Alright so hate for D&D isn't really a new thing and granted I have been very vocal about my dismay over Alchemist lacking potions in the UA unlike their AD&D counterpart who had access to all spells up to Level 6 as potions. Nonetheless, with 2024 out now everyone seems super pissy. My in person group fell apart because two players heard all the hate for it online and decided they didn't want to do the new rule set. And most online groups aren't accepting the 2024 rules yet. I like the new rule set! Except for the Alchemist UA because it is terribly limited on potions for Alchemist and almost everything they can make so can everyone else. Outside this though I think the game runs a bit smoother and they made certain things way more clear like Magic Actions are clearly stated to be different from Attack Actions. It is just a better put together edition when it comes to debates over the rules.
But there is soooo much hate. Guess somethings never change and D&D is got a new generation of players and haters.
My in person group fell apart because two players heard all the hate for it online and decided they didn't want to do the new rule set. And most online groups aren't accepting the 2024 rules yet.
To be honest, the only places I see hate for 2024 is here and the rage bait Youtubers.
The people I know and talk to in the real world that actually play D&D have either switched over to 2024 or are planning to after they complete their current games.
Almost every game I know that wasn't already two years deep into a campaign has switched to the new rules and are loving them. The only hate I've seen is online from people who seem to make hating WotC their entire personalities
Frankly my take is the initial overreach with the OGL last winter highlighted WotC as a target for the standard anti-corporate internet rhetoric, which has then segued into the exact same drama that happens with every rules update to give more “talking points” to keep the alleged issues going. Naturally, the fact that WotC has been responsive to the community doesn’t count for anything if they’re not catering to every specific demand, even when anyone who was paying attention for the past year and a half or so should have clearly understood that yes, they were planning to overhaul the core features and as a corollary the update would hold place of prominence once it took effect. And yet people are shocked and outraged that, after WotC backtracked on taking down updated spells on the character sheet- which would have had a fairly low impact since the most relevant updates were text-heavy effects rather than “X save, YdZ in A area” and thus had little to no meaningful character sheet integration in the first place- they are slightly emphasizing the rules that will be applied to all further content over the version they spent more than a year signaling “hey, we’re planning to make changes to this”.
Expecting WotC to focus on the previous version of D&D feels a bit like expecting a musician or band to focus on promoting their previous album when they've just released a new album. WotC hasn't done away with 2014 5e, but I'm a bit baffled why anyone would be at all surprised at them focusing on 2024 over 2014.
2024 is pretty good, but it could have been better. My table makes it better through a few tweaks and changes, and by bringing a few things 2014 things left on the cutting room floor when 2024 came out. I Have been around the block a few times and know this is just part of the natural cycle of D&D. it happened with AD&D2nd to 3rd, it kinda happened between 3rd and 3.5, it happened HARD during 3.5 to 4E, it was very tame for 4E to 5E, and people loved 5E so now it is happening with 5ER2024. That is just how it goes.
Something that does not help, is that DNDBeyond, the most well known of the online character resources, seems set up to force 2024 content even when people want to play or continue ongoing 2014 campaigns, and guess what happens when you try to force things on people, they tend to dislike it, because they weren't given a choice. We were told constantly that "This isn't a new edition!" and "This isn't even a 5.5" and then it gets treated like a new edition, and the previous one is dropped. That breeds resentment. I think that has amplified the natural edition war sentiment by a lot.
I also, absolutely hate how Hasbro has treated D&D, and many of WoTC's moves, but i separate that from the game, and many other people do not. I have been playing since before Wizards of the Coast was the owner, and i will keep playing after they burn the brand to the ground, like TSR almost did.
2024 has a lot i love, and a lot of stuff i am not so keen on. So i customize my experience. Something that a lot of players seem to forget they can do. It is not a "This way or the highway" hobby.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
My in person group fell apart because two players heard all the hate for it online and decided they didn't want to do the new rule set. And most online groups aren't accepting the 2024 rules yet.
2024 cleaned up a lot of rules, but most people are not going to switch mid campaign.
We didn't really end mid-campaign. We ended maybe a session or two early because a third-party member was dropping out to teach an addition class at college. It left two others and myself still wanting to play. A couple others were on board to join but scheduling hasn't really worked out. That is the way it is with DnD. I have an online game but I want an in person group because it is more fun. So, while looking around online to see if I could find a group in Manhattan that isn't Adventures League (I am banned for playing this character: Trick or Treat This Faerie Demands Your Candies - Bard - Class Forums - D&D Beyond Forums - D&D Beyond - at multiple tables soft locking multiple campaigns before flying off.) I noticed that all the online groups are running 5e and not D&D One. I don't know... it was just something I noticed. To be honest though I am really just waiting to for Artificer to update so I can play my Alchemist again.
