I was looking into making lock picking more interesting than just a DC # Thieves' Tool check, but what I found on the internet wasn't to my satisfaction. It either introduced a non-D&D game element, or substituted the Thieves' Tool check with a different die roll, and didn't offer any meaningful choice to the player.

So I tried to come up with something of my own, and I'm actually quite happy with my 2nd version of it (1st version quoted in post 5).

I'd be happy for any feedback, and if you like it, feel free to use it at your table.

The goal was to give the DM an option to increase tension without just raising the lock DC, and to establish how long it may take to pick the lock. You can also introduce drama by making a prolonged effort in picking a lock during combat over several rounds.

Players gain a tactical choice if they want to risk making picking the lock faster, but more difficult.

Bear in mind that adding Complexity is effectively adding to difficulty, so a lock with DC 15 and Complexity 5 is similar to a lock with DC 20 without More Interesting Lock Picking rules.

Under these expanded lock picking rules, locks gain an additional stat: Complexity, and two additional conditions: Tampered, Frozen

Unless otherwise specified, locks have Complexity 1

The DM should either tell the player the lock's DC and Complexity, or may require a roll for the character to find out. Intelligence (Thieves' Tools) or (Investigation), or Wisdom (Perception) may be useful.

In order to open a lock, you need to overcome the lock's DC as usual. When you beat the DC, the lock's Complexity is reduced by the number of points you exceed the DC, minimum of 1. If you reduce Complexity to 0 or less, the lock opens.

You may take a penalty on your lockpicking roll of up to your proficiency bonus, if you beat the lock's DC, you reduce the lock's Complexity by an additional number equaling twice that amount.

If you did not open the lock on your roll, you must spend an action to continue your attempt on your next turn, otherwise the Complexity resets to its original value. Alternately, if you have a feature that allows you to use Thieves’ Tools with a bonus action, you may choose to use a bonus action to continue. Optionally, the DM may require you to concentrate on a sustained lock picking attempt.

If you fail the DC, the lock becomes Tampered. Someone inspecting the lock will notice it has been tampered with on a successful Wisdom (Perception) roll with a DC equal to the roll that caused the condition. A mending spell will remove this condition.

If you fail half the lock's DC, the lock additionally becomes Frozen. A Frozen lock can neither be opened with Thieves' Tools nor the original key. A mending spell can remove both conditions, but only one of them per casting.

Both conditions can also be removed by a tinkerer or locksmith by dismantling and reassembling the lock. This would take a lot longer and should probably be treated as downtime. It also may not be possible if they can’t access the lock’s mechanism.

Example: a lock with DC 15, Complexity 5

• the picker rolls Dexterity (Thieves' Tools): 17, reducing the lock's Complexity by 2, requiring a second roll to open the lock.
• for the second roll the picker rolls a 6, failing to reduce Complexity, and causing the lock to become both Tampered and Frozen.
• after two mending spells (=2 minutes) the lock resets to its original Complexity 5 and both conditions are removed
• the picker attempts to open the lock again, this time taking a -2 penalty, rolling 15. Complexity is reduced by 1 plus 2x2=4 for a total of 5, opening the lock

This is an interesting approach. I have planned to use a similar thing which would be a cumulative amount that's needed to be rolled (EG 25) over multiple sequential actions.

I feel like this relies very heavily on Mending. If a lockpick doesn't have Mending, then they are not going to get far.

One thing I would consider for this is using the existing rules for Concentration when lockpicking, so breaking concentration would reset the lock. I would also like to see a rule for Forcing a lock, where you can mangle the thing to gain access, but leave it very obviously broken into. Generally, in a dungeon, people won't care too much about leaving traces - in a nobles house, much more so!

I would have Frozen require a successful check to unfreeze it - no progress in picking it, just regaining access to it. The lock can be jammed by picking, then it should be un-jammable by picking as well.

Thank you for your feedback, I really appreciate it! 

Quote from ThorukDuckSlayer>>

This is an interesting approach. I have planned to use a similar thing which would be a cumulative amount that's needed to be rolled (EG 25) over multiple sequential actions.

I feel like this relies very heavily on Mending. If a lockpick doesn't have Mending, then they are not going to get far.

