Hello, in a recent session of DND 5e, where I am playing as a 9th level Battle master Fighter(Optimized to hand crossbows) and on my first attack I sharpshooter(declared) and moved onto my second attack. Rolling I rolled a 8 and have a +13 to hit(+2 crossbow and optimized build) but in my mind thought I had declared a sharp shoot(I did not) so I only gave a +8 to my initial roll of 8. Saying I had a total roll of 16, my DM said I missed. Taking a moment to think about my next action, I realized I did not declare a sharp shoot and told my DM that I actually rolled a 21 to hit but my DM said that I was too late and that the first 16 was what I had now rolled. This ended up with me taking a huge amount of damage next round that ended up with my part being beat. I don't know how to feel about this and my DM does give leniency to the other members but reasons that because I am playing a optimized build I don't deserve to have the leniency when I play this character. It feels really unfair and just want to know other peoples reactions to what I should do. Thanks for any responses given and have a great day.
Ask the DM if they will be consistent about accepting the first sum vs accepting the correct sum. If they say they'll be consistent about accepting the first sum, make a mistake in addition every time it benefits you, then correct yourself. If they say they'll take the correct sum, there's no problem. If they choose neither, let them know you don't want to play in a game where the rules are biased against you specifically.
I'll admit to generally being more strict with this type of thing for my players that choose sharpshooter or great weapon master. I realize it's not the most fair thing in the world, but it probably has to do with them voluntarily choosing to add a layer of complexity to the process, which is on them to keep track of. But with that said, I am aware that I'm doing it, and wouldn't be as strict as in your example the first time it happened. That leads to way more questions. The first two are: "Is this the first time this has happened?" Followed by "Is this REALLY the first time this happened?" I have a sharpshooter player that caused me to institute a timer for each round because of the constant "Do I, or don't I" when it comes to applying sharpshooter. This, in turn, leads to him regularly getting confused on which one he actually stated he was doing. I usually just go with whatever comes out of his mouth first just to keep the game rolling and not get bogged down with the decision making process on every shot he takes.
Long story short, sounds a tad strict the way you're presenting it but would love to hear the DM's side.
It feels really unfair and just want to know other peoples reactions to what I should do.
What you should do is accept the rulings of your DM. And maybe next time be more clear about what your character is doing when you take your action round.
What you should not do is come here onto this forum and try to get the rest of us to second-guess your DM. It's his game, not ours. He can run it how he wants, and he can refuse to allow you to retcon mistaken roll calculations if he wants.
I mean what happened here? You "thought" you had declared sharpshooter. Then you realized you hadn't said it out loud... but you had intended to. If the roll had hit, would you have demanded to do the extra damage, even though you had not declared?
Ultimately I have issues with the motivations behind posts like this. You should not, as a player, be coming on here to try and get the "DMs of the world" to overrule your DM or give him wrong. We can't overrule him. No one can -- not even the writers at WOTC. There is no rule he is violating (and even if there were, he's allowed to alter the rules as he sees fit, although a good DM won't do this arbitrarily).
We also have no context here. How often do you pull stuff like this, where you do one calculation, and then when you find out it misses, you try to retcon it to another value? If this is a regular occurrence from you, I can see a DM losing patience and just invoking the rule that whatever your first calculation is sticks, because he's tired of having to re-run rounds of combat because you "forgot" to add in a bonus or apply a penalty. Also, how often do you make corrections to your character's detriment? Or do you only try to "fix" things when doing so would benefit your character?
In a game session, the DM rules how the DM rules. If you think the DM is being actively unfair to you, then you should speak to the DM about it. If the problem persists, leave the game.
But what players should not do is come onto this forum and try to get the collective DMs here to tell them their DM is wrong. We can't declare that, because we are not at the table and don't have the full story. And even if we did, your DM rules how your DM rules. Don't ask us to overrule your DM. We can't.
