I hope this is in the correct thread, if not my apologies but i think it fits better in Homebrew than DM only. For my campaign i'm DM'ing i want to give the players a "Boss" kinda monster. there is some story and flavour around it which binds me to some choices. In general they will be fighting in a gladiatoral arena. there will be three fights, and the first will be against the monster i want to discuss here. I would love some genuine input from others, on what i should change (or not change). There are 5 PC's, all level 5. essentially 2 melee (barbarian and a fighter), in ranged a spellcaster, crossbow user and healer. After this fight as stated i will allow a short rest. And there will be two follow up fights, in which they will fight a "hard equivalent" encounter with multiple monsters.
The monster they will fight will be one single monster. Now i've seen alot of posts where 5E is not designed to be 1vMany etc. But just because it's flavour, i would like to try and pull this off. They also will not be able to Die due to "in campaign rules" that will be held at the gladiatoral arena so to speak. They will know this, but i do not want to bring in an impossible challenge in which the spellcasters might use all their resources, and the 2 fights after this become much harder then they should. I have based this monster on a CR9 monster on a Champion descirbed in Volo's guide to Monsters (p212). From some tips i've gathered to try and pull off a "1 creature" fight like this, i did the following:
- I gave it the legendary status: meaning legendary resistance and three legendary actions (1 single attack using the equiped weapon, trip 1 enemy, stow weapon). I also gave him Feline Agility, a Tabaxi specific trait, to make him more mobile (see below). For the rest i did not change any other stats
Even with these things, i do feel that because it's 5 vs 1, his health will deplete very very fast. So i'm toying with the idea of maximizing his health (220), and maybe even do it times 1.5 or 2 (330-440 hp). To give an idea about how i want to play him: I'm not planning to have him wail on only one or two of the characters (the melees). This is why i gave him the legendary action to stow his weapon and trip attack. This would allow him to for example be in a melee brawl. After a PC's turn try to trip his opponent (possible opportunity attack with disadvantage), and on another stow his greatsword. Once it's his turn, the free action would be to grab out his shortbow, move away (maybe even with feline agility giving him more movement speed) and then try to hit the ranged fighters. This would create a more dynamic fight, then just one or two guys tanking the damage while the third heals it off.
But that's where i'm fearfull. this is a CR9 monster at base, which i now made stronger with legendary actions, that will be fighting 5 level 5 characters. i want it to be a challenge in which my PC's will atleast feel they did something heroic, i don't want this monster to drop like a hammer after the first round, you can only say 'it's looking wounded' so much ofcourse. On the other hand having it TPK the party with ease would be unsatisfying (not necissarily the loss, but how they lost).
I put the statblock i created (image) in the spoiler below.
So, suggestions and feedback are highly welcome! If you feel this is to overpowered, underpowered or you would tackle it a bit differently let me know! I highly appreciate any honest critisiscm and concerns. So thanks in advance!
You know your party way better than I do. That said, I'm assuming you want this fight to feel like they've been wrestling with an octopus.
You might be able to increase durability by using the second wind ability as a Legendary, and allow it to be used 2-3 times/rest vs. just once. the additional 20 hp doesn't swing the defensive CR up much at all.
Offensively, this is generally overpowered. Strongest attack over 3 rounds nets ~104 average damage. (Assuming that GS(19pts)x3 - on turn + GS(19pts)x3 - legendary=104 DPR) On a >1/2 health Crit, we see around 57 damage in one strike. For some perspective, your average HD 5th lvl Barbarian with 20 Con would show up with around 65 HP. A comparable Wizard with a 20 Con would be in the 32HP ballpark. This would be the portion that marks this foe as potentially deadly. I might suggest something like dialing this back by a die to 2D4 vs 2D6.
Take a look at a solid DC for the trip attack at something like 8+PB+Ability MOD. In this instance, it would turn into DC 17 (assuming a +5 STR and +4 PB). Now that we see the (average) DC for the save, we might be looking at more frequent advantage on our GS attacks. Food for thought. Also, adding a disarm attack without the damage applied might add to the "fun".
I might suggest adding a disengage or parry function somewhere as a legendary action option or a reaction. This would potentially add some damage avoidance without adding lethality.
Anyway. Just a thought.
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“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Thanks for the insight. Your "you know your party way better than i do" and did notice that one holds a particular counter to this monster. Looking at what you say with the damage per round, i understand and that is what i feared at the start. I really really thought about adding a parry or disengage option, but i never thought of it as "damage avoidance". You are indeed right, adding an option like this would not make this more deadly (per round) but more enduring, which might be the thing i need. I am going to consider doing that. I was going to have him run around and divert it's attacks over the players (e.g. have him round around with it's greatsword and hit one melee, run past a caster and hit him, and then continue onwards to hit the last caster. Possibly using the Feline Agility to make him more mobile to actually do that. His legendary reaction then would be to stow his greatsword and start pelting down on the ranged guys with arrows for example. Just really make this a mobile fight.
Your tip on the DC is a good one! i'm going to take that with me, and the disarm is something i will look into, although i will need to look into disarm, as i feel disarming is just dropping the weapon and the player can use it's free action to just pick it up again.
Thanks alot for your insight! Any more is apreciated but i do think i got good input for this monster!