From a mechanical point of view, I wanted a fail state that is somewhat definitive. The usual lockpicking either works or not. Then you may try again? Endlessly?

I wanted there to be an end, where the player decides to give up or be forced to spend other resources. Mending would be one of those resources, which could come from another party member, or the party would have to find a different way around the lock.

One thing I would consider for this is using the existing rules for Concentration when lockpicking, so breaking concentration would reset the lock.

You are very right. The process should be similar to casting a spell over several turns. As it is mundane, however, I did not want to use up concentration, to not force a spellcaster to chose between a concentration spell and picking a lock, if that ever came into conflict. It might be worthwhile, though, to introduce a interruption mechanic, just as concentration can be interrupted :)

I would also like to see a rule for Forcing a lock, where you can mangle the thing to gain access, but leave it very obviously broken into. Generally, in a dungeon, people won't care too much about leaving traces - in a nobles house, much more so!

Breaking the lock is always a *viable* option, but I think that's when the Barbarian should take the task on ;)

I would have Frozen require a successful check to unfreeze it - no progress in picking it, just regaining access to it. The lock can be jammed by picking, then it should be un-jammable by picking as well.

You made me think long and hard about that one.

I don't think I want that for my table, though. This would just make it way to many rolls of Thieves' Tools for the same lock. I would introduce a lock with Complexity probably only in a situation when time is critical, like in the middle of combat, or when you need to gain access before the guard returns on his patrol. So I want a state where you need to take substantially more time, like mending is requiring.

I haven't tested the system, yet, and I think even a DC30 lock 'only' has a DC 15 Frozen condition. The target picker would then be a rogue with expertise, and possibly already having Reliable Talent, so that I'm not too worried about it.

Hmm. I think that expecting someone to simultaneously concentrate on lockpicking and on maintaining a spell seems unrealistic. Perhaps allow them to apply Concentration to get a bonus, which can be broken. This would allow them to basically zone-out from what's going on around them, and gain a bonus to lockpicking (perhaps add their proficiency bonus on top of their rolls, even if already added). Alternatively, don't let them add their proficiency if they aren't concentrating on lockpicking. Whilst you could multitask, you can expect to be worse than if you are entirely focused.

So perhaps write it up such that Lockpicking is an action, and Concentrating is a bonus action to apply Concentration to the task and gain a bonus. That way your opening move might take action + bonus action, and then after that your bonus action is freed up for other things, if you can do them without breaking concentration. If you need to run a concentration spell at the same time, it will be more of a strain and your performance should be less.

I see what you mean about it putting a definitive end to the effort. My biggest concern would be that a single bad roll could, theoretically, scupper the entire attempt, particularly if the party has no access to mending. Perhaps a staged effect then - a Frozen lock can be attempted again, and if successful, ceases to be frozen. If failed, the lock becomes "Seized" and must be mended. This stops one bad roll from ruining an entire plan, and adds at least 1 turn to the lockpicking time, which can give good tense situations where time is of the essence. This would tick both our boxes - a definitive end to the lockpicking, and a chance to save a dodgy lock!

I would say there are 3 approaches to getting through a door: picking the lock, which thieves tools is for, and can leave no trace. Breaking the lock, which thieves tools would also be for, and would be obvious. And then breaking the door, which is what axes are for, and is glaringly obvious.

Perhaps it would be a simpler approach, rather than "Tampered" as a condition, you simply have "Broken", which would constitute apparent damage to the lock (very few people will notice scratch marks on the lock, except Sherlock Holmes), which is not to say it's locked or unlocked. So you could have Dexterity to pick a lock and leave it undamaged, and strength to break a lock and leave it damaged. If a lock is Frozen, then it is only obviously damaged if someone tries to use it. A broken lock can be noticed by anyone passing by and seeing it mangled and bent. So the locks would be: Intact, Frozen, Broken. I think that Tampered would be something to only apply in situations where someone would be inspecting it closely - a door lock, no, but a small jewelry box that the owner enjoys looking at when they get it out, yes.

Quote from account256>>

I was looking into making lock picking more interesting than just a DC # Thieves' Tool check, but what I found on the internet wasn't to my satisfaction. It either introduced a non-D&D game element, or substituted the Thieves' Tool check with a different die roll, and didn't offer any meaningful choice to the player.