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WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I find it hard to believe that because you missed one attack, your whole party was defeated. In any case, the moral of the story is be clear and correct in your declarations. This is your responsibility, if you fail to do so, you shouldn't blame anyone else for the consequences.
Have you considered flipping the table over, flopping onto your stomach, pounding the floor with your hands and feet and screaming “Waaaaaaaaaaah” at the top of your lungs?
1) it’s a game
2) you say you didn’t say it so live with it
3) even if everyone here thought the DM was unfair, then what? Flaunt it in the DMs face so they will be nicer to you in the future? Is that how the world works??
Buck up, little camper. All you need do is put on your big boy pants and have an actual discussion one on one with your DM. State your concerns and see what their response is. If you two cannot work it out like grownups then perhaps you two shouldn’t play together anymore so nobody’s feelings get hurt.
Seriously - talk to the DM, not random internet people. Come to an understanding with them or part ways if you cannot adjust to how they run the game.
[...]on my first attack I sharpshooter(declared) and moved onto my second attack. [...] Saying I had a total roll of 16, my DM said I missed. Taking a moment to think about my next action, [...]
This is what it comes down to me. You declared Sharpshooter for your first attack and resolved it. I'm assuming it hit and you dealt damage.
For the second attack you did not make a declaration. You then gave a result of your roll.
If I imagine myself into the position of the DM here, I would have assumed you to make your second attack in the same way you declared the first one.
Unfortunately for you, you gave your result, the DM resolved the attack as a miss and then you had to think for a bit before you spoke up.
That delay, even if it was only a moment, looks to the outside, as if you reconsidered the conditions of the attack, and wanted to ret-con it.
Even if it was an honest mistake, I would have ruled the same way, as all appearances seem to indicate your first result was the intended one.
I'm in agreement with Wtfdndad, BioWizard and account256 (and partially Kaemgen).
The circumstances you describe seem suspect, if I was the DM your later saying "oh I didn't actually declare sharpshooter but had calculated it" would come across totally as "ooh, I missed, but never actually stated I was using sharpshooter for 'this' attack, maybe I can retcon and add 5?" Especially because you did declare it for the first attack.
Now, personally if it was a one-off and was reported quickly enough, then OK. I'd factor it and let you roll the damage if the +5 would hit. But if it's been more than once or progressed too far into another turn, then it's a no.
I'm not a fan of retcons based on "oh, I forgot this for extra damage" or whatever, especially if we're well underway on other turns. At the end of the day you have your turn to declare what you're doing, it's your responsibility to declare the correct values and you had a whole round before then to think about what you want to do. Retcons can be disruptive, so how lenient I'd be would be based on how much of a disruption this one would be, and how often it's occurring.
You ask for our reactions about you should do. Honestly, mine is: "do nothing, move on." It's a tiny blip. It's miniscule. It's not unfair in the slightest regardless of whether this was first time or not - you made the mistake, not the DM, they're under no obligation to retcon anything. It's a small issue, so - learn from the experience and continue as normal.
I'd also suggest to think about why you're so upset. Based on what you describe here you shouldn't be as upset as you seem. Your reaction of posting on the internet calling them unfair behind their back is a tad extreme considering how tiny of an issue it is. Either there's a lot more you're not telling us (which is suspicious) or you're seriously overreacting and being quite disrespectful.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
Once the DM has made a ruling, move on. If you want to debate or get rules-lawery with them, that's fine, but don't do it during play.
I empathise completely with your loss. I recently had a character I'd been playing for a year die because I forgot to mention he was moving after his attack. He died. Huge amounts of suck, sure, but it happens. If you want your character back, bring in a new character that had your dead character as a bond with a driving goal to resurrect (or reincarnate is always fun) the dead guy. You may not succeed. You may discover you like your new character better.
Between sessions a reasonable dm will listen to reasonably presented reasonable ideas reasonably. This has nothing to do with "leniency."
A coddling or overly lenient dm doesn't help you or your character develop. If there are no consequences, you learn nothing.
