I'm not talking about the game item. I'm asking if someone wrote a 5E Book of Vile Darkness as a companion book, like the 3E book, what sort of useful info for gameplay do you think should be put in?
If it were up to me, it would have some more powerful necromancy spells, new monsters in the forms of fiends and undead, more detailed info on Demon Lords and Archdevils, (including stats and adventure options with any of them as the villain) and more detailed options for creating your own Demon Lord, Archdevil, and making new Layers of the Abyss or redecorating one of the Circles of the 9 Hells. And like the original, it includes options for what happens if your PC gets possessed by a Demon.
I'd also include the methods needed for PC's to become liches, as well as options for creating a homebrew lich of your own. Including phylactery ideas and methods of destroying them.
In other words, I think a 5E Book of VIle Darkness companion should give PC's options for making and roleplaying as evil PC's, and options for making more Dark Fantasy and mature campaigns. So even those who still wish to be on the side of good can still find useful info.
What would you put in if you were asked to write a Book of Vile Darkness companion book for 5E?
I think that everything you have said makes sense, but in addition maybe information on evil non-demonic entities like Vecna, and maybe even some information on Elder Evils/Gods. Maybe even some information on the Yugoloths, Hordlings and Demodands?
I feel like edgy, evil products like the OG Book of Vile Darkness supplement are an overall detriment to the official product line. Evil play is not, IMO, conducive to D&D in a general sense and is something that should very much be constructed as a bespoke experience at the table level. Basically I don't think official D&D products should ever cater to or endorse evil play.
That being said, I think if there was going to be a Book of Vile Darkness 5th edition product, it should be a collection of the following:
Legendary evil creatures to use as bosses for your campaigns. I'm thinking one or two per creature type per tier of play
A selection of magical curses that can be attached to items, traps, or given to monsters to inflict when they die. These curses would be have a specific mechanical penalty, a roleplay aspect, and a very clear method for removing them that can provide a side quest. They'd not be something a character would ever want to lean into, but also not be something that would significantly hinder play. For example, Curse of the Black Shadow which gives you disadvantage on Charisma ability checks, all NPCs are wary and distrustful of you, and to remove it you must, idk, perform 5 heroic and selfless acts without receiving any praise or reward. That kind of thing.
More cursed magic items and items that come with a dark or dangerous cost. Think weapons that drain the users hit points when their special ability is used, or reduce an ability score while attuned.
A selection of traps to populate your dungeons with, spread across various environments and tiers of play
A selection of dungeons that are ready to use, including monsters, traps, curses, loot, and a final boss (basically pulling from all the previous bullet points)
Basically a physical Book of Vile Darkness product should, imo, be a DM facing product of lots of nasty (but fun) things to throw at your players.
It could then be accompanied by a Book of Exalted Deeds product as a simultaneous release (like the two Faerun books coming up) that contains various exceptionally heroic subclasses, spells, and other character facing options.
tldr- Book of Vile Deeds as a DM book of monsters, curses and cursed magic items, traps etc, and Book of Exalted Deeds as a PC book of subclasses, spells, boons, titles, bastion options etc
I've got the 3e Book of Vile Darkness and it is really a DM resource although the book also comes with a sticker on the front "Warning! Content is intended for mature audiences only." so given the rest of its contents I really don't see it coming over to 5e.
Having said that I still occasionally use "Vile Damage" which is basically damage that can only be healed with magic that is cast within the area of a Hallow spell.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
* Need a character idea? Search for "Rob76's Unused" in the Story and Lore section.
If I was to take a stab at TBOVD, I'd probably look at it as a guide for how to run "Evil" campaigns; ones where the players are essentially the villains of the story as well as how to handle consequences for "good" characters doing a downfall.
Also I'd include the Blackguard for paladin so that there is a legitimate "evil" option and people stop thinking breaking their oath is a "Pro gamer move".
