Hello, I just came here to ask a quick question, I am making a campaign for me and my friends, and one of them wants to play five to ten characters at once. I am a relatively new DM and he is incredibly stubborn about everything. he keeps on saying there is no limit to how many characters he can play as during games, the characters he has made are a bard a lvl 20 warlock fighter, and three fighters. if you have any advice with this I would really appreciate it.
Seriously, it's your game, he doesn't get to dictate how many characters he can play or what their level is. I guarantee that if you let him do this, he's going to try to bull rush you at every opportunity to try and force you to just give him whatever he wants. This will completely wreck the game.
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Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
My advice is to look up what a "session zero" is and have one with your group. During the session, definitely lay down those ground rules about starting character level, characters per player, etc.
As the DM, you are the ultimate arbiter of the rules at your table. While I would hear the players out, players don't tell you what's allowed, you tell players what's allowed.
I agree that you should tell the player no, you should probably also ask why he wants to play multiple characters (with at least one starting at 20th level). Maybe he isn't a good fit for the table and would be happier playing a different game.
Hello, I just came here to ask a quick question, I am making a campaign for me and my friends, and one of them wants to play five to ten characters at once. I am a relatively new DM and he is incredibly stubborn about everything. he keeps on saying there is no limit to how many characters he can play as during games, the characters he has made are a bard a lvl 20 warlock fighter, and three fighters. if you have any advice with this I would really appreciate it.
He wants to START with a Level 20 character? You need to have a conversation with your friend. And while there's nothing in the rules that says players can't control more than one character, there's also nothing that says you can't disallow it. 10 players in a party is hard enough, but 5 to 10 controlled by one player? His brain is going to melt trying to keep track of everything, and he's going to completely monopolize the time.
Serious question, has this person ever played D&D before?
Tell them no. I only had one player who could handle three pcs as individuals and that was back in 84. Some people can handle 2 pcs as individuals. Most can handle one pc at a time. You are the DM. You set the level of the pcs. If he will not take no for an answer, then save time and don't play with him as the dm.
Tell them no. I only had one player who could handle three pcs as individuals and that was back in 84. Some people can handle 2 pcs as individuals. Most can handle one pc at a time. You are the DM. You set the level of the pcs. If he will not take no for an answer, then save time and don't play with him as the dm.
Even if they actually can handle multiple characters at a time, there's the issue that it gives that player a much bigger slice of everything. In combat he gets to take more turns. Out of combat, he's got more applicable ability check potential (unless he's running three characters that are completely identical, and even then he still gets extra perception checks for things like finding traps). And he's probably going to be getting a bigger share of the loot since it's typically divided per character rather than per player.
I've been in games where someone else was running two characters while the rest of us had one. It really wasn't fun because that player literally got to do twice as much as everyone else.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Tell them no. I only had one player who could handle three pcs as individuals and that was back in 84. Some people can handle 2 pcs as individuals. Most can handle one pc at a time. You are the DM. You set the level of the pcs. If he will not take no for an answer, then save time and don't play with him as the dm.
Even if they actually can handle multiple characters at a time, there's the issue that it gives that player a much bigger slice of everything. In combat he gets to take more turns. Out of combat, he's got more applicable ability check potential (unless he's running three characters that are completely identical, and even then he still gets extra perception checks for things like finding traps). And he's probably going to be getting a bigger share of the loot since it's typically divided per character rather than per player.
I've been in games where someone else was running two characters while the rest of us had one. It really wasn't fun because that player literally got to do twice as much as everyone else.
Agree mostly with your comment. I often forget that 1 E require 6 to 7 pcs and I generally had a 3 or 4 person group. So doubling up was not an issue. 1E had little to no skill checks and little to none combat options.
5E games are generally geared for 4 to 5 PCs. And healing is easier.
I assume you had some ground rules in mind anyway. Even deciding “everything in an official WotC book is allowed for character creation” is laying out a ground rule, after all. If you haven’t already I suggest you write those out, leaving nothing to assumption, so everybody knows what’s what. One character per player, starting at level X, these sources are allowed but A, B and C options are not, no evil alignments, starting wealth is done like this, the game will start in region Y so everybody has to think of a reason why they’d be there - something like that. Even if you’re very permissive as a DM there should be limits to what’s allowed.
