Let me start by saying I think I'm right but I can't seem to convince certain person(s.)
This dispute arose when a grave cleric used a clerical focus to cast Gentle Repose to prevent the necromancer from zombifying a corpse.
PH p.203 Components, Material(M) "A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus ...in place of the components specified by the spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell."
PH p.245 Gentle Repose M components, "a pinch of salt and one copper piece placed on each of the corpse's eyes, which must remain there for the duration." Duration: 10 days.
Now as i read this, my understanding is that since the word worth isn't specified under materials as it is with all other spells with a monetary cost, a focus replaces the material requirement for the full duration of the spell. The listed component requirement does not even specify that the pieces of copper need to be coins-if the RAI had been a monetary cost, the text for the components would have included the word Worth" as it does with all other spells with a cost. If intended as a cost, the component text would be, "two pieces of copper worth 2cp."
My understanding of the RAI for a focus is that it replaces common components, and copper pieces are pretty common. The intention is to free a caster from having to list every tiny little item on their character sheet. The cost caveat is simply to prevent casters from unbalancing the game with frequent castings of powerful spells. 25 sp to cast ceremony prevents clerics from creating vats of holy water in which to immerse the undead. I do not think Gentle Repose falls into the category of an abusable spell.
The Necromancer's argument is that the copper pieces listed constitutes a cost, therefore a focus can't be used, and if the cleric wants to put a couple CP on the eyes, I'll just put them in my pocket & cast the spell Gentle Repose is designed to prevent anyway.
I'd have to side with the necromancer here and say that the copper pieces by definition confirm their material cost (1 cp each).
Plus, as they have to remain on the eyes, unless the grave cleric left two Clerical spell focii on the face of the decedent, the spell would just immediately end as the pieces must remain there for the duration - no copper pieces on the face, no duration.
Are we talking about the brokest cleric in the world? No, just had to say it :-)
If he's using a spell poach, I would probably have said that it includes the two pieces of copper. If he's using a focus, he might have to find at least something else to cover the eyes. I do agree that the rules as written, might lean towards that this can be read as a material cost, but it is so small that it seems completely unnecessary to pay it any attention. Material costs are there to prevent overuse of the spell, 2cp seems like just the mikro management the spell poach/focus is meant to substitute for to me.
The copper coin specified in the components is not a costed component, otherwise it'd be worded the same as other costed components, ie "A copper coin worth 1 cp" As such it's not consumed.
When a spell lists a component with a cost that's used up during the casting, like a Diamond for Revify, that's when an arcane focus or spell component pouch doesn't cover it. Gentle Repose doesn't say the component is used up, only that it has to remain on the corpse for 10 days (which implies the copper remains).
This is definitely a fringe case of the focus rules that could have used more clarification. Ultimately, you should go with what the DM says.
I would go with the stricter reading that since it does not get consumed or specify the cost, a focus could substitute. But I can understand and respect the argument that the CP is required.
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Let me start by saying I think I'm right but I can't seem to convince certain person(s.)
This dispute arose when a grave cleric used a clerical focus to cast Gentle Repose to prevent the necromancer from zombifying a corpse.
PH p.203 Components, Material(M) "A character can use a component pouch or a spellcasting focus ...in place of the components specified by the spell. But if a cost is indicated for a component, a character must have that specific component before he or she can cast the spell."
PH p.245 Gentle Repose M components, "a pinch of salt and one copper piece placed on each of the corpse's eyes, which must remain there for the duration." Duration: 10 days.
Now as i read this, my understanding is that since the word worth isn't specified under materials as it is with all other spells with a monetary cost, a focus replaces the material requirement for the full duration of the spell. The listed component requirement does not even specify that the pieces of copper need to be coins-if the RAI had been a monetary cost, the text for the components would have included the word Worth" as it does with all other spells with a cost. If intended as a cost, the component text would be, "two pieces of copper worth 2cp."
My understanding of the RAI for a focus is that it replaces common components, and copper pieces are pretty common. The intention is to free a caster from having to list every tiny little item on their character sheet. The cost caveat is simply to prevent casters from unbalancing the game with frequent castings of powerful spells. 25 sp to cast ceremony prevents clerics from creating vats of holy water in which to immerse the undead. I do not think Gentle Repose falls into the category of an abusable spell.
The Necromancer's argument is that the copper pieces listed constitutes a cost, therefore a focus can't be used, and if the cleric wants to put a couple CP on the eyes, I'll just put them in my pocket & cast the spell Gentle Repose is designed to prevent anyway.
Any input?
I'd have to side with the necromancer here and say that the copper pieces by definition confirm their material cost (1 cp each).
Plus, as they have to remain on the eyes, unless the grave cleric left two Clerical spell focii on the face of the decedent, the spell would just immediately end as the pieces must remain there for the duration - no copper pieces on the face, no duration.
Please take a look at my homebrewed Spells, Magic Items, and Subclasses. Any feedback appreciated.
Are we talking about the brokest cleric in the world? No, just had to say it :-)
If he's using a spell poach, I would probably have said that it includes the two pieces of copper. If he's using a focus, he might have to find at least something else to cover the eyes. I do agree that the rules as written, might lean towards that this can be read as a material cost, but it is so small that it seems completely unnecessary to pay it any attention. Material costs are there to prevent overuse of the spell, 2cp seems like just the mikro management the spell poach/focus is meant to substitute for to me.
Ludo ergo sum!
The copper coin specified in the components is not a costed component, otherwise it'd be worded the same as other costed components, ie "A copper coin worth 1 cp" As such it's not consumed.
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It seems to me that a spell designed to thwart another spell shouldn't be so easy to circumvent. It's like
Character A: I hit him with magic missile.
Character B: I cast shield.
Character A: my magic missile hits him from the other side.
When a spell lists a component with a cost that's used up during the casting, like a Diamond for Revify, that's when an arcane focus or spell component pouch doesn't cover it. Gentle Repose doesn't say the component is used up, only that it has to remain on the corpse for 10 days (which implies the copper remains).
The cleric is right in this case.
This is definitely a fringe case of the focus rules that could have used more clarification. Ultimately, you should go with what the DM says.
I would go with the stricter reading that since it does not get consumed or specify the cost, a focus could substitute. But I can understand and respect the argument that the CP is required.