As to GM options: I'd focus on curses and blights. Not those little "Oh noes, I have a penalty on my rolls for a minute if someone doesn't cast a 3rd level spell" curses. I'm talking about the ones which are creeping dooms or condemn vast regions with both descriptions of their effects and what it takes to actually beat them (which should never, ever be simple/easy).
I don't think a 5e BoVD and BoED would be doable due to Hasbro.
They'd probably mandate WotC make both books grey-er, morality-wise, to appeal to the median customer the chart says exists. Because consequences turn off that guy on the chart.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
I feel like edgy, evil products like the OG Book of Vile Darkness supplement are an overall detriment to the official product line. Evil play is not, IMO, conducive to D&D in a general sense and is something that should very much be constructed as a bespoke experience at the table level. Basically I don't think official D&D products should ever cater to or endorse evil play.
That being said, I think if there was going to be a Book of Vile Darkness 5th edition product, it should be a collection of the following:
Legendary evil creatures to use as bosses for your campaigns. I'm thinking one or two per creature type per tier of play
A selection of magical curses that can be attached to items, traps, or given to monsters to inflict when they die. These curses would be have a specific mechanical penalty, a roleplay aspect, and a very clear method for removing them that can provide a side quest. They'd not be something a character would ever want to lean into, but also not be something that would significantly hinder play. For example, Curse of the Black Shadow which gives you disadvantage on Charisma ability checks, all NPCs are wary and distrustful of you, and to remove it you must, idk, perform 5 heroic and selfless acts without receiving any praise or reward. That kind of thing.
More cursed magic items and items that come with a dark or dangerous cost. Think weapons that drain the users hit points when their special ability is used, or reduce an ability score while attuned.
A selection of traps to populate your dungeons with, spread across various environments and tiers of play
A selection of dungeons that are ready to use, including monsters, traps, curses, loot, and a final boss (basically pulling from all the previous bullet points)
Basically a physical Book of Vile Darkness product should, imo, be a DM facing product of lots of nasty (but fun) things to throw at your players.
It could then be accompanied by a Book of Exalted Deeds product as a simultaneous release (like the two Faerun books coming up) that contains various exceptionally heroic subclasses, spells, and other character facing options.
tldr- Book of Vile Deeds as a DM book of monsters, curses and cursed magic items, traps etc, and Book of Exalted Deeds as a PC book of subclasses, spells, boons, titles, bastion options etc
If i said the things that i wanted in a New Book of Vile Darkness, i wouldn't just be banned from this forum, i would be thrown into the sun.
For a more serious response though, i am fine with not having an update and coming up with my own depraved things to use on my players. That way i am able to tailor it to their comfort level. After a certain incident, i am much more cautious about macabre content I include, and i like to get a feel of what people can handle before i introduce anything of the sort.
A book of Exalted deeds though... that i want. I will admit that when it comes to tailoring for my players Divine options, i struggle a little more than i do being a depraved maniac who grew up on slasher and Body horror films.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player. The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call To rise up in triumph should we all unite The spark for change is yours to ignite." Kalandra - The State of the World
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I'm not talking about the game item. I'm asking if someone wrote a 5E Book of Vile Darkness as a companion book, like the 3E book, what sort of useful info for gameplay do you think should be put in?
If it were up to me, it would have some more powerful necromancy spells, new monsters in the forms of fiends and undead, more detailed info on Demon Lords and Archdevils, (including stats and adventure options with any of them as the villain) and more detailed options for creating your own Demon Lord, Archdevil, and making new Layers of the Abyss or redecorating one of the Circles of the 9 Hells. And like the original, it includes options for what happens if your PC gets possessed by a Demon.
I'd also include the methods needed for PC's to become liches, as well as options for creating a homebrew lich of your own. Including phylactery ideas and methods of destroying them.
In other words, I think a 5E Book of VIle Darkness companion should give PC's options for making and roleplaying as evil PC's, and options for making more Dark Fantasy and mature campaigns. So even those who still wish to be on the side of good can still find useful info.
