Public Mod Note(MellieDM): Moved to new thread. Please do not revive resolved support threads from 2018, as per our Thread Necromancy rules. Thank you! :)
Really wish the source books came with a single use code for the site so I could tell the character tool what I already bought. That seems like such a simple option. That’s how most movies, games and music work these days. I’d be inclined to buy more books, in that case.
In fact, I have bought more gaming books for different systems from other, smaller publishers who included an electronic copy at no additional cost. Compared to that, WotC is hardly going to lose money by letting me create a nature cleric on their own site. I’d even pay a few bucks to add all the already-purchased book content to the creator, but I’m not going to buy the same book twice.
As is, even a huge chunk of the PHB content isn’t included - cleric domains being limited to life and the weird restrictions on premade backgrounds are some pretty basic examples.
Public Mod Note
(MellieDM):
Moved to new thread. Please do not revive resolved support threads from 2018, as per our Thread Necromancy rules. Thank you! :)
Compared to that, WotC is hardly going to lose money by letting me create a nature cleric on their own site.
Here's the thing, this isn't WotC's site. DDB is owned and run by Curse, a different company from WotC. It'd be Curse losing money from WotC offering the codes. Curse has paid WotC for the rights to license content for their site, and they have to recoup that cost, plus the cost of running the site, paying their developers to enter new content, and developing new tools.
As is, even a huge chunk of the PHB content isn’t included - cleric domains being limited to life and the weird restrictions on premade backgrounds are some pretty basic examples.
These are not weird, arbitrary restrictions. This is content that is either provided in the free Basic Rules/SRD, or free through other sources. DDB offers all content for free that WotC offers for free, and charges for content that WotC charges for.
It's like we *really* need a sticky thread titled "No, You Don't Get Free Services From This Site Just Because You Already Bought The Books From WOTC. Plz Stop Asking KTHXBAI."
It's like we *really* need a sticky thread titled "No, You Don't Get Free Services From This Site Just Because You Already Bought The Books From WOTC. Plz Stop Asking KTHXBAI."
You mean like a "purchases FAQ"? Granted, it takes like 4 clicks to finally get the answer, but I don't think being more direct about it will stop people from asking questions that have been answered dozens of times.
As many people have pointed out before, video games give a prime example. If my wife and I both want to play ONE game, we BOTH have to have our own TV, console and version of the game. Buying physical or digital, either way, must be purchased twice. Local co-op is going extinct, so modern solutions are expensive. Then, if your friend who owns a different console wants to play, you're out the purchase of another console and a third copy of the same game.
If the masses of society can readily accept that as normal, I find great difficulty understanding why people throw a fit over paying $30 to access content online from a separate reseller from where a physical book was initially purchased. I mean, yes, we are all seeking deals and savings, but there comes a time when people have to realize that there are worse things in the world than having to buy two copies of a book if you want it in digital and physical. At least these aren't video games.
With Beyond, you pay for more than just content. You pay for an experience, convenience and a powerful tool at your ready. Not to mention that Beyond actually does allow you to share content that you have purchased. In the end, that $30 is a HUGE bargain. I can't blame the uninitiated for second-guessing the cost. Particularly when they've already invested in physical books. It is wise; however, to educate and show WHY Beyond is the value and better option. Don't view it as a waste of funds, rather, an investment to improve your overall D&D experience. My game sessions, for instance, have only improved and become more streamlined since switching over. Beyond is now an invaluable tool at my disposal. I value it enough that I will share this with people, particularly those who aren't familiar.
It's like we *really* need a sticky thread titled "No, You Don't Get Free Services From This Site Just Because You Already Bought The Books From WOTC. Plz Stop Asking KTHXBAI."
You mean like a "purchases FAQ"? Granted, it takes like 4 clicks to finally get the answer, but I don't think being more direct about it will stop people from asking questions that have been answered dozens of times.
... we could write it in fire, in letters thirty feet high on the far side of the Quentulus Quazgar Mountains...
Sorry Davedamon, I don't agree. Curse could easily claim cost back from WotC for purchases where a code was provided. They could then either provide the material free, heavily discounted or only charge a smaller service fee for those with codes.