As an exception to this I give low level characters of new to roleplay players a little slack, but not a lot, and I won't nerf the damage rolls forever. Eventually though, if a character keeps doing the same stupid thing over and over again, they're gonna die.
I don't know how to feel about this and my DM does give leniency to the other members but reasons that because I am playing a optimized build I don't deserve to have the leniency when I play this character. It feels really unfair and just want to know other peoples reactions to what I should do. Thanks for any responses given and have a great day.
Pizzaeater87, I see this is your first post...welcome to the DnDBeyond forums. I personally don't see anything wrong with trying to ask opinions, get insight, or even voice frustrations to a community of like-minded RPG players and DMs. I also don't see anything inherently "whiney" about your post, or even took this to be that you were disproportionately upset. (Maybe it was the fact that you said "really unfair" instead of just "unfair" that prompted some members to call you a baby, to scold you, and to give detailed reprimands about what is acceptable content to ask in a forum open to everyone.) I'm lucky enough to have a bunch of in-person friends that I've played with and can bounce ideas off them, voice frustrations with a DM or player, etc. But if you don't, and something else pops up in the future that you want to get a second opinion on or just voice your frustration, feel free to just direct message me. Because I can promise you based on history of these forums that any time you have the "audacity" to ask questions about your DMs ruling you'll get at least 6 responses scolding you like a child regardless of the situation and how you word it.
Yeah, I can see you're new here, so don't worry about it. As per your post, there are points in the game where once a course of action has moved on, it's best to just let it go; there are exceptions to this of course, such as when resistances/vulnerabilities aren't factored into damage calculations, or if features such as a spell are egregiously misinterpreted (I have made this mistake as a DM, and my players have had to stop and correct me more than once). In this instance, I'd just use this as an opportunity to be more mindful of declaring my actions in the future, but also ask my DM to be mindful of whether I've declared a particular action or not (of course this also means that if you meant to declare an action with sharpshooting but forgot to do so, then that's on you and not on the DM, so just be extra mindful of what you do and don't declare).
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Hello, in a recent session of DND 5e, where I am playing as a 9th level Battle master Fighter(Optimized to hand crossbows) and on my first attack I sharpshooter(declared) and moved onto my second attack. Rolling I rolled a 8 and have a +13 to hit(+2 crossbow and optimized build) but in my mind thought I had declared a sharp shoot(I did not) so I only gave a +8 to my initial roll of 8. Saying I had a total roll of 16, my DM said I missed. Taking a moment to think about my next action, I realized I did not declare a sharp shoot and told my DM that I actually rolled a 21 to hit but my DM said that I was too late and that the first 16 was what I had now rolled. This ended up with me taking a huge amount of damage next round that ended up with my part being beat. I don't know how to feel about this and my DM does give leniency to the other members but reasons that because I am playing a optimized build I don't deserve to have the leniency when I play this character. It feels really unfair and just want to know other peoples reactions to what I should do. Thanks for any responses given and have a great day.
Ask the DM if they will be consistent about accepting the first sum vs accepting the correct sum. If they say they'll be consistent about accepting the first sum, make a mistake in addition every time it benefits you, then correct yourself. If they say they'll take the correct sum, there's no problem. If they choose neither, let them know you don't want to play in a game where the rules are biased against you specifically.
I'll admit to generally being more strict with this type of thing for my players that choose sharpshooter or great weapon master. I realize it's not the most fair thing in the world, but it probably has to do with them voluntarily choosing to add a layer of complexity to the process, which is on them to keep track of. But with that said, I am aware that I'm doing it, and wouldn't be as strict as in your example the first time it happened. That leads to way more questions. The first two are: "Is this the first time this has happened?" Followed by "Is this REALLY the first time this happened?" I have a sharpshooter player that caused me to institute a timer for each round because of the constant "Do I, or don't I" when it comes to applying sharpshooter. This, in turn, leads to him regularly getting confused on which one he actually stated he was doing. I usually just go with whatever comes out of his mouth first just to keep the game rolling and not get bogged down with the decision making process on every shot he takes.
