I’m planning my next character for when i finish DM’n my campaign. I’m stepping away from Fighter/Barbarian, I’ve briefly played Wizard and I really like it and want a long term character.
My idea is a Tiefling Wizard, that’s deceptive and great at talking their way in or out of a situation. I know the Wizard uses INT for casting, but I’ve had a chat with my buddy who’s taking over as DM and asked if I could make a Wizard that uses CHA to cast, he said yes.
is there anything I’m missing? Am I making a broken OP character? Or breaking anything? Or can I crack on 👍🏻
thanks!
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I carry two swords. One of silver for creatures that roam the wild. One of steel for humans in their cities of stone. Both are for monsters.
Why not just play a sorcerer if you want a CHA based caster?
ETA: There's also no reason why you can't be a regular INT based wizard and still have a good CHA. My wizard in my last game had a CHA of 14 and was proficient in Persuasion because I thought it fit her Noble background.
I know I can have INT and CHA both high, I was just wondering if I could focus on CHA then I’m killing two birds with one stone, just didn’t know if it caused any problems.
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I carry two swords. One of silver for creatures that roam the wild. One of steel for humans in their cities of stone. Both are for monsters.
If your DM approves, I don't really see a problem with it. There might be some downsides if you stick to standard Wizard stats while simply changing your casting modifier to CHA... you don't get CHA as a saving throw, for one. But other than that it mostly just results in a character who isn't as proficient at the kind of things a Wizard usually is.
My issue is that switching the primary spell casting stat alters the game balance: pretty much makes the PC the opposite of MAD. For the record this is a bad thing! This is the same problem Hexblade Warlocks possess. By shunting so much on to one or two stats, the other stats are effectively dump stats. This is not what the designers ever intended.
Thanks for the advice, obviously as it’s something I wanted to play I knew I’d miss the downsides to it so thanks for that.
Surely every class has it’s dump stats? Such as a Barbarian, as long as you’ve got STR and CON nothing else matters! Haha.
I don’t intend to try and just focus on INT/CHA, I do want my character to be an all rounder. I want good health and the ability to be stealthy and athletic so I’m trying to cover a bit of everything. Although I do get what you’re saying, I might just play a standard Wizard and try to have good CHA too.
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I carry two swords. One of silver for creatures that roam the wild. One of steel for humans in their cities of stone. Both are for monsters.
Main downside is related to Arcana checks. Kind of a bummer if your CHA wizard keeps finding scrolls to add to their spellbook but keeps failing at the attempt because of a poor Arcana roll. Other things like magic items tailored to wizards can be an issue for the same reason.
I'd just stick to the normal rules and put you 2nd stat into Charisma and make sure you take the "Friend" cantrip.
As others have said this does mean you can dump an extra stat. It's not so much that it breaks the game more that you now increase to chance step on the toes of other party members by having stats elsewhere.
Plus it depending on how you do stats Just 1 ASI brings you back to a 16 Intelligence which you can ride with through to level 12 at least.
Surely every class has it’s dump stats? Such as a Barbarian, as long as you’ve got STR and CON nothing else matters! Haha.
Your typical Outlander background Barbarian also wants DEX and WIS (for animal handing, perception, and survival). He also might want CHA because that is the attribute he will need to rally his tribe around him to face the onslaught of the orc horde.
The only classes I have encountered that have the ability to deprioritize more than one stat is the Hexblade Warlock. The Hexblade can drop STR and DEX and still be an effective melee combatant. If they don't like INT or WIS that is another two dumps. They only need CON and CHA to be not only functional but viable.
You can go with a half elf instead of Tiefling so you can get the Charisma bonus as well as put a point in INT. I wouldn't mess with the primary stats of a class, nor would I want a caster with a low INT anyway. Just dump another stat for flavor, have a low wisdom and be cocky with your high charisma and run in guns blazing or be the prototypical weak wizard.
On one hand, I don't think switching the spellcasting stat to CHA will necessarily break anything. I can't think of anything that will be horribly unbalanced. So if I were a DM and you really really wanted to do it, I'd probably allow it.
But... I'm a little skeptical that it's a good idea, and I'd try to talk you out of it.
First, there's ALREADY three CHA-focused casters - Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock - and a CHA half-caster (Paladin). Wizard is LITERALLY the only class in the PHB that's INT-focused. And you're proposing picking that class... and then changing one of its most unique features. If you really want a CHA caster, why not pick one of those three?