Of course the issue would be I could provide the code to a friend instead and we both would have the book for the price of one. However, with the risk of that happening combined with the benefit of possible more sales as potentially more people might buy both versions may not be a loss overall. It would certainly come off as less lazy customer service.
After all, anyone could just scan the books for the cost of sweat and time before sending that out to all their friends. Both would be a breach of contract with the latter potentially more damaging and already possible.
Bicycle locks prevent normal people from becoming thieves, they don't prevent thieves from stealing your bicycle.
As I have said before, the problem here is that to the novel end-user, this site appears to be an official WOTC site. It is not called Roll 20, or Fantasy Grounds, or World Anvil, and then offers D&D stuff along with stuff from other games. It is called D&D BEYOND. It has the D&D logo. And it has all the source book material fully present including all artwork and laid out just like the books (compare with, say Fantasy Ground, which has a much more stripped-down look to it, with text files and then you have to "click here" to see the image in a separate window). There is literally nothing, at all, on the main web page that would make a new end user believe that this is not the official WOTC site. Even the copyright notice at the bottom says "(c) D&D Beyond" - and then it says "powered by Fandom" -- powered by, not owned by. Following this it says that D&D, the logo, and all stuff is owned by Wizards.
So again, part of the problem is how they are presenting themselves. They have deliberately named the site, laid it out, and organized it, to look (to anyone but someone giving very close and minute attention to typically-ignored details) as if this is the one, true, official place for online D&D. Given that, it is not at all shocking that new users keep coming here, drawing the conclusion that this website is begging them to draw, and becoming confused when this conclusion is incorrect. Not only that, but I'd be highly surprised if Fandom didn't want you to misconstrue this, because they know that people are probably not going to buy the online versions of the books multiple times, and among the choices of Roll 20, DriveThru, Fantasy Grounds, etc., and here, they want to get you to pick here. So they make it look like this site is "more official" than the others when it absolutely is not to help seal the deal.
It would be a zebra of a different stripe if this site were called "Fandom Games, featuring D&D" rather than "D&D Beyond." But it's not.
In short, my sympathies are with the new users here, not with Fandom, who, in my opinion, is flat-out asking for this confusion.
BioWizard, I see your point, but you also ignore the obvious in order to cater to the ignorance. As with the example I provided above, and is tossed around as endlessly as this discussion goes on for, video games make a fair comparison. I cannot buy a physical copy of Evil Within 2 and expect a digital copy as well. For that, I'd have to buy the game AGAIN, at usually the same price, no less. If I want to play Gran Turismo or Forza and get the most out of the system, I not only have to buy the game in both physical and digital if I want it in both versions, but I also have to buy twice AGAIN....with yet ANOTHER console if I don't have another already, just so two members in my home can enjoy a single game. There are no ifs, ands, ors, buts or loopholes in the video game industry. Nobody expects a digital copy with a physical disc or vice versa.
And, trust me, I tried to side with the ignorant before trying to compare to DVDs and Blu-Ray offering digital copies with their movies...but, every week roughly 10 movies come out at the local movie store and of those ten, maybe two come with codes. Of those that come with codes, it's usually going to be the Blu-Ray. So, people generally know in advance if a digital is coming with it or not before purchase. It's not a given. I can think of no other medium where people would think a digital copy would come with a physical purchase. All you can do is call it as it is and say it's simply ignorance. That isn't to belittle those who seek the freebies. Rather, to say they are in need of education, understanding and the tools needed to know how the system works in order to better choose what is best for them and their own needs. For a lot of people, digital is cool and a novel idea, but their own style just doesn't cater to it. They still want the digital if they can get it for free. But, they need to understand how the system works and they need us that are in the know and having familiarity with it to show understanding and provide that education without bickering or taking sides. Or showing pity.
Ah, my mistake, I had not realized the site and tools are owned and operated by a different company. That’s really, really unclear as a user of the site, to the point of trademark confusion since the D&D logo is right there at the top of this very screen
When one types “d&d beyond missing character info” or similar into a search engine, the top results are this and related threads, rather than the FAQ mentioned above. For those of us who have been using the physical books for 20 years or so and onkynuse the site for digital character sheets the distinction is pretty hard to locate.