Once you filter out all the people hating on others for having any degree of "more" than them specifically, to varying degrees of emotion, then you find the love.
From Mackenzie di Armas's passion for writing manifested in The Book of Many Things, to some beautiful paintings of characters people poured so much emotion into that are still not buried in GenAI slop, there is still love out there.
Expecting WotC to focus on the previous version of D&D feels a bit like expecting a musician or band to focus on promoting their previous album when they've just released a new album. WotC hasn't done away with 2014 5e, but I'm a bit baffled why anyone would be at all surprised at them focusing on 2024 over 2014.
A more accurate analogy in that regard would be that WotC are one of those bands that refuse to play any of their old songs since they changed up their sound even though many in their audiences are still calling out the titles of some of their older songs.
There is little worse than paying a small fortune to go see a band on the road to promote their new record only to have to listen to all new material because they refuse to play anything else.
Good bands deliver. They can play things from their entire discography no matter how many years they have been playing. And no matter how many changes they have gone through. Rush did this and did it to perfection.
It's also important to note that many good bands do anniversary shows during which they perform an older work in its entirety. Personally I think that would have been a better to way to mark the anniversary of the game:
e.g. a collectible reissue of the white box.
Not produce a whole new set of books then basically tell fans of their old stuff they don't care if those fans don't like the new stuff. That's hardly the friendliest way to mark the occasion ...
Do you follow many bands on social media? Bands often mark the anniversary of the release of an earlier album in their career by promoting it. A band that has just released their latest record but can soon after say it was on such-and-such day X number of years ago they released an earlier album and attach to this audio and promote the thing is a band that clearly cares about its legacy. And one that hasn't drunk the 'new is always better' Kool-Aid.
Once you filter out all the people hating on others for having any degree of "more" than them specifically, to varying degrees of emotion, then you find the love.
From Mackenzie di Armas's passion for writing manifested in The Book of Many Things, to some beautiful paintings of characters people poured so much emotion into that are still not buried in GenAI slop, there is still love out there.
You just need a filter or 2.
Every interview you see with Mackenzie makes it very obvious she's incredibly passionate about making the game as fun and exciting as she can. She wants people to be as excited as she obviously is. I never get why so many people want to attack her for that
Once you filter out all the people hating on others for having any degree of "more" than them specifically, to varying degrees of emotion, then you find the love.
From Mackenzie di Armas's passion for writing manifested in The Book of Many Things, to some beautiful paintings of characters people poured so much emotion into that are still not buried in GenAI slop, there is still love out there.
You just need a filter or 2.
Every interview you see with Mackenzie makes it very obvious she's incredibly passionate about making the game as fun and exciting as she can. She wants people to be as excited as she obviously is. I never get why so many people want to attack her for that
Most hate for it is from people who heard from other people who heard from a influencer that it was not good, and this shows in threads on reddit often enough when people bring up the most basic changes that should be known, and are surprised that 5.24 fixed the issues of 5.14.
Yeah, the hate for new D&D editions is nothing new—it happens every time a major update drops. I get why people are upset, especially with things like the Alchemist UA feeling underwhelming (seriously, where are the potions?!). But outside of that, the 2024 rules actually improve a lot, especially with clearer distinctions like Magic Actions vs. Attack Actions.
It sucks that your in-person group fell apart because of online negativity. The good news is that once more people actually play the new edition instead of just complaining about it, opinions might shift. D&D has always evolved, and this is just another cycle of that.
By the numbers, 2024 is clearly loved by large segments of the community - it is he fastest selling iteration of the game to date, a clear indication of popular and widespread curiosity and adoption. Sales data speaks a whole lot more true than voices online - there are laws requiring companies to be truthful in making statements on their sales; no such requirements exist for the rabble rousers on forums and videos.
Hopefully your friends will come around. Folks often act a bit crazy around any rules updates, but the data shows widespread adoption even among holdouts within three years or so—happens every rules update and there is no reason to suspect this will be any different. Give it time, most folks will probably make the switch.
I get antsy with updates—the more drastic, the more nervous—but I also learned that updates are going to happen, and I should at least try them from a "new thing to me" frame of mind rather than "how does this compare to what I know" like I used to do a long time ago.
