When you've played a campaign from first level, all the way to the fourth tier levels, 17th through 20th, what are your expectations of this stage in the campaign?
As a DM, how do you meet these expectations for your players in your game?
if you're a player what do you expect in adventures at this level?
It really depends on the style of the campaign up to that point, but to phrase generally that tier of play is for the ultimate conclusion of those characters' tale (even if they become the background of another tale).
For specific examples, I present the "4th tier" portions of a few of my campaigns:
For a campaign in which the characters have been fighting a secret war to preserve time and space, the level 17+ section is when they and their draconic allies make their assault upon the time-traveling conquerors from the future, with battles in locations such as a secret moon base, a desolate far-future world, and an extra-dimensional time bubble in which the enemy force's commanders are attempting to hide.
For a campaign in which the characters were typical adventurers, but settled into rulership roles around 10th level with only occasional adventures after that point, the level 17+ section is when their plans for the long-term welfare of their territories reach a head with their ultimate obstacle (which will either be facing down chosen servants of deities they've angered along the way, or the relationships they've developed with other territories being strained in a dramatic fashion).
For a campaign in which the characters are going to be adventuring in a huge dungeon the entire time (because the story is that the defacto party leader is on a mission from his deity to hunt down and destroy Orcus deep in the bowls of Rappan Athuk), the level 17+ section is levels of dungeon stuffed full of demons and undead, culminating with a fight against a deific demon and a small army of undead and maybe also some other demons too.
It really depends on the style of the campaign up to that point, but to phrase generally that tier of play is for the ultimate conclusion of those characters' tale (even if they become the background of another tale).
I agree with this as I've found the most success in using High-Tier as sessions that are driving towards the conclusion of these PC's story.
Typically, that has resulted in:
Concluding with them as NPC's whether that be a diety, folk-legend, or villain, etc to make the setting feel more player-impacted if we play again in the same setting with new characters.
Wrapping-up any story loose-ends over the course of the player's journey (backgrounds, plots, mysteries).
All combined with an atmosphere of imminent risk of failure/death given the stakes at that level of play. A lot of work is making it feel like they have a glimmer of hope against incredible and nearly unimaginable odds.
Their pre-4th tier adventures should be tied into this conclusion somehow whether through an item they've held onto but disregarded, an NPC that returns to redeem or betray them or some event from their past that is now coming back to haunt or save them. I like to make my events feel organic and tied to their earlier adventures which usually requires planning it at an early stage.
These are honestly some of the harder one's to DM in my experience from both a player satisfaction to how to make it a balanced challenge. Overall, as a DM I want this to be the final chapter and feel epic in scale while feeling like it ends in a way that feels like "closure".
Another thing I like to do is start setting up the next campaign if I know these players are going to retire and start new characters. If there's ways I can tie in an intro in these late stages for the next campaign (ex: whatever the ending is, their new characters somehow are tied into it). I've been lucky enough to run one campaign where the party had already made their new characters and I was able to subtly introduce them so that when the new campaign started, their characters were already framed in the setting by their old party (they were witness to the final battle, etc).
All in all, up the anty and go wild. Should be an enjoyable end to a tale at least.
You want to read page 37 of the DMG, which outlines the four tiers of play: 1-4 ("local heroes"), 5-10 ("heroes of the realm"), 11-16 ("masters of the realm"), and 17-20 ("masters of the world"). In the latter, it notes that characters start finding legendary magic items, and adventures have consequences that impact the entire world and often other realms of the multiverse. This contrasts effectively with the more limited/intimate scope of lower-level play. It is common at higher levels (especially 20+) to have players moving to the Planes for adventures (mostly because it is jarring to have a ton of CR20 monsters running around the Prime Material), which also works because this is the only level of play at which traveling to the Planes is reasonably safe to do.