Ah, my mistake, I had not realized the site and tools are owned and operated by a different company. That’s really, really unclear as a user of the site, to the point of trademark confusion since the D&D logo is right there at the top of this very screen
And this is my exact point. This site presents itself in a way clearly intended to make the end user believe exactly this, that DDB is "the" official site for D&D. It is not. But they want you to think it. And no, don't anyone tell me that it is not on purpose. It is clearly intentional.
Given that the clear intent of this website is to deceive the end user into thinking that it is an official WOTC site, I don't see how the end user can be faulted for being so deceived.
And as for the argument that, even if it were official, you wouldn't expect to have digital content and paper content for a single purchase... well, as I have said elsewhere, some entities do that. Marvel Comics, for instance... buy a paper comic and you get a code to get it on ComiXology (or at least you did for several years -- no clue if they are still doing that now). And as for video games... consoles may be different but on the PC, during the years when both boxes and digital copies were sold, I often bought a physical copy at the store and then just registered the license code for it and got the digital version. Heck, TurboTax does that to this day. They give you a CD but you end up usually just DLing the electronic copy of it since a lot of people no longer have CD drives. And the biggest price gougers in the world -- textbook companies -- actually do often let you have access to the online version if you bought the paper version. Students in my classes frequently (depending on publisher) have the option of digital only, or paper + digital. I don't think I've ever seen a textbook publisher NOT allow electronic book access if you buy the physical copy. So there is tons of variability in how this is handled -- enough that someone thinking that DDB = WOTC is not completely beyond the pale to think that they might be entitled to a digital copy of the book they bought on paper.
Hey, I'm always open to changing my perceived outlook. I'm mainly a DC fan. But, I do read a few Marvel titles and only one comic has given me any code for Comixology as a promotional deal. So, unless I've been reading the wrong titles, I don't think they do that anymore. And, admittedly, I graduated college almost nine years ago and I do recall some texts coming with both, but you are also paying outrageous amounts of money for books that will just be outdated and replaced next semester. And, yes, my gaming experience is strictly on console. I am not a gamer. My wife is the main gamer in our house but we still have two consoles for the rare time she convinces me to play a game with her. I mean, she plays D&D with me so it's the least I could do. lol
I just think there are bigger things to complain about than a max $30 per book repurchase in the grand scheme of things.
With all that said and out of the way, you have opened my eyes to the fact that the site is indeed made to look and feel like an exact extension of WotC. Maybe because I researched it a LOT before even getting a membership here, and perused other sites, etc. I debated a long time whether I really wanted digital or physical...or to even have to make a dreaded gmail account (I vomit every time I have to log in, but I suffer because it's worth it). In the end, I finally made an account here with full knowledge of what this site was about and had to offer with full intent to spend money here. I already had a collection of physical, but the repurchase on this site has not been wasted at all. But, having come in with that knowledge, I didn't really pay too much attention to the details that would make other people draw that conclusion. I just always understood it from the point of ignorance or lack of association with the genre like how people think Captain Kirk is the captain of the Millennium Falcon kind of thing. They've got the spirit, but are also very wrong and need to be guided to the proper path. But, I never thought of Star Wars as a doppelgänger of sorts of Star Trek as I was raised with familiarity between the two. Those of us in the know and familiar with why this site is the way it is may easily take certain aspects of this site for granted not even taking into account how others may just make a random perception check with a low modifier and not see what we all do from our experience here.
In short, while I still feel the complaints are minor things to be concerned over by experience with other things and business models in the world, even if this were a direct extension of WotC, I do get where you are coming from more clearly in how the site was and is designed from a marketing standpoint.
There is literally nothing, at all, on the main web page that would make a new end user believe that this is not the official WOTC site. Even the copyright notice at the bottom says "(c) D&D Beyond" - and then it says "powered by Fandom" -- powered by, not owned by. Following this it says that D&D, the logo, and all stuff is owned by Wizards.