It’s important to establish this, as it’s part of setting the expectations for the campaign. Everybody doesn’t have to have the exact same ideas about how to play, but it’s going to be a problem if there are very different expectations of what your game is going to be like. Maybe you’re creating a fairly standard campaign in terms of roleplay, but a couple of players are expecting an almost diceless game while others are very rules-oriented and assume everything will be done strictly by the book. Maybe you’re going for horror, but some players think it’s light-hearted high fantasy and others expect world-shattering epic events. Maybe some players think the PCs will be established heroes from the start, and some assume all the PCs will be inexperienced 1st level characters only just setting out into the world.
As pwhimp said, do a session zero or equivalent. Get everyone on the same page. It’ll make things easier down the road.
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Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Definitely do a session zero. Also remember that as the dungeon master YOU get to decide which races, classes, levels etc. are compatible with what you are running. It sounds like your friend really likes to make characters and that is fine. Just don't be afraid to tell him to pick ONE that will fit your setting.
For example, in my current campaign, I decided to start at first level. I also asked the players to create characters based only on the Basic Rules. I did this in part because those options are available to everyone for free, but also to keep things more simple for me as the DM. During session 0 we all agreed that each character would be able to multi-class once and that we would use fixed hit points and the optional rules for feats. After talking individually with the players, I have added several more classes and sub-classes to their options. We are now 40 + sessions in and everyone says they are having a good time.
As a GM you need to set limits that will help to define the type of game you are running and also keep the party and encounters balanced. That way every player gets a chance for their character to shine, instead of just one hogging the spot-light. Sure, players will grumble. Things like, "But, I really wanted to..." or "I had this great idea, and now you say it won't fit." but as long as you are being fair -- not letting one player have advantages that you deny the others, most will learn to respect your decisions.
Lastly, If your stubborn friend is entirely set on playing, for example, his level 20 warlock/fighter, try starting a dialogue with something like "I can see why this character is so great, but we are starting at tier one, so can you make a version of him when he was just starting out? What was he like back in the day?" Good luck, and may your campaign bring joy to you and to all your players.
Perhaps your friend isn't aware that D&D is a role-playing game, not a wargame, so everybody generally plays an individual hero rather than a horde of creatures.
I had two reactions to the initial post: The first is that the player will most likely be disruptive, but the second reaction is that you may have found the person that will DM the next campaign. Running tons of characters that range from low to high levels at the start? Sounds like a future DM to me. (Could also be a power-hungry player with no interest in DMing, but just a thought.)
I had two reactions to the initial post: The first is that the player will most likely be disruptive, but the second reaction is that you may have found the person that will DM the next campaign. Running tons of characters that range from low to high levels at the start? Sounds like a future DM to me. (Could also be a power-hungry player with no interest in DMing, but just a thought.)
As a DM: wanting to run tons of characters is often not a good reason for becoming a DM.
The DM is absolutely allowed their fun, don’t get me wrong, but the spotlight should be on the PCs, not the NPCs. A DM who likes their characters a bit too much can lose sight of that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
I had two reactions to the initial post: The first is that the player will most likely be disruptive, but the second reaction is that you may have found the person that will DM the next campaign. Running tons of characters that range from low to high levels at the start? Sounds like a future DM to me. (Could also be a power-hungry player with no interest in DMing, but just a thought.)
As a DM: wanting to run tons of characters is often not a good reason for becoming a DM.
The DM is absolutely allowed their fun, don’t get me wrong, but the spotlight should be on the PCs, not the NPCs. A DM who likes their characters a bit too much can lose sight of that.
I had two reactions to the initial post: The first is that the player will most likely be disruptive, but the second reaction is that you may have found the person that will DM the next campaign. Running tons of characters that range from low to high levels at the start? Sounds like a future DM to me. (Could also be a power-hungry player with no interest in DMing, but just a thought.)
As a DM: wanting to run tons of characters is often not a good reason for becoming a DM.
The DM is absolutely allowed their fun, don’t get me wrong, but the spotlight should be on the PCs, not the NPCs. A DM who likes their characters a bit too much can lose sight of that.
Also as a DM: Wanting to roleplay NPCs has to be at least a part of it. You can want to tell a story all you want, but if you have no interest in developing a wide variety of characters you shouldn't be DMing. On a side note, I was just giving an alternate interpretation of what the other player's mindset might be, as opposed to the tried and true "Session zero...if he doesn't like it, boot him" mentality. Mainly because we just have one side of the story.
