How can you make a melee character, like a Barbarian or a Fighter, become as useful as Wizard or a Bard, in and out of combat? Solving situations both RPing and cracking skulls...
They dont have as many tools as Casters, but how can they improve and have the same value to the party on all 3 pillars (combat, social and exploration)?
Or the secret is just accept that they wont be as useful and just play with what you got?
Edit: Just to clarify, Im not trying to diminish the melee classes. Matter of fact, most times I played as melee. I'm just trying to raise some questions and see what you guys have to say about it based on your gameplay experience.
I think a lot of that comes down to the player and the table. If the biggest personality/best BS-artist/fastest talker is the Fighter, that's going to come through no matter what the dice rolls are. If the Barbarian's player is the one who pays attention and takes notes, they end up in a leadership role no matter what their CHA is.
Background can make a difference. It might give a character social station or even legal authority.
Make sure you and your DM are on the same page about downtime training and take advantage of it if it's available, for things like languages or skill with tools. Get creative about the skill with tools. Cartography or Navigation to help with pathfinding. Herbalism to help with foraging edible plants. Thieves' Tools to give you another string to your bow. Any number of tools can give you entree into different strata of society, whether you're a painter or a chef or a master chess player.
Pretty much anything that a character can do or may need, there is a spell for that. But the spellcaster has to know and prepare that possibly niche spell. Most characters have the capacity to perform some amount of the tasks you would want spells for (climbing, swimming, sneaking, moving something, making a disguise, convincing a crowd, etc).
Spells are a limited resource, ingenuity isn't.
Martial characters have features to keep them similarly strong to casters in combat. For the most part, casters are balanced by having low HP and/or AC.
Just wondering... On Campaigns that a DM doesn't create a lot of encounters per day, casters might come out ahead.
Yes, of course. That's why the DM should be aware of the power curve and diminish the number of scenarios where "nuking" is the correct answer. Fighters, on the other hand, have a ton of abilities that come back on a short rest. They keep going longer, which is useful if the party is under a time pressure or cannot risk a long rest because of wandering monsters. Because if casters can just cast all of their best spells in every encounter, yes, they will just be more effective characters than fighters. Likewise, if DMs NEVER let you take a long rest, casters would quickly become dead weight.
There is no reason that one would HAVE to play a fighter or barbarian as a muscle bound idiot. As a very nerdy person, I can safely say our bias as nerds is showing in such depictions. Ghenghis Khan was not a bodybuilder. But he was a barbarian. He didn't conquer Asia by going into rages, nor did his troops. They were masters of psychological warfare and often outsmarted their opponents. A fighter is someone who is skilled with arms. They can also be smart characters. My favourite fighter's best skills were insight, history and persuade.
Out of combat usefulness (or usefulness in general) doesn't come from the skills you have anyhow-- it comes from the creativity you bring to the table. It's finding solutions to problems and not expecting the dice to be the answer to every challenge.
Shouldn’t be hard if you pick the right race and feats. A half elf barbarian would have a couple extra skills, you can always take ritual casting for some spells. The more you divert from being the pure melee to be more versatile the weaker a fighter you’ll be. Same with making a Wizard more survivable by getting tough or armor proficiencies with feats.
Well fighters get more feats than any other class so they could definitely use those for a variety of RP or exploration things. You could also take one of the several subclasses that give extra skills and proficiency's like the purple dragon knight or the samurai. If you wanted to have more control over the battlefield the way that the wizards or bards can, consider playing the cavalier. Another option would be to take a race that provides some benefit that would otherwise be exclusive to casters. For example, you could take a drow for fairy fire.
The RP hooks are a little more up to you but the with feats you can certainly do plenty of exploration type stuff!
I think a lot of that comes down to the player and the table. If the biggest personality/best BS-artist/fastest talker is the Fighter, that's going to come through no matter what the dice rolls are. If the Barbarian's player is the one who pays attention and takes notes, they end up in a leadership role no matter what their CHA is.
Background can make a difference. It might give a character social station or even legal authority.
Make sure you and your DM are on the same page about downtime training and take advantage of it if it's available, for things like languages or skill with tools. Get creative about the skill with tools. Cartography or Navigation to help with pathfinding. Herbalism to help with foraging edible plants. Thieves' Tools to give you another string to your bow. Any number of tools can give you entree into different strata of society, whether you're a painter or a chef or a master chess player.
Pretty much anything that a character can do or may need, there is a spell for that. But the spellcaster has to know and prepare that possibly niche spell. Most characters have the capacity to perform some amount of the tasks you would want spells for (climbing, swimming, sneaking, moving something, making a disguise, convincing a crowd, etc).
Spells are a limited resource, ingenuity isn't.
Martial characters have features to keep them similarly strong to casters in combat. For the most part, casters are balanced by having low HP and/or AC.
Just wondering... On Campaigns that a DM doesn't create a lot of encounters per day, casters might come out ahead.
Yes, of course. That's why the DM should be aware of the power curve and diminish the number of scenarios where "nuking" is the correct answer. Fighters, on the other hand, have a ton of abilities that come back on a short rest. They keep going longer, which is useful if the party is under a time pressure or cannot risk a long rest because of wandering monsters. Because if casters can just cast all of their best spells in every encounter, yes, they will just be more effective characters than fighters. Likewise, if DMs NEVER let you take a long rest, casters would quickly become dead weight.
There is no reason that one would HAVE to play a fighter or barbarian as a muscle bound idiot. As a very nerdy person, I can safely say our bias as nerds is showing in such depictions. Ghenghis Khan was not a bodybuilder. But he was a barbarian. He didn't conquer Asia by going into rages, nor did his troops. They were masters of psychological warfare and often outsmarted their opponents. A fighter is someone who is skilled with arms. They can also be smart characters. My favourite fighter's best skills were insight, history and persuade.
Out of combat usefulness (or usefulness in general) doesn't come from the skills you have anyhow-- it comes from the creativity you bring to the table. It's finding solutions to problems and not expecting the dice to be the answer to every challenge.
Shouldn’t be hard if you pick the right race and feats. A half elf barbarian would have a couple extra skills, you can always take ritual casting for some spells. The more you divert from being the pure melee to be more versatile the weaker a fighter you’ll be. Same with making a Wizard more survivable by getting tough or armor proficiencies with feats.
Well fighters get more feats than any other class so they could definitely use those for a variety of RP or exploration things. You could also take one of the several subclasses that give extra skills and proficiency's like the purple dragon knight or the samurai. If you wanted to have more control over the battlefield the way that the wizards or bards can, consider playing the cavalier. Another option would be to take a race that provides some benefit that would otherwise be exclusive to casters. For example, you could take a drow for fairy fire.
The RP hooks are a little more up to you but the with feats you can certainly do plenty of exploration type stuff!
Thats an awesome example indeed! @Verenti