It should probably be mentioned that first party websites that actually own the content they are hosting don't have a "everything you see here are property of their respective owners" type disclaimer at the bottom of the page. https://dnd.wizards.com/ sure doesn't.
ManOfValor, that is not entirely correct. It all depends on the business model.
Xbox play anywhere allows games to be bought on Xbox or PC and you can download them on both platforms for no additional cost. Allowing you to own two copies of the game.
Likewise, adding other people to your Xbox family, will let you share your game library with them as well, even on different Xboxes.
I understand these are two different companies, but as my previous post explains, there are easy ways to provide better customer service if WotC desires.
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Really wish the source books came with a single use code for the site so I could tell the character tool what I already bought. That seems like such a simple option. That’s how most movies, games and music work these days. I’d be inclined to buy more books, in that case.
In fact, I have bought more gaming books for different systems from other, smaller publishers who included an electronic copy at no additional cost. Compared to that, WotC is hardly going to lose money by letting me create a nature cleric on their own site. I’d even pay a few bucks to add all the already-purchased book content to the creator, but I’m not going to buy the same book twice.
As is, even a huge chunk of the PHB content isn’t included - cleric domains being limited to life and the weird restrictions on premade backgrounds are some pretty basic examples.
Here's the thing, this isn't WotC's site. DDB is owned and run by Curse, a different company from WotC. It'd be Curse losing money from WotC offering the codes. Curse has paid WotC for the rights to license content for their site, and they have to recoup that cost, plus the cost of running the site, paying their developers to enter new content, and developing new tools.
These are not weird, arbitrary restrictions. This is content that is either provided in the free Basic Rules/SRD, or free through other sources. DDB offers all content for free that WotC offers for free, and charges for content that WotC charges for.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
It's like we *really* need a sticky thread titled "No, You Don't Get Free Services From This Site Just Because You Already Bought The Books From WOTC. Plz Stop Asking KTHXBAI."
The precedent has been set for this with the Essentials Kit. Don't count out special sets in the future coming with a code but I doubt many will.
The Essentials Kit has been stated to be an experiment, not a precedent. It was viable because it was a sealed, boxed product and not a loose book.
Find my D&D Beyond articles here
You mean like a "purchases FAQ"? Granted, it takes like 4 clicks to finally get the answer, but I don't think being more direct about it will stop people from asking questions that have been answered dozens of times.
As many people have pointed out before, video games give a prime example. If my wife and I both want to play ONE game, we BOTH have to have our own TV, console and version of the game. Buying physical or digital, either way, must be purchased twice. Local co-op is going extinct, so modern solutions are expensive. Then, if your friend who owns a different console wants to play, you're out the purchase of another console and a third copy of the same game.
If the masses of society can readily accept that as normal, I find great difficulty understanding why people throw a fit over paying $30 to access content online from a separate reseller from where a physical book was initially purchased. I mean, yes, we are all seeking deals and savings, but there comes a time when people have to realize that there are worse things in the world than having to buy two copies of a book if you want it in digital and physical. At least these aren't video games.
With Beyond, you pay for more than just content. You pay for an experience, convenience and a powerful tool at your ready. Not to mention that Beyond actually does allow you to share content that you have purchased. In the end, that $30 is a HUGE bargain. I can't blame the uninitiated for second-guessing the cost. Particularly when they've already invested in physical books. It is wise; however, to educate and show WHY Beyond is the value and better option. Don't view it as a waste of funds, rather, an investment to improve your overall D&D experience. My game sessions, for instance, have only improved and become more streamlined since switching over. Beyond is now an invaluable tool at my disposal. I value it enough that I will share this with people, particularly those who aren't familiar.
... we could write it in fire, in letters thirty feet high on the far side of the Quentulus Quazgar Mountains...
Sorry Davedamon, I don't agree. Curse could easily claim cost back from WotC for purchases where a code was provided. They could then either provide the material free, heavily discounted or only charge a smaller service fee for those with codes.