You want to read page 37 of the DMG, which outlines the four tiers of play: 1-4 ("local heroes"), 5-10 ("heroes of the realm"), 11-16 ("masters of the realm"), and 17-20 ("masters of the world"). In the latter, it notes that characters start finding legendary magic items, and adventures have consequences that impact the entire world and often other realms of the multiverse. This contrasts effectively with the more limited/intimate scope of lower-level play. It is common at higher levels (especially 20+) to have players moving to the Planes for adventures (mostly because it is jarring to have a ton of CR20 monsters running around the Prime Material), which also works because this is the only level of play at which traveling to the Planes is reasonably safe to do.
Thanks for your reply!
I have read through this material in the DMG, and previous DMGs as well (being the old school player I am).
I guess I should have specified that I was looking for a more personalized account or desire for each player.
To clarify a little further, adventurers are always going to interesting locations. Part of that at higher levels can be the players visiting other planes, but I am wondering what details of the process that people are intrigued by most. Is it the final confrontation with a villain that was previously too powerful? Is it the culmination of the players efforts finally coming to a head? Did that army you spent the whole time amassing grow to a formidible legion poised to strike your enemies horde?
Also, what is fulfilling to your character at this stage? What are resolutions that you think should be met?
When you've played a campaign from first level, all the way to the fourth tier levels, 17th through 20th, what are your expectations of this stage in the campaign?
As a DM, how do you meet these expectations for your players in your game?
if you're a player what do you expect in adventures at this level?
"What you saw belongs to you. A story doesn't live until it is imagined in someone's mind."
― Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings
It really depends on the style of the campaign up to that point, but to phrase generally that tier of play is for the ultimate conclusion of those characters' tale (even if they become the background of another tale).
For specific examples, I present the "4th tier" portions of a few of my campaigns:
For a campaign in which the characters have been fighting a secret war to preserve time and space, the level 17+ section is when they and their draconic allies make their assault upon the time-traveling conquerors from the future, with battles in locations such as a secret moon base, a desolate far-future world, and an extra-dimensional time bubble in which the enemy force's commanders are attempting to hide.
For a campaign in which the characters were typical adventurers, but settled into rulership roles around 10th level with only occasional adventures after that point, the level 17+ section is when their plans for the long-term welfare of their territories reach a head with their ultimate obstacle (which will either be facing down chosen servants of deities they've angered along the way, or the relationships they've developed with other territories being strained in a dramatic fashion).
For a campaign in which the characters are going to be adventuring in a huge dungeon the entire time (because the story is that the defacto party leader is on a mission from his deity to hunt down and destroy Orcus deep in the bowls of Rappan Athuk), the level 17+ section is levels of dungeon stuffed full of demons and undead, culminating with a fight against a deific demon and a small army of undead and maybe also some other demons too.
I agree with this as I've found the most success in using High-Tier as sessions that are driving towards the conclusion of these PC's story.
Typically, that has resulted in:
These are honestly some of the harder one's to DM in my experience from both a player satisfaction to how to make it a balanced challenge. Overall, as a DM I want this to be the final chapter and feel epic in scale while feeling like it ends in a way that feels like "closure".
Another thing I like to do is start setting up the next campaign if I know these players are going to retire and start new characters. If there's ways I can tie in an intro in these late stages for the next campaign (ex: whatever the ending is, their new characters somehow are tied into it). I've been lucky enough to run one campaign where the party had already made their new characters and I was able to subtly introduce them so that when the new campaign started, their characters were already framed in the setting by their old party (they were witness to the final battle, etc).
All in all, up the anty and go wild. Should be an enjoyable end to a tale at least.
You want to read page 37 of the DMG, which outlines the four tiers of play: 1-4 ("local heroes"), 5-10 ("heroes of the realm"), 11-16 ("masters of the realm"), and 17-20 ("masters of the world"). In the latter, it notes that characters start finding legendary magic items, and adventures have consequences that impact the entire world and often other realms of the multiverse. This contrasts effectively with the more limited/intimate scope of lower-level play. It is common at higher levels (especially 20+) to have players moving to the Planes for adventures (mostly because it is jarring to have a ton of CR20 monsters running around the Prime Material), which also works because this is the only level of play at which traveling to the Planes is reasonably safe to do.
Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile.
"What you saw belongs to you. A story doesn't live until it is imagined in someone's mind."
― Brandon Sanderson, The Way of Kings