So I tried to come up with something of my own, and I'm actually quite happy with my 1st version of it.

I'd be happy for any feedback, and if you like it, feel free to use it at your table.

The goal was to give the DM an option to increase tension without just raising the lock DC, and to establish how long it may take to pick the lock. You can also introduce drama by making a prolonged effort in picking a lock during combat over several rounds.

Players gain a tactical choice if they want to risk making picking the lock faster, but more difficult.

---

Under these expanded lock picking rules, locks gain an additional stat: Complexity, and two additional conditions: Tampered, Frozen

Unless otherwise specified, locks have Complexity 1

The DM should either tell the player the lock's DC and Complexity, or may require a roll for the character to find out. Intelligence (Thieves' Tools) or (Investigation), or Wisdom (Perception) may be useful.

In order to open a lock, you need to overcome the lock's DC as usual. When you beat the DC, the lock's Complexity is reduced by the number of points you exceed the DC, minimum of 1.

You may take a penalty on your lockpicking roll of up to your proficiency bonus, if you beat the lock's DC, you reduce the lock's Complexity by an additional number equaling twice that amount.

You can continue the attempt in the next round, but if you interrupt the lockpicking, the Complexity resets to its original value.

If you fail the DC, the lock becomes Tampered. Someone inspecting the lock will notice it has been tampered with on a successful Wisdom (Perception) DC10 roll. A mending spell will remove this condition.

If you fail half the lock's DC, the lock additionally becomes Frozen. A Frozen lock can neither be opened with Thieves' Tools nor the original key. A mending spell can remove both conditions, but only one of them per casting.

Both conditions can also be removed by a tinkerer or locksmith by dismantling and reassembling the lock. This would take a lot longer and should probably be treated as downtime. It also may not be possible if they can’t access the lock’s mechanism.

Example: a lock with DC 15, Complexity 5

• the picker rolls Dexterity (Thieves' Tools): 17, reducing the lock's Complexity by 2, requiring a second roll to open the lock.
• for the second roll the picker rolls a 6, failing to reduce Complexity, and causing the lock to become both Tampered and Frozen.
• after two mending spells (=2 minutes) the lock resets to its original Complexity 5 and both conditions are removed
• the picker attempts to open the lock again, this time taking a -2 penalty, rolling 15. Complexity is reduced by 1 plus 2x2=4 for a total of 5, opening the lock

I really do like where you're going with this, and whilst I like the mechanics you're putting down, I'm beginning to feel concerned that there's some bloat in things to be keeping track of. You have Complexity, being an entirely novel addition to the game which exists nowhere else and the DM has to take a note of what you rolled to cause Tampered, for future checks, and then there's whether it's Frozen or not. It works, and I do like it, but I wonder if perhaps it can be smoothed out a little to achieve the same effects with less new concepts to keep track of.

How would you phrase it, if you were using something like this? I'd love to see what you have in mind :) 

I am actually working on something which involves locks, so I've jumped to that section and mocked something up for you with what I'm thinking combined with your ideas for Freezing (renamed "Seizing")!

By my reckoning this:

• Ticks the box for locks to be more of a challenge than number fishing. Good rolls pick locks faster. Spend long enough on a lock and it'll either get unlocked or broken!
• Makes seizing less likely, unless the lock is poorly made, which makes it more likely. I would expect that the better a lock is made, the less likely it is to jam up.
• Makes seizing the first step in breaking the lock, not the only one. You can try to un-seize a lock, at a moderate difficulty (I anticipate people will have +5 at least if they are picking a lock, so it should be 50/50 for them!
• Makes people who can roll 45 for lockpicking feel like they are actually using all those big numbers! This often seems to be where people have a huge pile of +'s, so let's let them use them!
• Uses your Freezing and Tampered conditions, whilst still using mechanics we already have in the game, for the most part

I still need to add Forcing the lock and such, but the rules for picking are here:

Advanced Lockpicking

Locks can vary greatly in difficulty. A simple lock might start at DC15, a lock on a nobles household might be DC40, and just one of several locks on a bank vault might be DC200.