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Hi all,
I hope this is in the correct thread, if not my apologies but i think it fits better in Homebrew than DM only. For my campaign i'm DM'ing i want to give the players a "Boss" kinda monster. there is some story and flavour around it which binds me to some choices. In general they will be fighting in a gladiatoral arena. there will be three fights, and the first will be against the monster i want to discuss here. I would love some genuine input from others, on what i should change (or not change). There are 5 PC's, all level 5. essentially 2 melee (barbarian and a fighter), in ranged a spellcaster, crossbow user and healer. After this fight as stated i will allow a short rest. And there will be two follow up fights, in which they will fight a "hard equivalent" encounter with multiple monsters.
The monster they will fight will be one single monster. Now i've seen alot of posts where 5E is not designed to be 1vMany etc. But just because it's flavour, i would like to try and pull this off. They also will not be able to Die due to "in campaign rules" that will be held at the gladiatoral arena so to speak. They will know this, but i do not want to bring in an impossible challenge in which the spellcasters might use all their resources, and the 2 fights after this become much harder then they should. I have based this monster on a CR9 monster on a Champion descirbed in Volo's guide to Monsters (p212). From some tips i've gathered to try and pull off a "1 creature" fight like this, i did the following:
- I gave it the legendary status: meaning legendary resistance and three legendary actions (1 single attack using the equiped weapon, trip 1 enemy, stow weapon). I also gave him Feline Agility, a Tabaxi specific trait, to make him more mobile (see below). For the rest i did not change any other stats
Even with these things, i do feel that because it's 5 vs 1, his health will deplete very very fast. So i'm toying with the idea of maximizing his health (220), and maybe even do it times 1.5 or 2 (330-440 hp). To give an idea about how i want to play him: I'm not planning to have him wail on only one or two of the characters (the melees). This is why i gave him the legendary action to stow his weapon and trip attack. This would allow him to for example be in a melee brawl. After a PC's turn try to trip his opponent (possible opportunity attack with disadvantage), and on another stow his greatsword. Once it's his turn, the free action would be to grab out his shortbow, move away (maybe even with feline agility giving him more movement speed) and then try to hit the ranged fighters. This would create a more dynamic fight, then just one or two guys tanking the damage while the third heals it off.
But that's where i'm fearfull. this is a CR9 monster at base, which i now made stronger with legendary actions, that will be fighting 5 level 5 characters. i want it to be a challenge in which my PC's will atleast feel they did something heroic, i don't want this monster to drop like a hammer after the first round, you can only say 'it's looking wounded' so much ofcourse. On the other hand having it TPK the party with ease would be unsatisfying (not necissarily the loss, but how they lost).
I put the statblock i created (image) in the spoiler below.
So, suggestions and feedback are highly welcome! If you feel this is to overpowered, underpowered or you would tackle it a bit differently let me know! I highly appreciate any honest critisiscm and concerns. So thanks in advance!
You know your party way better than I do. That said, I'm assuming you want this fight to feel like they've been wrestling with an octopus.
You might be able to increase durability by using the second wind ability as a Legendary, and allow it to be used 2-3 times/rest vs. just once. the additional 20 hp doesn't swing the defensive CR up much at all.
Offensively, this is generally overpowered. Strongest attack over 3 rounds nets ~104 average damage. (Assuming that GS(19pts)x3 - on turn + GS(19pts)x3 - legendary=104 DPR) On a >1/2 health Crit, we see around 57 damage in one strike. For some perspective, your average HD 5th lvl Barbarian with 20 Con would show up with around 65 HP. A comparable Wizard with a 20 Con would be in the 32HP ballpark. This would be the portion that marks this foe as potentially deadly. I might suggest something like dialing this back by a die to 2D4 vs 2D6.
Take a look at a solid DC for the trip attack at something like 8+PB+Ability MOD. In this instance, it would turn into DC 17 (assuming a +5 STR and +4 PB). Now that we see the (average) DC for the save, we might be looking at more frequent advantage on our GS attacks. Food for thought. Also, adding a disarm attack without the damage applied might add to the "fun".
I might suggest adding a disengage or parry function somewhere as a legendary action option or a reaction. This would potentially add some damage avoidance without adding lethality.
Anyway. Just a thought.
“Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness, and many of our people need it sorely on these accounts. Broad, wholesome, charitable views of men and things cannot be acquired by vegetating in one little corner of the earth all one's lifetime.” - Mark Twain - Innocents Abroad
Hi! I finally am able to react.
Thanks for the insight. Your "you know your party way better than i do" and did notice that one holds a particular counter to this monster. Looking at what you say with the damage per round, i understand and that is what i feared at the start. I really really thought about adding a parry or disengage option, but i never thought of it as "damage avoidance". You are indeed right, adding an option like this would not make this more deadly (per round) but more enduring, which might be the thing i need. I am going to consider doing that. I was going to have him run around and divert it's attacks over the players (e.g. have him round around with it's greatsword and hit one melee, run past a caster and hit him, and then continue onwards to hit the last caster. Possibly using the Feline Agility to make him more mobile to actually do that. His legendary reaction then would be to stow his greatsword and start pelting down on the ranged guys with arrows for example. Just really make this a mobile fight.
Your tip on the DC is a good one! i'm going to take that with me, and the disarm is something i will look into, although i will need to look into disarm, as i feel disarming is just dropping the weapon and the player can use it's free action to just pick it up again.
Thanks alot for your insight! Any more is apreciated but i do think i got good input for this monster!