I'm in a group in the wilderness without a ranger type in the group. The highest survival we have is the monk with a +3 due to his wisdom score. My wizard was a lab assistant that was in charge of dissecting the master's experiments. Should I push that my wizard with proficiency in Medicine should be able to use that skill to retrieve the dragon scales rather then the common Survival?
I understand rule 0 but is there room to suggest an alternative?
As with most things, it depends on the DM, and the case you make. I personally if you explained it that way would allow for it, only if your lab assistant work was with dissections of other beings. Medicine generally applies to knowing about how to heal or deal with injury, but if you made a good enough case I might allow a different check. I'd also change the check though to a Dexterity (Medicine) because you have to be not only knowledgeable in how to remove the scales, but also be dexterous enough to do it.
I'm in a group in the wilderness without a ranger type in the group. The highest survival we have is the monk with a +3 due to his wisdom score. My wizard was a lab assistant that was in charge of dissecting the master's experiments. Should I push that my wizard with proficiency in Medicine should be able to use that skill to retrieve the dragon scales rather then the common Survival?
Putting on my DM hat:
I'm not sure how medicine helps you here, but perhaps I don't understand the context. All PHB says of medicine is, and I quote, "A Wisdom (Medicine) check lets you try to stabilize a dying companion or diagnose an illness." How are dragon scales an "illness"?
Now if you wanted to argue that Nature should apply, I'd be willing to consider that. But I don't see how Medicine would help you "retrieve dragon scales."
But maybe I don't understand what "retrieve" means. If it means "successfully extract them via surgery after the dragon is killed," then yeah, medicine is your go-to. But if you mean "track the dragon through the woods to find him," I have no idea how medicine would apply at all. It's not even remotely in the same ballpark.
Sometimes you just have to accept that a party may not have a particular skill and may have a hard time doing something. As a DM, I probably wouldn't make it so that if you didn't have survival the whole adventure is hosed. And I would be open to other skills that might be useful (perception, investigation, nature). But you can't just use any old skill that wouldn't apply, and I don't see how medicine applies here.
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Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I'm in a group in the wilderness without a ranger type in the group. The highest survival we have is the monk with a +3 due to his wisdom score. My wizard was a lab assistant that was in charge of dissecting the master's experiments. Should I push that my wizard with proficiency in Medicine should be able to use that skill to retrieve the dragon scales rather then the common Survival?
Putting on my DM hat:
I'm not sure how medicine helps you here, but perhaps I don't understand the context. All PHB says of medicine is, and I quote, "A Wisdom (Medicine) check lets you try to stabilize a dying companion or diagnose an illness." How are dragon scales an "illness"?
Now if you wanted to argue that Nature should apply, I'd be willing to consider that. But I don't see how Medicine would help you "retrieve dragon scales."
But maybe I don't understand what "retrieve" means. If it means "successfully extract them via surgery after the dragon is killed," then yeah, medicine is your go-to. But if you mean "track the dragon through the woods to find him," I have no idea how medicine would apply at all. It's not even remotely in the same ballpark.
Sometimes you just have to accept that a party may not have a particular skill and may have a hard time doing something. As a DM, I probably wouldn't make it so that if you didn't have survival the whole adventure is hosed. And I would be open to other skills that might be useful (perception, investigation, nature). But you can't just use any old skill that wouldn't apply, and I don't see how medicine applies here.
I think many DMs look at the PHB skill explanations and don't strictly limit them to just that. Part of that comes for the Variant rule of skill checks. But if you think of Medicine and the "knowledge" required to stabilize a person, you are obviously going to be using things like sutures and stitching. So like I mentioned if a PC could convince me their skill with a scalpel and how delicately they can use it, I would allow them to roll a medicine to remove the scales, but like I said above I wouldn't use Wisdom medicine, I'd use Dex (Medice). Allow them to apply their proficiency due to training, but make it DEX based because they need to remove the scale without damaging it.
I guess it is also an idea of expanding the uses of under-served skills vs "What it says on the tin". My wizard is an Island of Dr Moreau type transmutation wizard that specializes in body parts but I didn't want to make the question to specific.
Technically Nursing, Surgery and Pathology are all medicine.
Though I've done it many times, I guess players are not supposed to ask if we can roll a particular DC when we want to do something. Im told we're supposed to describe exactly what we do and then the DM is supposed to tell us if we need to roll and what for.
If you are able to say to your DM, and remember...you have no experience skinning or de-scaling a dragon (which someone experienced in survival or nature might have an advantage over you)...but you say to your DM, "well I'm looking at the scales and they're look pretty tough, the whole thing looks very rough, so first I'm going to take 5mins and really hone my dagger's edge to razor sharpness, to best prepare to cut through the hide, while I think about how the heck I'm going to do this. Then, I recall Mr Gover, and how he came to us with a chronic ingrown toenail. And I recall how one day we just agreed that it had to be removed. And I recall how we had to separate the nail from the nailbed, cutting deep into the toe, above and below the surface of the nail, and on the edges, and how we had to take a thin pliers and pull flat and hard to get the nail out, once we'd dissected it from the surrounding tissue. And I know we dont have any pliers but I take about 30mins to gather up two knifes, a wire and a small flat stone. And fashion a crude pincer out of it all so that I can use it to grab the scale and pull. And I use my super sharp dagger to dissect under the scale, feeling for the natural angle of entry, deep along the bottom and the on the top side of the scale, cutting deep and flat with the surfaces of the scale, deep into the skin. And I then I possition the make shift pincers. So that they are slid in to grab the front and back faces of the scale, and the I call the barbarian to help me by grabing hold of the pincers and I show him just how to squeeze so he's grabbing the scale tight, and then I tell him to pull the scale out with all his might and to pull it flat to the other scales",...the DM may give you a nature check anyway, but give you advantage on the roll because of the assist. You could still ask for medical, and because you described it in relation to your medical experience, it might make more sense to them than they would have thought that of course you should roll out for medical.