Of course the issue would be I could provide the code to a friend instead and we both would have the book for the price of one. However, with the risk of that happening combined with the benefit of possible more sales as potentially more people might buy both versions may not be a loss overall. It would certainly come off as less lazy customer service.
After all, anyone could just scan the books for the cost of sweat and time before sending that out to all their friends. Both would be a breach of contract with the latter potentially more damaging and already possible.
Bicycle locks prevent normal people from becoming thieves, they don't prevent thieves from stealing your bicycle.
As I have said before, the problem here is that to the novel end-user, this site appears to be an official WOTC site. It is not called Roll 20, or Fantasy Grounds, or World Anvil, and then offers D&D stuff along with stuff from other games. It is called D&D BEYOND. It has the D&D logo. And it has all the source book material fully present including all artwork and laid out just like the books (compare with, say Fantasy Ground, which has a much more stripped-down look to it, with text files and then you have to "click here" to see the image in a separate window). There is literally nothing, at all, on the main web page that would make a new end user believe that this is not the official WOTC site. Even the copyright notice at the bottom says "(c) D&D Beyond" - and then it says "powered by Fandom" -- powered by, not owned by. Following this it says that D&D, the logo, and all stuff is owned by Wizards.
So again, part of the problem is how they are presenting themselves. They have deliberately named the site, laid it out, and organized it, to look (to anyone but someone giving very close and minute attention to typically-ignored details) as if this is the one, true, official place for online D&D. Given that, it is not at all shocking that new users keep coming here, drawing the conclusion that this website is begging them to draw, and becoming confused when this conclusion is incorrect. Not only that, but I'd be highly surprised if Fandom didn't want you to misconstrue this, because they know that people are probably not going to buy the online versions of the books multiple times, and among the choices of Roll 20, DriveThru, Fantasy Grounds, etc., and here, they want to get you to pick here. So they make it look like this site is "more official" than the others when it absolutely is not to help seal the deal.
It would be a zebra of a different stripe if this site were called "Fandom Games, featuring D&D" rather than "D&D Beyond." But it's not.
In short, my sympathies are with the new users here, not with Fandom, who, in my opinion, is flat-out asking for this confusion.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
BioWizard, I see your point, but you also ignore the obvious in order to cater to the ignorance. As with the example I provided above, and is tossed around as endlessly as this discussion goes on for, video games make a fair comparison. I cannot buy a physical copy of Evil Within 2 and expect a digital copy as well. For that, I'd have to buy the game AGAIN, at usually the same price, no less. If I want to play Gran Turismo or Forza and get the most out of the system, I not only have to buy the game in both physical and digital if I want it in both versions, but I also have to buy twice AGAIN....with yet ANOTHER console if I don't have another already, just so two members in my home can enjoy a single game. There are no ifs, ands, ors, buts or loopholes in the video game industry. Nobody expects a digital copy with a physical disc or vice versa.
And, trust me, I tried to side with the ignorant before trying to compare to DVDs and Blu-Ray offering digital copies with their movies...but, every week roughly 10 movies come out at the local movie store and of those ten, maybe two come with codes. Of those that come with codes, it's usually going to be the Blu-Ray. So, people generally know in advance if a digital is coming with it or not before purchase. It's not a given. I can think of no other medium where people would think a digital copy would come with a physical purchase. All you can do is call it as it is and say it's simply ignorance. That isn't to belittle those who seek the freebies. Rather, to say they are in need of education, understanding and the tools needed to know how the system works in order to better choose what is best for them and their own needs. For a lot of people, digital is cool and a novel idea, but their own style just doesn't cater to it. They still want the digital if they can get it for free. But, they need to understand how the system works and they need us that are in the know and having familiarity with it to show understanding and provide that education without bickering or taking sides. Or showing pity.
Ah, my mistake, I had not realized the site and tools are owned and operated by a different company. That’s really, really unclear as a user of the site, to the point of trademark confusion since the D&D logo is right there at the top of this very screen
When one types “d&d beyond missing character info” or similar into a search engine, the top results are this and related threads, rather than the FAQ mentioned above. For those of us who have been using the physical books for 20 years or so and onkynuse the site for digital character sheets the distinction is pretty hard to locate.