For the record: I would just kick the player if I wasn't friends with them. Too much risk. But since it's a group of friends, I would tell my friend something along the lines of "I need you to just stick with one character, that is the same level as everyone else. Once this campaign is over, you can run one that has as many characters and NPCs of whatever level you want."
At a first glance, that's a LOT of characters. I'd be surprised if he could play all of those characters effectively, in both combat and RP. Remember, you are the DM and you get to decide stuff like character level or if he can play five to ten players at once.
To me this is a real red flag. The person might be the greatest ever D&D player in all of history, but it sounds like real trouble. Personally if someone said that to me prior to starting a game, they would be uninvited unless it was a single player game with the player having a small number 2/3 characters. As for levels, you can start them off at what ever you like, but be warned that they all need to be similar levels, and you decide not the player.
High level play provides headaches aplenty to even experienced DM's but for a new DM with limited experience, it is far better to start at level 1 and learn the ropes as you play. Starting with level 20 is like throwing you in the deep end tied to a metalworkers anvil.
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Hello, I just came here to ask a quick question, I am making a campaign for me and my friends, and one of them wants to play five to ten characters at once. I am a relatively new DM and he is incredibly stubborn about everything. he keeps on saying there is no limit to how many characters he can play as during games, the characters he has made are a bard a lvl 20 warlock fighter, and three fighters. if you have any advice with this I would really appreciate it.
Tell him no.
Seriously, it's your game, he doesn't get to dictate how many characters he can play or what their level is. I guarantee that if you let him do this, he's going to try to bull rush you at every opportunity to try and force you to just give him whatever he wants. This will completely wreck the game.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
My advice is to look up what a "session zero" is and have one with your group. During the session, definitely lay down those ground rules about starting character level, characters per player, etc.
As the DM, you are the ultimate arbiter of the rules at your table. While I would hear the players out, players don't tell you what's allowed, you tell players what's allowed.
I agree that you should tell the player no, you should probably also ask why he wants to play multiple characters (with at least one starting at 20th level). Maybe he isn't a good fit for the table and would be happier playing a different game.
He wants to START with a Level 20 character? You need to have a conversation with your friend. And while there's nothing in the rules that says players can't control more than one character, there's also nothing that says you can't disallow it. 10 players in a party is hard enough, but 5 to 10 controlled by one player? His brain is going to melt trying to keep track of everything, and he's going to completely monopolize the time.
Serious question, has this person ever played D&D before?
Tell them no. I only had one player who could handle three pcs as individuals and that was back in 84. Some people can handle 2 pcs as individuals. Most can handle one pc at a time. You are the DM. You set the level of the pcs. If he will not take no for an answer, then save time and don't play with him as the dm.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
Even if they actually can handle multiple characters at a time, there's the issue that it gives that player a much bigger slice of everything. In combat he gets to take more turns. Out of combat, he's got more applicable ability check potential (unless he's running three characters that are completely identical, and even then he still gets extra perception checks for things like finding traps). And he's probably going to be getting a bigger share of the loot since it's typically divided per character rather than per player.
I've been in games where someone else was running two characters while the rest of us had one. It really wasn't fun because that player literally got to do twice as much as everyone else.
Find your own truth, choose your enemies carefully, and never deal with a dragon.
"Canon" is what's factual to D&D lore. "Cannon" is what you're going to be shot with if you keep getting the word wrong.
Agree mostly with your comment. I often forget that 1 E require 6 to 7 pcs and I generally had a 3 or 4 person group. So doubling up was not an issue. 1E had little to no skill checks and little to none combat options.
5E games are generally geared for 4 to 5 PCs. And healing is easier.
No Gaming is Better than Bad Gaming.
I assume you had some ground rules in mind anyway. Even deciding “everything in an official WotC book is allowed for character creation” is laying out a ground rule, after all. If you haven’t already I suggest you write those out, leaving nothing to assumption, so everybody knows what’s what. One character per player, starting at level X, these sources are allowed but A, B and C options are not, no evil alignments, starting wealth is done like this, the game will start in region Y so everybody has to think of a reason why they’d be there - something like that. Even if you’re very permissive as a DM there should be limits to what’s allowed.