When you use an action to start picking a lock, you first make your opening Dexterity(Thieves Tools) roll and reduce the DC of the lock by this amount. If the lock is reduced to 0 or less, the lock is successfully picked.

If the DC is not reduced to 0, you can use your bonus action to Concentrate on picking the lock, in the same way as for Concentrating on a spell. Whilst you are Concentrating on picking the lock, you cannot move more than 5ft from the lock, and cannot Concentrate on anything else. If you perform any action besides continuing to pick the lock, or do not use your bonus action each turn to continue Concentrating, then the Concentration is broken.

For as long as the Concentration is held, the DC of the lock does not reset, allowing subsequent attempts to continue to reduce it for as long as the Concentration is held.

Any lock which is not being Concentrated on resets to its original DC.

Critical Success

Any roll of a natural 20 for lockpicking reduces the locks DC by an additional 10.

Seizing

Any roll of a natural 1 whilst lockpicking will cause the lock to become Seized. Whilst a lock is Seized, its DC cannot be increased or decreased, and it cannot be locked or unlocked by any means.

You can attempt to free the lock with a DC15 Dexterity (Thieves Tools) check. If this check is passed ,the lock is no longer Seized, and you can use your bonus action to concentrate on continuing to pick it, preventing the DC from resetting. If this check is failed, the Lock remains Seized until it is subject to the Mending cantrip, or until it has been rebuilt using Tinkerers Tools or Locksmiths Tools, taking 2 minutes per starting DC of the lock (IE, a DC30 lock will take 60 minutes to rebuild). After this process, the lock can be left Locked or Unlocked.

Signs of Tampering

Any roll that is both less than 20 and less than 1/2 of the starting DC of the lock will cause visible signs of tampering on the lock. Whether these are likely to be noticed will be dependent on the location of the lock - a scratch on the old lock on a door is more likely to go unnoticed than one on the decorative lock of a jewelry box. Signs of Tampering can be removed using the Mending cantrip.

Poorly Built Locks

A Lock which is Poorly Built becomes Seized when the lock picking roll is both less than 15 and less than 1/2 of the starting DC of the lock.

Also an interesting take. You basically wrapped AC and HP into one roll.

Barring a roll of a 1, though, this will just take time to open any lock without a chance of failure. If you average 10 on a roll (would be higher for anyone with a bonus to Thieves' Tools), even a DC200 lock would only take 20 turns to pick, so 2 minutes.

If you just want to introduce a ticking clock, that mechanic will work fine. If you wanted to require a minimum skill level for a picker, and keep it simple, you could require a minimum bonus on the check. For example a DC 200 lock could require a minimum bonus of +10 on the roll (meaning a novice lock picker may not apply). 

In return, that would be an average roll of 20, opening the DC 200 lock in about a minute.

I take it that the Seized condition is often when a piece of a lockpick has broken off in the lock?

It feels to me like the Mending would need to be cast on the lockpick itself, not the lock, so perhaps require a dexterity check from the caster to get the broken piece of pick positioned correctly against the bit in the lock to Mend it, instead of letting Mending automatically succeed.

If no one has Mending or locksmith/tinkerer tools, then maybe give the DM leeway to allow like a high-DC Thieves Tools check to extract the broken pick, or let an Arcane Trickster's Mage Hand or a small bird companion give it a go.

(I just personally hate the thought of not accounting for or dealing with a broken tool in a lock, is all.)

Edit: D'oh Thoruk already suggested the thieves tools check.

Quote from account256 >>

Also an interesting take. You basically wrapped AC and HP into one roll.

Barring a roll of a 1, though, this will just take time to open any lock without a chance of failure. If you average 10 on a roll (would be higher for anyone with a bonus to Thieves' Tools), even a DC200 lock would only take 20 turns to pick, so 2 minutes.

If you just want to introduce a ticking clock, that mechanic will work fine. If you wanted to require a minimum skill level for a picker, and keep it simple, you could require a minimum bonus on the check. For example a DC 200 lock could require a minimum bonus of +10 on the roll (meaning a novice lock picker may not apply). 

In return, that would be an average roll of 20, opening the DC 200 lock in about a minute.