Either, I learn to move with changes and have some control where I end up, or I get dragged along kicking and screaming and have no say where things go. It took me way too long to figure that out, but the last 20 years have been much easier living in this world.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider. My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong. I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲 “It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Isnt it always the case that the haters are always loud? And the people, who are happy with 2024 dont fuss about it, they are just playing and useing the 2024 Rules.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Pen and Paper Addict
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Alright so hate for D&D isn't really a new thing and granted I have been very vocal about my dismay over Alchemist lacking potions in the UA unlike their AD&D counterpart who had access to all spells up to Level 6 as potions. Nonetheless, with 2024 out now everyone seems super pissy. My in person group fell apart because two players heard all the hate for it online and decided they didn't want to do the new rule set. And most online groups aren't accepting the 2024 rules yet. I like the new rule set! Except for the Alchemist UA because it is terribly limited on potions for Alchemist and almost everything they can make so can everyone else. Outside this though I think the game runs a bit smoother and they made certain things way more clear like Magic Actions are clearly stated to be different from Attack Actions. It is just a better put together edition when it comes to debates over the rules.
But there is soooo much hate. Guess somethings never change and D&D is got a new generation of players and haters.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
A lot of people, myself included, really like the 2024 updates. But angry voices are louder.
pronouns: he/she/they
There are a gazillion 2024 rules online games
https://startplaying.games/search?q=2024
2024 cleaned up a lot of rules, but most people are not going to switch mid campaign.
The general hatred of the game and company (for good or ill) has really put me off large swathes of the online community. Quite sad really.
I love D&D, I'm enjoying the new 2024 options available to me and I'm having a blast with my online groups.
The rest is just noise that I ignore.
To be honest, the only places I see hate for 2024 is here and the rage bait Youtubers.
The people I know and talk to in the real world that actually play D&D have either switched over to 2024 or are planning to after they complete their current games.
She/Her Player and Dungeon Master
Almost every game I know that wasn't already two years deep into a campaign has switched to the new rules and are loving them. The only hate I've seen is online from people who seem to make hating WotC their entire personalities
If my groups are any indication, plenty of groups that are well into ongoing campaigns have also switched over.
Frankly my take is the initial overreach with the OGL last winter highlighted WotC as a target for the standard anti-corporate internet rhetoric, which has then segued into the exact same drama that happens with every rules update to give more “talking points” to keep the alleged issues going. Naturally, the fact that WotC has been responsive to the community doesn’t count for anything if they’re not catering to every specific demand, even when anyone who was paying attention for the past year and a half or so should have clearly understood that yes, they were planning to overhaul the core features and as a corollary the update would hold place of prominence once it took effect. And yet people are shocked and outraged that, after WotC backtracked on taking down updated spells on the character sheet- which would have had a fairly low impact since the most relevant updates were text-heavy effects rather than “X save, YdZ in A area” and thus had little to no meaningful character sheet integration in the first place- they are slightly emphasizing the rules that will be applied to all further content over the version they spent more than a year signaling “hey, we’re planning to make changes to this”.
Expecting WotC to focus on the previous version of D&D feels a bit like expecting a musician or band to focus on promoting their previous album when they've just released a new album. WotC hasn't done away with 2014 5e, but I'm a bit baffled why anyone would be at all surprised at them focusing on 2024 over 2014.
My position is: It's ok.
2024 is pretty good, but it could have been better. My table makes it better through a few tweaks and changes, and by bringing a few things 2014 things left on the cutting room floor when 2024 came out. I Have been around the block a few times and know this is just part of the natural cycle of D&D. it happened with AD&D2nd to 3rd, it kinda happened between 3rd and 3.5, it happened HARD during 3.5 to 4E, it was very tame for 4E to 5E, and people loved 5E so now it is happening with 5ER2024. That is just how it goes.
Something that does not help, is that DNDBeyond, the most well known of the online character resources, seems set up to force 2024 content even when people want to play or continue ongoing 2014 campaigns, and guess what happens when you try to force things on people, they tend to dislike it, because they weren't given a choice. We were told constantly that "This isn't a new edition!" and "This isn't even a 5.5" and then it gets treated like a new edition, and the previous one is dropped.
That breeds resentment. I think that has amplified the natural edition war sentiment by a lot.
I also, absolutely hate how Hasbro has treated D&D, and many of WoTC's moves, but i separate that from the game, and many other people do not. I have been playing since before Wizards of the Coast was the owner, and i will keep playing after they burn the brand to the ground, like TSR almost did.