But if all you say is "I want to remove the scales and remember I have a medical background"...it leaves very little to rule on.
I'm in a group in the wilderness without a ranger type in the group. The highest survival we have is the monk with a +3 due to his wisdom score. My wizard was a lab assistant that was in charge of dissecting the master's experiments. Should I push that my wizard with proficiency in Medicine should be able to use that skill to retrieve the dragon scales rather then the common Survival?
I understand rule 0 but is there room to suggest an alternative?
As with most things, it depends on the DM, and the case you make. I personally if you explained it that way would allow for it, only if your lab assistant work was with dissections of other beings. Medicine generally applies to knowing about how to heal or deal with injury, but if you made a good enough case I might allow a different check. I'd also change the check though to a Dexterity (Medicine) because you have to be not only knowledgeable in how to remove the scales, but also be dexterous enough to do it.
Putting on my DM hat:
I'm not sure how medicine helps you here, but perhaps I don't understand the context. All PHB says of medicine is, and I quote, "A Wisdom (Medicine) check lets you try to stabilize a dying companion or diagnose an illness." How are dragon scales an "illness"?
Now if you wanted to argue that Nature should apply, I'd be willing to consider that. But I don't see how Medicine would help you "retrieve dragon scales."
But maybe I don't understand what "retrieve" means. If it means "successfully extract them via surgery after the dragon is killed," then yeah, medicine is your go-to. But if you mean "track the dragon through the woods to find him," I have no idea how medicine would apply at all. It's not even remotely in the same ballpark.
Sometimes you just have to accept that a party may not have a particular skill and may have a hard time doing something. As a DM, I probably wouldn't make it so that if you didn't have survival the whole adventure is hosed. And I would be open to other skills that might be useful (perception, investigation, nature). But you can't just use any old skill that wouldn't apply, and I don't see how medicine applies here.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I think many DMs look at the PHB skill explanations and don't strictly limit them to just that. Part of that comes for the Variant rule of skill checks. But if you think of Medicine and the "knowledge" required to stabilize a person, you are obviously going to be using things like sutures and stitching. So like I mentioned if a PC could convince me their skill with a scalpel and how delicately they can use it, I would allow them to roll a medicine to remove the scales, but like I said above I wouldn't use Wisdom medicine, I'd use Dex (Medice). Allow them to apply their proficiency due to training, but make it DEX based because they need to remove the scale without damaging it.
I guess it is also an idea of expanding the uses of under-served skills vs "What it says on the tin". My wizard is an Island of Dr Moreau type transmutation wizard that specializes in body parts but I didn't want to make the question to specific.
Technically Nursing, Surgery and Pathology are all medicine.
Though I've done it many times, I guess players are not supposed to ask if we can roll a particular DC when we want to do something. Im told we're supposed to describe exactly what we do and then the DM is supposed to tell us if we need to roll and what for.
If you are able to say to your DM, and remember...you have no experience skinning or de-scaling a dragon (which someone experienced in survival or nature might have an advantage over you)...but you say to your DM, "well I'm looking at the scales and they're look pretty tough, the whole thing looks very rough, so first I'm going to take 5mins and really hone my dagger's edge to razor sharpness, to best prepare to cut through the hide, while I think about how the heck I'm going to do this. Then, I recall Mr Gover, and how he came to us with a chronic ingrown toenail. And I recall how one day we just agreed that it had to be removed. And I recall how we had to separate the nail from the nailbed, cutting deep into the toe, above and below the surface of the nail, and on the edges, and how we had to take a thin pliers and pull flat and hard to get the nail out, once we'd dissected it from the surrounding tissue. And I know we dont have any pliers but I take about 30mins to gather up two knifes, a wire and a small flat stone. And fashion a crude pincer out of it all so that I can use it to grab the scale and pull. And I use my super sharp dagger to dissect under the scale, feeling for the natural angle of entry, deep along the bottom and the on the top side of the scale, cutting deep and flat with the surfaces of the scale, deep into the skin. And I then I possition the make shift pincers. So that they are slid in to grab the front and back faces of the scale, and the I call the barbarian to help me by grabing hold of the pincers and I show him just how to squeeze so he's grabbing the scale tight, and then I tell him to pull the scale out with all his might and to pull it flat to the other scales",...the DM may give you a nature check anyway, but give you advantage on the roll because of the assist. You could still ask for medical, and because you described it in relation to your medical experience, it might make more sense to them than they would have thought that of course you should roll out for medical.
But if all you say is "I want to remove the scales and remember I have a medical background"...it leaves very little to rule on.