I'm considering that the better made a lock is, the less likely it is to become seized. This is why I added the "Poorly built lock" rule at the end. So if you were wanting a ticking clock, give them a normal lock. If you want a chance of things going very badly, then give them a Poorly built lock, which will jam up for a pasttime!

I like the idea of a more difficult lock requiring a higher bonus to realistically attempt, but I also prefer (to use games as an example) Skyrim (where any lock is possible but you'd better have a lot of lockpicks) to Fallout ("you can't even try this because you're not good enough).

To this end, it would be an option to change out the very high DC for a negative modifier. So instead of a DC200 lock, you could have a DC30 lock with -20 modifier. If your roll becomes less than 0, then the lock resets, or possible seizes.

In this case, a player with +10 on their rolls would need to be rolling 10+ to not reset the lock entirely, and rolling 19 would only take 9 off the lock. meaning a tense and nerve-wracking set of rolls. A high-end lock might even respond to the poor attempt by seizing to prevent further lockpicking until it is mended.

So with this new idea (which works well as it means that there is a higher chance of outright failure the lower your skills are and the more complex a lock is):

Advanced Lockpicking V2

Locks can vary greatly in difficulty. A simple lock might start at DC10, a lock on a nobles household might be DC20, and just one of several locks on a bank vault might be DC40. Locks also have a negative modifier to attempts, which represents their complexity. As such, a Lock might be described like this:

Lock: DC20 (-5)

Meaning the DC of the lock is 20, and it confers a -5 modifier to attempts to pick it.

A guideline for the complexity of locks is below:

Lock Complexity

When you use an action to pick a lock, you first make your Dexterity(Thieves Tools) roll, and then reduce the DC of the lock by this amount. If the lock is reduced to 0 or less, the lock is successfully picked. If your roll is 0 or less (due to negative modifier of the lock) then the lock is reset to its starting DC.

If the DC is not reduced to 0, you can use your bonus action to Concentrate on picking the lock, in the same way as for Concentrating on a spell. Whilst you are Concentrating on picking the lock, you cannot end a move more than 5ft from the lock, and cannot Concentrate on anything else. If you perform any action besides continuing to pick the lock, or do not use your bonus action each turn to continue Concentrating, then the Concentration is broken.

For as long as the Concentration is held, the DC of the lock does not reset unless your roll is reduced to 0 or less, allowing subsequent attempts to continue to reduce it for as long as the Concentration is held and the attempts are successful.

Any lock which is not being Concentrated on resets to its original DC.

Critical Success

Any roll of a natural 20 for lockpicking reduces the locks DC by an additional 10.

Seizing

Any roll of a natural 1 whilst lockpicking will cause the lock to become Seized. Whilst a lock is Seized, its DC cannot be increased or decreased, and it cannot be locked or unlocked by any means.

You can attempt to free a seized lock with a DC15 Dexterity (Thieves Tools) check. If this check is passed, the lock is no longer Seized, and you can use your bonus action to concentrate on continuing to pick it, preventing the DC from resetting. If this check is failed, the Lock remains Seized until it is subject to the Mending cantrip, or until it has been rebuilt using Tinkerers Tools or Locksmiths Tools, taking 5 minutes per starting DC of the lock (IE, a DC10 lock will take 50 minutes to rebuild). After this process, the lock can be left Locked or Unlocked.

Signs of Tampering

Any roll (after modifiers) that is both less than 20 and less than 1/2 of the starting DC of the lock will cause visible signs of tampering on the lock. Whether these are likely to be noticed will be dependent on the location of the lock - a scratch on the old lock on a door is more likely to go unnoticed than one on the decorative lock of a jewelery box. Signs of Tampering can be removed using the Mending cantrip.

Poorly Built Locks

A Lock which is Poorly Built becomes Seized when the lock picking roll is both less than 15 and less than 1/2 of the starting DC of the lock.

Forcing a lock

A lock can also have a Strength check DC for Forcing it - not all locks do so. Forcing a lock leaves it obviously broken, and it can be repaired using the Mending cantrip once per 5 DC of the lock, rounding up (EG to mend a forced lock of DC13 would take 3 uses of the Mending cantrip).

What do you think?