. Of course, they are getting harder to find them all the time. Even the original UA from the mid- 80's has a small, but rich section of various gods. They will give you a ton of material to work with.
Unless I missed something, it appears that all the Deities, Gods and Pantheons have been removed from the Players Handbook 2024. Other then mentions of the use of them is specific spell descriptions, there is nothing about who they are like there was in Players Handbook 2014. Given that according to WotC once the Players Handbook 2024 is used the Players Handbook 2014 can not be used, my question becomes "Where do we find them?" For me I would just say the hell with it and use 2014 source for that, and that would be fine, but I have friends that 2024 will be their first edition and they don't have access to the Players Handbook 2014. Step that even further back, and given the preferred 2024 campaign setting seems to be Greyhawk, a lot of 2014 players who's sole exposure is to the Gods of the Forgotten Realms, what is going on with that? It seems like a huge hole to me. Thoughts ?
You want to pick up a few of the original books from 1e, like Deities and Demi-Gods and Legends & Lore. Of course, they are getting harder to find them all the time. Even the original UA from the mid- 80's has a small, but rich section of various gods. They will give you a ton of material to work with.
I don't think you can say they're getting harder to find when you can buy a PDF from DriveThruRPG for (currently) six bucks.
However that'll get you a bunch of D&Dized Earth pantheons, including useless stats, and not the Forgotten Realms pantheon, which is what OP seems to be concerned about.
Unless I missed something, it appears that all the Deities, Gods and Pantheons have been removed from the Players Handbook 2024. Other then mentions of the use of them is specific spell descriptions, there is nothing about who they are like there was in Players Handbook 2014. Given that according to WotC once the Players Handbook 2024 is used the Players Handbook 2014 can not be used, my question becomes "Where do we find them?" For me I would just say the hell with it and use 2014 source for that, and that would be fine, but I have friends that 2024 will be their first edition and they don't have access to the Players Handbook 2014. Step that even further back, and given the preferred 2024 campaign setting seems to be Greyhawk, a lot of 2014 players who's sole exposure is to the Gods of the Forgotten Realms, what is going on with that? It seems like a huge hole to me. Thoughts ?
You want to pick up a few of the original books from 1e, like Deities and Demi-Gods and Legends & Lore. Of course, they are getting harder to find them all the time. Even the original UA from the mid- 80's has a small, but rich section of various gods. They will give you a ton of material to work with.
I don't think you can say they're getting harder to find when you can buy a PDF from DriveThruRPG for (currently) six bucks.
However that'll get you a bunch of D&Dized Earth pantheons, including useless stats, and not the Forgotten Realms pantheon, which is what OP seems to be concerned about.
You can buy 4e stuff as PDFs as well. Along with I believe 3e which would cover the gods. But you shouldn't have to go to previous editions to get important information for a game.
Unless I missed something, it appears that all the Deities, Gods and Pantheons have been removed from the Players Handbook 2024. Other then mentions of the use of them is specific spell descriptions, there is nothing about who they are like there was in Players Handbook 2014. Given that according to WotC once the Players Handbook 2024 is used the Players Handbook 2014 can not be used, my question becomes "Where do we find them?" For me I would just say the hell with it and use 2014 source for that, and that would be fine, but I have friends that 2024 will be their first edition and they don't have access to the Players Handbook 2014. Step that even further back, and given the preferred 2024 campaign setting seems to be Greyhawk, a lot of 2014 players who's sole exposure is to the Gods of the Forgotten Realms, what is going on with that? It seems like a huge hole to me. Thoughts ?
You want to pick up a few of the original books from 1e, like Deities and Demi-Gods and Legends & Lore. Of course, they are getting harder to find them all the time. Even the original UA from the mid- 80's has a small, but rich section of various gods. They will give you a ton of material to work with.
I don't think you can say they're getting harder to find when you can buy a PDF from DriveThruRPG for (currently) six bucks.
However that'll get you a bunch of D&Dized Earth pantheons, including useless stats, and not the Forgotten Realms pantheon, which is what OP seems to be concerned about.
You can buy 4e stuff as PDFs as well. Along with I believe 3e which would cover the gods. But you shouldn't have to go to previous editions to get important information for a game.
Fortunately, you will not have to, and your post about gods not being an important part of the game is equally wrong. This is just the problem you run into when the realities of the publishing industry mean you have to stagger your book releases - sometimes things that you might want released earlier get pushed back a couple months.
As already said by multiple folks, this info will be in the 2024 DMG. Until then, if one needs a stop gap, they could browse places like the Forgotten Realms wiki, which has more lore on each god than could ever be realistically published in a single physical product.