Long story short, sounds a tad strict the way you're presenting it but would love to hear the DM's side.
What you should do is accept the rulings of your DM. And maybe next time be more clear about what your character is doing when you take your action round.
What you should not do is come here onto this forum and try to get the rest of us to second-guess your DM. It's his game, not ours. He can run it how he wants, and he can refuse to allow you to retcon mistaken roll calculations if he wants.
I mean what happened here? You "thought" you had declared sharpshooter. Then you realized you hadn't said it out loud... but you had intended to. If the roll had hit, would you have demanded to do the extra damage, even though you had not declared?
Ultimately I have issues with the motivations behind posts like this. You should not, as a player, be coming on here to try and get the "DMs of the world" to overrule your DM or give him wrong. We can't overrule him. No one can -- not even the writers at WOTC. There is no rule he is violating (and even if there were, he's allowed to alter the rules as he sees fit, although a good DM won't do this arbitrarily).
We also have no context here. How often do you pull stuff like this, where you do one calculation, and then when you find out it misses, you try to retcon it to another value? If this is a regular occurrence from you, I can see a DM losing patience and just invoking the rule that whatever your first calculation is sticks, because he's tired of having to re-run rounds of combat because you "forgot" to add in a bonus or apply a penalty. Also, how often do you make corrections to your character's detriment? Or do you only try to "fix" things when doing so would benefit your character?
In a game session, the DM rules how the DM rules. If you think the DM is being actively unfair to you, then you should speak to the DM about it. If the problem persists, leave the game.
But what players should not do is come onto this forum and try to get the collective DMs here to tell them their DM is wrong. We can't declare that, because we are not at the table and don't have the full story. And even if we did, your DM rules how your DM rules. Don't ask us to overrule your DM. We can't.
WOTC lies. We know that WOTC lies. WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. We know that WOTC knows that we know that WOTC lies. And still they lie.
Because of the above (a paraphrase from Orwell) I no longer post to the forums -- PM me if you need help or anything.
I find it hard to believe that because you missed one attack, your whole party was defeated. In any case, the moral of the story is be clear and correct in your declarations. This is your responsibility, if you fail to do so, you shouldn't blame anyone else for the consequences.
Have you considered flipping the table over, flopping onto your stomach, pounding the floor with your hands and feet and screaming “Waaaaaaaaaaah” at the top of your lungs?
1) it’s a game
2) you say you didn’t say it so live with it
3) even if everyone here thought the DM was unfair, then what? Flaunt it in the DMs face so they will be nicer to you in the future? Is that how the world works??
Buck up, little camper. All you need do is put on your big boy pants and have an actual discussion one on one with your DM. State your concerns and see what their response is. If you two cannot work it out like grownups then perhaps you two shouldn’t play together anymore so nobody’s feelings get hurt.
Seriously - talk to the DM, not random internet people. Come to an understanding with them or part ways if you cannot adjust to how they run the game.
This is what it comes down to me. You declared Sharpshooter for your first attack and resolved it. I'm assuming it hit and you dealt damage.
For the second attack you did not make a declaration. You then gave a result of your roll.
If I imagine myself into the position of the DM here, I would have assumed you to make your second attack in the same way you declared the first one.
Unfortunately for you, you gave your result, the DM resolved the attack as a miss and then you had to think for a bit before you spoke up.
That delay, even if it was only a moment, looks to the outside, as if you reconsidered the conditions of the attack, and wanted to ret-con it.
Even if it was an honest mistake, I would have ruled the same way, as all appearances seem to indicate your first result was the intended one.
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I'm in agreement with Wtfdndad, BioWizard and account256 (and partially Kaemgen).