2024 has a lot i love, and a lot of stuff i am not so keen on. So i customize my experience. Something that a lot of players seem to forget they can do. It is not a "This way or the highway" hobby.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World
We didn't really end mid-campaign. We ended maybe a session or two early because a third-party member was dropping out to teach an addition class at college. It left two others and myself still wanting to play. A couple others were on board to join but scheduling hasn't really worked out. That is the way it is with DnD. I have an online game but I want an in person group because it is more fun. So, while looking around online to see if I could find a group in Manhattan that isn't Adventures League (I am banned for playing this character: Trick or Treat This Faerie Demands Your Candies - Bard - Class Forums - D&D Beyond Forums - D&D Beyond - at multiple tables soft locking multiple campaigns before flying off.) I noticed that all the online groups are running 5e and not D&D One. I don't know... it was just something I noticed. To be honest though I am really just waiting to for Artificer to update so I can play my Alchemist again.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
Once you filter out all the people hating on others for having any degree of "more" than them specifically, to varying degrees of emotion, then you find the love.
From Mackenzie di Armas's passion for writing manifested in The Book of Many Things, to some beautiful paintings of characters people poured so much emotion into that are still not buried in GenAI slop, there is still love out there.
You just need a filter or 2.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
A more accurate analogy in that regard would be that WotC are one of those bands that refuse to play any of their old songs since they changed up their sound even though many in their audiences are still calling out the titles of some of their older songs.
There is little worse than paying a small fortune to go see a band on the road to promote their new record only to have to listen to all new material because they refuse to play anything else.
Good bands deliver. They can play things from their entire discography no matter how many years they have been playing. And no matter how many changes they have gone through. Rush did this and did it to perfection.
It's also important to note that many good bands do anniversary shows during which they perform an older work in its entirety. Personally I think that would have been a better to way to mark the anniversary of the game:
e.g. a collectible reissue of the white box.
Not produce a whole new set of books then basically tell fans of their old stuff they don't care if those fans don't like the new stuff. That's hardly the friendliest way to mark the occasion ...
Do you follow many bands on social media? Bands often mark the anniversary of the release of an earlier album in their career by promoting it. A band that has just released their latest record but can soon after say it was on such-and-such day X number of years ago they released an earlier album and attach to this audio and promote the thing is a band that clearly cares about its legacy. And one that hasn't drunk the 'new is always better' Kool-Aid.
Every interview you see with Mackenzie makes it very obvious she's incredibly passionate about making the game as fun and exciting as she can. She wants people to be as excited as she obviously is. I never get why so many people want to attack her for that
There is truth in this.
"Life is Cast by Random Dice"
Burn my candle twice.
I have done my life justice
Against random dice.
i love 5.24, and i refuse to call it 5.5.
Most hate for it is from people who heard from other people who heard from a influencer that it was not good, and this shows in threads on reddit often enough when people bring up the most basic changes that should be known, and are surprised that 5.24 fixed the issues of 5.14.
Yeah, the hate for new D&D editions is nothing new—it happens every time a major update drops. I get why people are upset, especially with things like the Alchemist UA feeling underwhelming (seriously, where are the potions?!). But outside of that, the 2024 rules actually improve a lot, especially with clearer distinctions like Magic Actions vs. Attack Actions.
It sucks that your in-person group fell apart because of online negativity. The good news is that once more people actually play the new edition instead of just complaining about it, opinions might shift. D&D has always evolved, and this is just another cycle of that.
For an official breakdown of the 2024 edition changes, you might want to check this out: Dungeons & Dragons Official Site
Are you planning to find a new group, or sticking with solo play for now?
By the numbers, 2024 is clearly loved by large segments of the community - it is he fastest selling iteration of the game to date, a clear indication of popular and widespread curiosity and adoption. Sales data speaks a whole lot more true than voices online - there are laws requiring companies to be truthful in making statements on their sales; no such requirements exist for the rabble rousers on forums and videos.
Hopefully your friends will come around. Folks often act a bit crazy around any rules updates, but the data shows widespread adoption even among holdouts within three years or so—happens every rules update and there is no reason to suspect this will be any different. Give it time, most folks will probably make the switch.
I get antsy with updates—the more drastic, the more nervous—but I also learned that updates are going to happen, and I should at least try them from a "new thing to me" frame of mind rather than "how does this compare to what I know" like I used to do a long time ago.
Either, I learn to move with changes and have some control where I end up, or I get dragged along kicking and screaming and have no say where things go. It took me way too long to figure that out, but the last 20 years have been much easier living in this world.
Human. Male. Possibly. Don't be a divider.
My characters' backgrounds are written like instruction manuals rather than stories. My opinion and preferences don't mean you're wrong.
I am 99.7603% convinced that the digital dice are messing with me. I roll high when nobody's looking and low when anyone else can see.🎲
“It's a bit early to be thinking about an epitaph. No?” will be my epitaph.
Isnt it always the case that the haters are always loud? And the people, who are happy with 2024 dont fuss about it, they are just playing and useing the 2024 Rules.
Pen and Paper Addict