It’s important to establish this, as it’s part of setting the expectations for the campaign. Everybody doesn’t have to have the exact same ideas about how to play, but it’s going to be a problem if there are very different expectations of what your game is going to be like. Maybe you’re creating a fairly standard campaign in terms of roleplay, but a couple of players are expecting an almost diceless game while others are very rules-oriented and assume everything will be done strictly by the book. Maybe you’re going for horror, but some players think it’s light-hearted high fantasy and others expect world-shattering epic events. Maybe some players think the PCs will be established heroes from the start, and some assume all the PCs will be inexperienced 1st level characters only just setting out into the world.
As pwhimp said, do a session zero or equivalent. Get everyone on the same page. It’ll make things easier down the road.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Definitely do a session zero.
Also remember that as the dungeon master YOU get to decide which races, classes, levels etc. are compatible with what you are running.
It sounds like your friend really likes to make characters and that is fine. Just don't be afraid to tell him to pick ONE that will fit your setting.
For example, in my current campaign, I decided to start at first level. I also asked the players to create characters based only on the Basic Rules. I did this in part because those options are available to everyone for free, but also to keep things more simple for me as the DM.
During session 0 we all agreed that each character would be able to multi-class once and that we would use fixed hit points and the optional rules for feats.
After talking individually with the players, I have added several more classes and sub-classes to their options. We are now 40 + sessions in and everyone says they are having a good time.
As a GM you need to set limits that will help to define the type of game you are running and also keep the party and encounters balanced. That way every player gets a chance for their character to shine, instead of just one hogging the spot-light.
Sure, players will grumble. Things like, "But, I really wanted to..." or "I had this great idea, and now you say it won't fit." but as long as you are being fair -- not letting one player have advantages that you deny the others, most will learn to respect your decisions.
Lastly, If your stubborn friend is entirely set on playing, for example, his level 20 warlock/fighter, try starting a dialogue with something like "I can see why this character is so great, but we are starting at tier one, so can you make a version of him when he was just starting out? What was he like back in the day?"
Good luck, and may your campaign bring joy to you and to all your players.
Perhaps your friend isn't aware that D&D is a role-playing game, not a wargame, so everybody generally plays an individual hero rather than a horde of creatures.
I had two reactions to the initial post: The first is that the player will most likely be disruptive, but the second reaction is that you may have found the person that will DM the next campaign. Running tons of characters that range from low to high levels at the start? Sounds like a future DM to me. (Could also be a power-hungry player with no interest in DMing, but just a thought.)
As a DM: wanting to run tons of characters is often not a good reason for becoming a DM.
The DM is absolutely allowed their fun, don’t get me wrong, but the spotlight should be on the PCs, not the NPCs. A DM who likes their characters a bit too much can lose sight of that.
Want to start playing but don't have anyone to play with? You can try these options: [link].
Totally agree
Also as a DM: Wanting to roleplay NPCs has to be at least a part of it. You can want to tell a story all you want, but if you have no interest in developing a wide variety of characters you shouldn't be DMing. On a side note, I was just giving an alternate interpretation of what the other player's mindset might be, as opposed to the tried and true "Session zero...if he doesn't like it, boot him" mentality. Mainly because we just have one side of the story.
For the record: I would just kick the player if I wasn't friends with them. Too much risk. But since it's a group of friends, I would tell my friend something along the lines of "I need you to just stick with one character, that is the same level as everyone else. Once this campaign is over, you can run one that has as many characters and NPCs of whatever level you want."
At a first glance, that's a LOT of characters. I'd be surprised if he could play all of those characters effectively, in both combat and RP. Remember, you are the DM and you get to decide stuff like character level or if he can play five to ten players at once.
Now everything you know has disappeared
It's gonna get weird...
To me this is a real red flag. The person might be the greatest ever D&D player in all of history, but it sounds like real trouble. Personally if someone said that to me prior to starting a game, they would be uninvited unless it was a single player game with the player having a small number 2/3 characters. As for levels, you can start them off at what ever you like, but be warned that they all need to be similar levels, and you decide not the player.
High level play provides headaches aplenty to even experienced DM's but for a new DM with limited experience, it is far better to start at level 1 and learn the ropes as you play. Starting with level 20 is like throwing you in the deep end tied to a metalworkers anvil.