The circumstances you describe seem suspect, if I was the DM your later saying "oh I didn't actually declare sharpshooter but had calculated it" would come across totally as "ooh, I missed, but never actually stated I was using sharpshooter for 'this' attack, maybe I can retcon and add 5?" Especially because you did declare it for the first attack.
Now, personally if it was a one-off and was reported quickly enough, then OK. I'd factor it and let you roll the damage if the +5 would hit. But if it's been more than once or progressed too far into another turn, then it's a no.
I'm not a fan of retcons based on "oh, I forgot this for extra damage" or whatever, especially if we're well underway on other turns. At the end of the day you have your turn to declare what you're doing, it's your responsibility to declare the correct values and you had a whole round before then to think about what you want to do. Retcons can be disruptive, so how lenient I'd be would be based on how much of a disruption this one would be, and how often it's occurring.
You ask for our reactions about you should do. Honestly, mine is: "do nothing, move on." It's a tiny blip. It's miniscule. It's not unfair in the slightest regardless of whether this was first time or not - you made the mistake, not the DM, they're under no obligation to retcon anything. It's a small issue, so - learn from the experience and continue as normal.
I'd also suggest to think about why you're so upset. Based on what you describe here you shouldn't be as upset as you seem. Your reaction of posting on the internet calling them unfair behind their back is a tad extreme considering how tiny of an issue it is. Either there's a lot more you're not telling us (which is suspicious) or you're seriously overreacting and being quite disrespectful.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I have to agree with the general trend.
Once the DM has made a ruling, move on. If you want to debate or get rules-lawery with them, that's fine, but don't do it during play.
I empathise completely with your loss. I recently had a character I'd been playing for a year die because I forgot to mention he was moving after his attack. He died. Huge amounts of suck, sure, but it happens. If you want your character back, bring in a new character that had your dead character as a bond with a driving goal to resurrect (or reincarnate is always fun) the dead guy. You may not succeed. You may discover you like your new character better.
Between sessions a reasonable dm will listen to reasonably presented reasonable ideas reasonably. This has nothing to do with "leniency."
A coddling or overly lenient dm doesn't help you or your character develop. If there are no consequences, you learn nothing.
As an exception to this I give low level characters of new to roleplay players a little slack, but not a lot, and I won't nerf the damage rolls forever. Eventually though, if a character keeps doing the same stupid thing over and over again, they're gonna die.
The DM giveth, the DM taketh away.
Pizzaeater87, I see this is your first post...welcome to the DnDBeyond forums. I personally don't see anything wrong with trying to ask opinions, get insight, or even voice frustrations to a community of like-minded RPG players and DMs. I also don't see anything inherently "whiney" about your post, or even took this to be that you were disproportionately upset. (Maybe it was the fact that you said "really unfair" instead of just "unfair" that prompted some members to call you a baby, to scold you, and to give detailed reprimands about what is acceptable content to ask in a forum open to everyone.) I'm lucky enough to have a bunch of in-person friends that I've played with and can bounce ideas off them, voice frustrations with a DM or player, etc. But if you don't, and something else pops up in the future that you want to get a second opinion on or just voice your frustration, feel free to just direct message me. Because I can promise you based on history of these forums that any time you have the "audacity" to ask questions about your DMs ruling you'll get at least 6 responses scolding you like a child regardless of the situation and how you word it.
Yeah, I can see you're new here, so don't worry about it. As per your post, there are points in the game where once a course of action has moved on, it's best to just let it go; there are exceptions to this of course, such as when resistances/vulnerabilities aren't factored into damage calculations, or if features such as a spell are egregiously misinterpreted (I have made this mistake as a DM, and my players have had to stop and correct me more than once). In this instance, I'd just use this as an opportunity to be more mindful of declaring my actions in the future, but also ask my DM to be mindful of whether I've declared a particular action or not (of course this also means that if you meant to declare an action with sharpshooting but forgot to do so, then that's on you and not on the DM, so just be extra mindful of what you do and don't declare).