Unless I missed something, it appears that all the Deities, Gods and Pantheons have been removed from the Players Handbook 2024. Other then mentions of the use of them is specific spell descriptions, there is nothing about who they are like there was in Players Handbook 2014. Given that according to WotC once the Players Handbook 2024 is used the Players Handbook 2014 can not be used, my question becomes "Where do we find them?" For me I would just say the hell with it and use 2014 source for that, and that would be fine, but I have friends that 2024 will be their first edition and they don't have access to the Players Handbook 2014. Step that even further back, and given the preferred 2024 campaign setting seems to be Greyhawk, a lot of 2014 players who's sole exposure is to the Gods of the Forgotten Realms, what is going on with that? It seems like a huge hole to me. Thoughts ?
You want to pick up a few of the original books from 1e, like Deities and Demi-Gods and Legends & Lore. Of course, they are getting harder to find them all the time. Even the original UA from the mid- 80's has a small, but rich section of various gods. They will give you a ton of material to work with.
I don't think you can say they're getting harder to find when you can buy a PDF from DriveThruRPG for (currently) six bucks.
However that'll get you a bunch of D&Dized Earth pantheons, including useless stats, and not the Forgotten Realms pantheon, which is what OP seems to be concerned about.
I meant the hard copies. It is always better to have a hard copy.
You can buy 4e stuff as PDFs as well. Along with I believe 3e which would cover the gods. But you shouldn't have to go to previous editions to get important information for a game.
Important information?
What do you need a list of gods for to play the game? Does any class require you to pick a god at all, much less to get mechanical benefits from your choice?
If you make a D&D world without specific gods, whether monotheistic or whatever, do you need to make any rule changes to handle that?
You want to pick up a few of the original books from 1e, like Deities and Demi-Gods and Legends & Lore. Of course, they are getting harder to find them all the time. Even the original UA from the mid- 80's has a small, but rich section of various gods. They will give you a ton of material to work with.
I don't think you can say they're getting harder to find when you can buy a PDF from DriveThruRPG for (currently) six bucks.
However that'll get you a bunch of D&Dized Earth pantheons, including useless stats, and not the Forgotten Realms pantheon, which is what OP seems to be concerned about.
I meant the hard copies. It is always better to have a hard copy.
Meh. PDFs can be searched, backed up, don't fall apart with use, etc.
I will admit I still find physical books better for general reference, but that's not how one would use Deities and Demigods in a normal D&D campaign.
Given the uselessness of the game statistics inside, I'm not even sure it's more useful than Wikipedia.
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Unless I missed something, it appears that all the Deities, Gods and Pantheons have been removed from the Players Handbook 2024. Other then mentions of the use of them is specific spell descriptions, there is nothing about who they are like there was in Players Handbook 2014. Given that according to WotC once the Players Handbook 2024 is used the Players Handbook 2014 can not be used, my question becomes "Where do we find them?" For me I would just say the hell with it and use 2014 source for that, and that would be fine, but I have friends that 2024 will be their first edition and they don't have access to the Players Handbook 2014. Step that even further back, and given the preferred 2024 campaign setting seems to be Greyhawk, a lot of 2014 players who's sole exposure is to the Gods of the Forgotten Realms, what is going on with that? It seems like a huge hole to me. Thoughts ?
Christopher A. Blanchard
Presumably, since it's a worldbuilding thing, it'll be covered in the DMG, and the gods specifically of the FR will be covered in more detail in the announced FR books. (But they may be in the DMG as an example pantheon.)
If you want the FR gods for a game right now, go to the old PHB.
Deities are generally something that tends to be specific to a given setting, and so fall under the purview of the DM, in general.
With the 2024 edition they have worked really hard to move the DM stuff and Lore as a whole out of the PHB, likely in part because even their own market research shows that a majority of folks (over half) still create and use their own worlds from scratch, with no linkage to established D&D setting at all (even the planes/multiverse thing).
The deities they listed were deities for either historical or published settings -- and so of value to only about a third, at most, of all players -- who are divided among the players that use the Published worlds straight, as a canvas, that take ideas from them, that use 3rd party worlds, and more.So, really, from the perspective of the "appeal tot he most" it makes sense, business wise -- but it also means that they are likely to put a bunch of that in the DMg, since the end goal is still to have you...
... ask your DM.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
The pantheon stuff has been relocated to the DMG, since deities are the realm of worldbuilding and that's what DMs do. I'm not sure where you got the impression that the 2014 PHB is completely 100% unusable. I'm also really not sure what you're talking about with the Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms stuff.
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
Greyhawk is going to be an example campaign in the 2024 DMg, with a full foldout map of the Flaeness that also has the city of Greyhawk on the other side.
It is not going to be a default setting (and FR was never a default setting for 2014), but folks are likely going to think of it that way since it is included.
They have already announced two new books for the Forgotten Realms that will be coming out next year (one for Players, one for DMs).
I personally strongly suspect that 2024 is going to do a somewhat better job at supporting DMs than 2014 did, and these are the first subtle hints at that.