What would you put in if you were asked to write a Book of Vile Darkness companion book for 5E?
I think that everything you have said makes sense, but in addition maybe information on evil non-demonic entities like Vecna, and maybe even some information on Elder Evils/Gods.
Maybe even some information on the Yugoloths, Hordlings and Demodands?
I feel like edgy, evil products like the OG Book of Vile Darkness supplement are an overall detriment to the official product line. Evil play is not, IMO, conducive to D&D in a general sense and is something that should very much be constructed as a bespoke experience at the table level. Basically I don't think official D&D products should ever cater to or endorse evil play.
That being said, I think if there was going to be a Book of Vile Darkness 5th edition product, it should be a collection of the following:
Basically a physical Book of Vile Darkness product should, imo, be a DM facing product of lots of nasty (but fun) things to throw at your players.
It could then be accompanied by a Book of Exalted Deeds product as a simultaneous release (like the two Faerun books coming up) that contains various exceptionally heroic subclasses, spells, and other character facing options.
tldr- Book of Vile Deeds as a DM book of monsters, curses and cursed magic items, traps etc, and Book of Exalted Deeds as a PC book of subclasses, spells, boons, titles, bastion options etc
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
I've got the 3e Book of Vile Darkness and it is really a DM resource although the book also comes with a sticker on the front "Warning! Content is intended for mature audiences only." so given the rest of its contents I really don't see it coming over to 5e.
Having said that I still occasionally use "Vile Damage" which is basically damage that can only be healed with magic that is cast within the area of a Hallow spell.
PC evil options such as Revenant, Shade, Dhampyr, Oathbreaker Paladin, Death Cleric, Necromancer Wizard
New poisons, toxins, drugs
New curse, disease, afflictions
Lycanthropy rules for PC
Blood magic
New evil monsters of any type
Optional rules for Undeads control
Fiend summoning and contract
If I was to take a stab at TBOVD, I'd probably look at it as a guide for how to run "Evil" campaigns; ones where the players are essentially the villains of the story as well as how to handle consequences for "good" characters doing a downfall.
Also I'd include the Blackguard for paladin so that there is a legitimate "evil" option and people stop thinking breaking their oath is a "Pro gamer move".
As to GM options: I'd focus on curses and blights. Not those little "Oh noes, I have a penalty on my rolls for a minute if someone doesn't cast a 3rd level spell" curses. I'm talking about the ones which are creeping dooms or condemn vast regions with both descriptions of their effects and what it takes to actually beat them (which should never, ever be simple/easy).
I don't think a 5e BoVD and BoED would be doable due to Hasbro.
They'd probably mandate WotC make both books grey-er, morality-wise, to appeal to the median customer the chart says exists. Because consequences turn off that guy on the chart.
DM, player & homebrewer(Current homebrew project is an unofficial conversion of SBURB/SGRUB from Homestuck into DND 5e)
Once made Maxwell's Silver Hammer come down upon Strahd's head to make sure he was dead.
Always study & sharpen philosophical razors. They save a lot of trouble.
More or les what the 4e BoVD was
They will never make a 5e BoVD and that is a good thing.
"The philosophers have only interpreted the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it." -Karl Marx
If i said the things that i wanted in a New Book of Vile Darkness, i wouldn't just be banned from this forum, i would be thrown into the sun.
For a more serious response though, i am fine with not having an update and coming up with my own depraved things to use on my players. That way i am able to tailor it to their comfort level. After a certain incident, i am much more cautious about macabre content I include, and i like to get a feel of what people can handle before i introduce anything of the sort.
A book of Exalted deeds though... that i want. I will admit that when it comes to tailoring for my players Divine options, i struggle a little more than i do being a depraved maniac who grew up on slasher and Body horror films.
He/Him. Loooooooooong time Player.
The Dark days of the THAC0 system are behind us.
"Hope is a fire that burns in us all If only an ember, awaiting your call
To rise up in triumph should we all unite
The spark for change is yours to ignite."
Kalandra - The State of the World