Second, it's a little weird thematically, to me. Wizards are supposed to get their power by detailed and careful study - textbook example of a character getting their power from their INT. It goes with the ability to be good at Arcana and makes them pretty knowledgeable with History, Nature, Investigation, Religion. It would be a bit weird to have a Wizard that's bad at those things.
I don’t intend to try and just focus on INT/CHA, I do want my character to be an all rounder. I want good health and the ability to be stealthy and athletic so I’m trying to cover a bit of everything. Although I do get what you’re saying, I might just play a standard Wizard and try to have good CHA too.
Interestingly, I think INT-focused wizards ARE actually really good all-rounders, because of the huge spell selection wizards can get, and because they can cast rituals from their spellbook. I played a wizard and I found that one way to be all-around effective was to have the right spell for the right time. A Familiar or Unseen Servant can solve lots of situations. You want to be stealthy? Invisibility, or illusions, or Disguise Self. Strong? Enlarge/Reduce, cast on self. Bam you're big. Or just levitate stuff. Persuasive? Charm person, Friends. Though those have drawbacks, so maybe you do want just a good CHA for that instead, if you play a high INT high CHA wizard you're gonna be able to cover basically anything you need to do.
That said, if you're looking for a true all-arounder, that's probably Bard. Caster AND an excellent skill-monkey AND has jack of all trades AND can be a melee or ranged combatant AND has more health than a wizard. Literally anything you want with Bard, you can build them to be great at it, or you can build them to be good at everything.
You can go with a half elf instead of Tiefling so you can get the Charisma bonus as well as put a point in INT.
As opposed to Tiefling that gets a +2 Charisma bonus as well as +1 point in INT?
And another stat increase on top of 2 more skills. Not a huge difference but stat and skill wise a little better especially if you are going to be a face and still have Arcana and Investigation as an INT based class.
Rather than a Charisma based Wizard, you probably have a stronger argument to make Persuasion/Intimidation/Deception Intelligence based, if that's what you're after
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Hi all,
I’m planning my next character for when i finish DM’n my campaign. I’m stepping away from Fighter/Barbarian, I’ve briefly played Wizard and I really like it and want a long term character.
My idea is a Tiefling Wizard, that’s deceptive and great at talking their way in or out of a situation. I know the Wizard uses INT for casting, but I’ve had a chat with my buddy who’s taking over as DM and asked if I could make a Wizard that uses CHA to cast, he said yes.
is there anything I’m missing? Am I making a broken OP character? Or breaking anything? Or can I crack on 👍🏻
thanks!
I carry two swords. One of silver for creatures that roam the wild. One of steel for humans in their cities of stone. Both are for monsters.
Why not just play a sorcerer if you want a CHA based caster?
ETA: There's also no reason why you can't be a regular INT based wizard and still have a good CHA. My wizard in my last game had a CHA of 14 and was proficient in Persuasion because I thought it fit her Noble background.
"We're the perfect combination of expendable and unkillable!"
Yeah I’m not a fan of the Sorcerer class.
I know I can have INT and CHA both high, I was just wondering if I could focus on CHA then I’m killing two birds with one stone, just didn’t know if it caused any problems.
I carry two swords. One of silver for creatures that roam the wild. One of steel for humans in their cities of stone. Both are for monsters.
If your DM approves, I don't really see a problem with it. There might be some downsides if you stick to standard Wizard stats while simply changing your casting modifier to CHA... you don't get CHA as a saving throw, for one. But other than that it mostly just results in a character who isn't as proficient at the kind of things a Wizard usually is.
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Ok, thanks! I’ll sit down tonight and have a proper think about it 👍🏻
I carry two swords. One of silver for creatures that roam the wild. One of steel for humans in their cities of stone. Both are for monsters.
My issue is that switching the primary spell casting stat alters the game balance: pretty much makes the PC the opposite of MAD. For the record this is a bad thing! This is the same problem Hexblade Warlocks possess. By shunting so much on to one or two stats, the other stats are effectively dump stats. This is not what the designers ever intended.
I agree with Hawksmoor.
Anyway, why not re-fluff a lore bard as a wizard?
Thanks for the advice, obviously as it’s something I wanted to play I knew I’d miss the downsides to it so thanks for that.