Only a DM since 1980 (3000+ Sessions) / PhD, MS, MA / Mixed, Bi, Trans, Woman / No longer welcome in the US, apparently
Wyrlde: Adventures in the Seven Cities
.-=] Lore Book | Patreon | Wyrlde YT [=-.
An original Setting for 5e, a whole solar system of adventure. Ongoing updates, exclusies, more.
Not Talking About It / Dubbed The Oracle in the Cult of Mythology Nerds
A video with Chris Perkins and Jeremy Crawford stated that characters can be based on 2014 or 2024, but you can not use rules from 2014 if any of the characters are 2024 based because the 2024 characters do not work with 2014 rules.
Christopher A. Blanchard
Building on this answer, they said in one of their videos that there is going to be a "lore glossary" in the 2024 DMG. They specifically mentioned that the glossary is going to have examples of major gods from different D&D worlds and a brief blurb on their lore.
What's that got to do with deities, though?
Look at what you've done. You spoiled it. You have nobody to blame but yourself. Go sit and think about your actions.
Don't be mean. Rudeness is a vicious cycle, and it has to stop somewhere. Exceptions for things that are funny.
Go to the current Competition of the Finest 'Brews! It's a cool place where cool people make cool things.
How I'm posting based on text formatting: Mod Hat Off - Mod Hat Also Off (I'm not a mod)
The 2014 PHB didn't really have a section for deities either, aside from listing ones that might be associated with the various cleric subclasses.
More specifically: the list of gods is not rules. At no point do you need it to create a character. It's flavor.
DMG will have this stuff, or at least should. (Not sure if they mentioned it directly or not yet), but at the same time it's not hard to look up all the Deities and Demigods for every D&D setting, plus in every official setting but one (no god/gods at all in darksun) you can just worship any known deity from polytheism or classical history. Technically it's frowned upon to use gods worshiped by millions or billions IRL for lots of sane reasons. But generally I toss the doors open for anything else. Ironically the number of people taking from popular fantasy media is high. Which makes it easy on the DM.
Gods are RP/background and a part of world building, there is no specific rules about them in 5th ed at all, just some minor lore. (now 2nd ed had some rules and stuff but that is just fluff a DM could use)
Say you are running a new campaign set with 5.5 (aka 2024) rules, and your character wanted to play a Kobold Artificer they are totally allowed to use the most recent versions of both. Same with all rules, the most recent published version of a rule is the one players should use, and if something doesn't get a rewrite then that thing is still valid. Say you want to play a half-elf way of the four elements monk (both in the 2014 rules, not in the 2024 rules) I would suggest playing an elf Warrior of the Elements, but if you insist sure technically those rules have not been updated, so your character would be based on the 2014 rules in a 2024 game. I would say you would be much weaker this way, but it's doable.
This is true of deities, latest version of the lore is the one to use, although as a DM I learn as much lore as possible so I can adapt to player choices easier. An Shadar-kai Cleric of the Raven Queen (an awesome character idea) would be taxing on a DM if they didn't learn at least some of her lore outside what is seen in a live play show or animated tv show.
You want to pick up a few of the original books from 1e, like Deities and Demi-Gods and Legends & Lore. Of course, they are getting harder to find them all the time. Even the original UA from the mid- 80's has a small, but rich section of various gods. They will give you a ton of material to work with.
I don't think you can say they're getting harder to find when you can buy a PDF from DriveThruRPG for (currently) six bucks.
However that'll get you a bunch of D&Dized Earth pantheons, including useless stats, and not the Forgotten Realms pantheon, which is what OP seems to be concerned about.
They have gone on vacation. Apparently they aren't an important part of the game.
You can buy 4e stuff as PDFs as well. Along with I believe 3e which would cover the gods. But you shouldn't have to go to previous editions to get important information for a game.
Fortunately, you will not have to, and your post about gods not being an important part of the game is equally wrong. This is just the problem you run into when the realities of the publishing industry mean you have to stagger your book releases - sometimes things that you might want released earlier get pushed back a couple months.
As already said by multiple folks, this info will be in the 2024 DMG. Until then, if one needs a stop gap, they could browse places like the Forgotten Realms wiki, which has more lore on each god than could ever be realistically published in a single physical product.
I meant the hard copies. It is always better to have a hard copy.
Important information?
What do you need a list of gods for to play the game? Does any class require you to pick a god at all, much less to get mechanical benefits from your choice?
If you make a D&D world without specific gods, whether monotheistic or whatever, do you need to make any rule changes to handle that?
Meh. PDFs can be searched, backed up, don't fall apart with use, etc.
I will admit I still find physical books better for general reference, but that's not how one would use Deities and Demigods in a normal D&D campaign.
Given the uselessness of the game statistics inside, I'm not even sure it's more useful than Wikipedia.