And this is my exact point. This site presents itself in a way clearly intended to make the end user believe exactly this, that DDB is "the" official site for D&D. It is not. But they want you to think it. And no, don't anyone tell me that it is not on purpose. It is clearly intentional.
Given that the clear intent of this website is to deceive the end user into thinking that it is an official WOTC site, I don't see how the end user can be faulted for being so deceived.
And as for the argument that, even if it were official, you wouldn't expect to have digital content and paper content for a single purchase... well, as I have said elsewhere, some entities do that. Marvel Comics, for instance... buy a paper comic and you get a code to get it on ComiXology (or at least you did for several years -- no clue if they are still doing that now). And as for video games... consoles may be different but on the PC, during the years when both boxes and digital copies were sold, I often bought a physical copy at the store and then just registered the license code for it and got the digital version. Heck, TurboTax does that to this day. They give you a CD but you end up usually just DLing the electronic copy of it since a lot of people no longer have CD drives. And the biggest price gougers in the world -- textbook companies -- actually do often let you have access to the online version if you bought the paper version. Students in my classes frequently (depending on publisher) have the option of digital only, or paper + digital. I don't think I've ever seen a textbook publisher NOT allow electronic book access if you buy the physical copy. So there is tons of variability in how this is handled -- enough that someone thinking that DDB = WOTC is not completely beyond the pale to think that they might be entitled to a digital copy of the book they bought on paper.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
Hey, I'm always open to changing my perceived outlook. I'm mainly a DC fan. But, I do read a few Marvel titles and only one comic has given me any code for Comixology as a promotional deal. So, unless I've been reading the wrong titles, I don't think they do that anymore. And, admittedly, I graduated college almost nine years ago and I do recall some texts coming with both, but you are also paying outrageous amounts of money for books that will just be outdated and replaced next semester. And, yes, my gaming experience is strictly on console. I am not a gamer. My wife is the main gamer in our house but we still have two consoles for the rare time she convinces me to play a game with her. I mean, she plays D&D with me so it's the least I could do. lol
I just think there are bigger things to complain about than a max $30 per book repurchase in the grand scheme of things.
With all that said and out of the way, you have opened my eyes to the fact that the site is indeed made to look and feel like an exact extension of WotC. Maybe because I researched it a LOT before even getting a membership here, and perused other sites, etc. I debated a long time whether I really wanted digital or physical...or to even have to make a dreaded gmail account (I vomit every time I have to log in, but I suffer because it's worth it). In the end, I finally made an account here with full knowledge of what this site was about and had to offer with full intent to spend money here. I already had a collection of physical, but the repurchase on this site has not been wasted at all. But, having come in with that knowledge, I didn't really pay too much attention to the details that would make other people draw that conclusion. I just always understood it from the point of ignorance or lack of association with the genre like how people think Captain Kirk is the captain of the Millennium Falcon kind of thing. They've got the spirit, but are also very wrong and need to be guided to the proper path. But, I never thought of Star Wars as a doppelgänger of sorts of Star Trek as I was raised with familiarity between the two. Those of us in the know and familiar with why this site is the way it is may easily take certain aspects of this site for granted not even taking into account how others may just make a random perception check with a low modifier and not see what we all do from our experience here.
In short, while I still feel the complaints are minor things to be concerned over by experience with other things and business models in the world, even if this were a direct extension of WotC, I do get where you are coming from more clearly in how the site was and is designed from a marketing standpoint.
It should probably be mentioned that first party websites that actually own the content they are hosting don't have a "everything you see here are property of their respective owners" type disclaimer at the bottom of the page. https://dnd.wizards.com/ sure doesn't.
ManOfValor, that is not entirely correct. It all depends on the business model.
Xbox play anywhere allows games to be bought on Xbox or PC and you can download them on both platforms for no additional cost. Allowing you to own two copies of the game.
Likewise, adding other people to your Xbox family, will let you share your game library with them as well, even on different Xboxes.
I understand these are two different companies, but as my previous post explains, there are easy ways to provide better customer service if WotC desires.