Surely every class has it’s dump stats? Such as a Barbarian, as long as you’ve got STR and CON nothing else matters! Haha.
I don’t intend to try and just focus on INT/CHA, I do want my character to be an all rounder. I want good health and the ability to be stealthy and athletic so I’m trying to cover a bit of everything. Although I do get what you’re saying, I might just play a standard Wizard and try to have good CHA too.
I carry two swords. One of silver for creatures that roam the wild. One of steel for humans in their cities of stone. Both are for monsters.
Main downside is related to Arcana checks. Kind of a bummer if your CHA wizard keeps finding scrolls to add to their spellbook but keeps failing at the attempt because of a poor Arcana roll. Other things like magic items tailored to wizards can be an issue for the same reason.
I'd just stick to the normal rules and put you 2nd stat into Charisma and make sure you take the "Friend" cantrip.
As others have said this does mean you can dump an extra stat. It's not so much that it breaks the game more that you now increase to chance step on the toes of other party members by having stats elsewhere.
Plus it depending on how you do stats Just 1 ASI brings you back to a 16 Intelligence which you can ride with through to level 12 at least.
Your typical Outlander background Barbarian also wants DEX and WIS (for animal handing, perception, and survival). He also might want CHA because that is the attribute he will need to rally his tribe around him to face the onslaught of the orc horde.
The only classes I have encountered that have the ability to deprioritize more than one stat is the Hexblade Warlock. The Hexblade can drop STR and DEX and still be an effective melee combatant. If they don't like INT or WIS that is another two dumps. They only need CON and CHA to be not only functional but viable.
You’re right, I think I’ll just stick to the rules on this one haha, thanks for the advice.
I carry two swords. One of silver for creatures that roam the wild. One of steel for humans in their cities of stone. Both are for monsters.
You can go with a half elf instead of Tiefling so you can get the Charisma bonus as well as put a point in INT. I wouldn't mess with the primary stats of a class, nor would I want a caster with a low INT anyway. Just dump another stat for flavor, have a low wisdom and be cocky with your high charisma and run in guns blazing or be the prototypical weak wizard.
As opposed to Tiefling that gets a +2 Charisma bonus as well as +1 point in INT?
Hm. So I'm of two minds on this.
On one hand, I don't think switching the spellcasting stat to CHA will necessarily break anything. I can't think of anything that will be horribly unbalanced. So if I were a DM and you really really wanted to do it, I'd probably allow it.
But... I'm a little skeptical that it's a good idea, and I'd try to talk you out of it.
First, there's ALREADY three CHA-focused casters - Bard, Sorcerer, Warlock - and a CHA half-caster (Paladin). Wizard is LITERALLY the only class in the PHB that's INT-focused. And you're proposing picking that class... and then changing one of its most unique features. If you really want a CHA caster, why not pick one of those three?
Second, it's a little weird thematically, to me. Wizards are supposed to get their power by detailed and careful study - textbook example of a character getting their power from their INT. It goes with the ability to be good at Arcana and makes them pretty knowledgeable with History, Nature, Investigation, Religion. It would be a bit weird to have a Wizard that's bad at those things.
Interestingly, I think INT-focused wizards ARE actually really good all-rounders, because of the huge spell selection wizards can get, and because they can cast rituals from their spellbook. I played a wizard and I found that one way to be all-around effective was to have the right spell for the right time. A Familiar or Unseen Servant can solve lots of situations. You want to be stealthy? Invisibility, or illusions, or Disguise Self. Strong? Enlarge/Reduce, cast on self. Bam you're big. Or just levitate stuff. Persuasive? Charm person, Friends. Though those have drawbacks, so maybe you do want just a good CHA for that instead, if you play a high INT high CHA wizard you're gonna be able to cover basically anything you need to do.
That said, if you're looking for a true all-arounder, that's probably Bard. Caster AND an excellent skill-monkey AND has jack of all trades AND can be a melee or ranged combatant AND has more health than a wizard. Literally anything you want with Bard, you can build them to be great at it, or you can build them to be good at everything.
And another stat increase on top of 2 more skills. Not a huge difference but stat and skill wise a little better especially if you are going to be a face and still have Arcana and Investigation as an INT based class.
Rather than a Charisma based Wizard, you probably have a stronger argument to make Persuasion/Intimidation/Deception Intelligence based, if that's what you're after