This thread is part of a larger series of threads called FIFY WotC, which seeks to try and revamp/reimagine less popular / mechanically dubious subclasses in 5e. Branching out a little, I thought I might take a look at making some changes to the Order of the Profane Soul subclass for the unofficial Blood Hunter class here on D&D Beyond, developed by Matt Mercer. I should preface this with the fact that I have not yet played a Blood Hunter in any capacity, but am interested in trying it out one day as part of a campaign or one shot. 

The Order of the Profane Soul is a very interesting and unique idea, in that it is modeled after the 1/3 caster chasis (a la the Eldritch Knight or Arcane Trickster), but makes use of Pact Magic rather than Spellcasting. Looking it over, I feel that there are few things still left to be desired by this subclass. Unless I change the entire way an ability works (labeled as FIFY), I have highlighted my smaller changes in red. Let me know what you think, especially if you have played this subclass before

Order of the Profane Soul

Blood hunters belonging to the Order of the Profane Soul have pushed the limits of hemocraft for use against some of the most terrifying creatures corrupting the world. 

 

Otherworldly Patron

When you reach 3rd level, you strike a bargain with an otherworldly being of your choice:

• The Archfey, the Fiend, or the Great Old One, detailed in the Player’s Handbook
• The Undying, from Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide
• The Celestial or the Hexblade, from Xanathar’s Guide to Everything
• The Fathomless or the Genie, from Tasha’s Cauldron of Everything
• The Undead, from Van Richten’s Guide to Ravenloft

The choice you make augments some of your subclass features, as noted below.

 

Pact Magic 

Also at 3rd level, you augment your combat techniques with the ability to cast spells. See chapter 10 of the Player’s Handbook for the general rules of spellcasting and chapter 11 of the Player’s Handbook for the warlock spell list.

Cantrips. You learn two cantrips of your choice from the warlock spell list. You learn an additional warlock cantrip of your choice at 10th level.

Spell Slots. The Profane Soul Spellcasting table shows how many spell slots you have. The table also shows what the level of those slots is; all of your spell slots are the same level. To cast one of your warlock spells of 1st level or higher, you must expend a spell slot. You regain all expended spell slots when you finish a short or long rest.

For example, when you are 8th level, you have two 2nd-level spell slots. To cast the 1st-level spell witch bolt, you must spend one of those slots, and you cast it as a 2nd-level spell.

Spells Known of 1st Level and Higher. At 3rd level, you know two 1st-level spells of your choice from the warlock spell list.

The Spells Known column of the Profane Soul Spellcasting table shows when you learn more warlock spells of your choice of 1st level and higher. A spell you choose must be of a level no higher than what’s shown in the table’s Slot Level column for your level. When you reach 13th level, for example, you learn a new warlock spell, which can be 1st, 2nd, or 3rd level.

Additionally, when you gain a level in this class, you can choose one of the warlock spells you know and replace it with another spell from the warlock spell list, which also must be of a level for which you have spell slots.

Spellcasting Ability. Your chosen Hemocraft ability (Intelligence or Wisdom) is your spellcasting ability for your warlock spells, so you use your Hemocraft ability whenever a spell refers to your spellcasting ability. In addition, you use your Hemocraft modifier when setting the saving throw DC for a warlock spell you cast and when making an attack roll with one.

Spell save DC = 8 + your proficiency bonus + your Hemocraft modifier

Spell attack modifier = your proficiency bonus + your Hemocraft modifier

Alternatively, with the DMs permission, you can choose to use Charisma as your spellcasting ability. Doing so does not affect other features outlined in this subclass which rely on your Hemocraft modifier. 

 

Rite Focus 

Starting at 3rd level, your weapon becomes a conduit for the power of your pact with your chosen patron. While you have an active crimson rite, you can use your weapon as a spellcasting focus for your warlock spells, and you gain a specific benefit based on your chosen pact.

The Archfey. When you damage a creature with a weapon for which you have an active crimson rite, that creature glows with faint light until the end of your next turn. For the duration, attacks against that creature ignore half or three-quarters cover and do not incur disadvantage as a result of the creature being invisible.

The Celestial. As a bonus action, you expend one use of your Blood Maledict feature to heal one creature you can see within 60 feet of you. That creature regains a number of hit points equal to one roll of your Hemocraft die + your Hemocraft modifier (minimum of +1).

The Fathomless. You can breathe underwater. Additionally, once per turn when you damage a creature with a weapon for which you have an active crimson rite, you can reduce that creature’s speed by 10 feet until the start of your next turn.

The Fiend. Whenever you roll cold or fire damage for a spell you cast or for your crimson rite, you can reroll any 1 on the damage die for those damage types, but you must use the new roll, even if it is another 1.

The Genie. As a bonus action, you expend a use of your Blood Maledict feature to give yourself a flying speed of 30 feet, which lasts for a number of rounds equal to your Hemocraft modifier (minimum of 1 round).

The Great Old One. When you score a critical hit against a creature, that creature and any other creatures of your choice within 10 feet of it are frightened of you until the end of your next turn.

The Hexblade. Creatures that lack blood are not immune to your blood curses, regardless of if it is amplified or not. Once while your rite is active, when you target a creature with a blood curse you can choose to amplify it without taking necrotic damage. After you do so, you cannot amplify a curse this way again until you finish a long rest. 

The Undead. When you take necrotic damage, you can use your reaction to halve that damage. In addition, your appearance changes to reflect some aspect of your patron while you have any crimson rite active.

The Undying. When you reduce a hostile creature to 0 hit points, you gain a number of temporary hit points equal to one roll of your hemocraft die. 

 

Mystic Frenzy

Starting at 7th level, when you use your action to cast a cantrip, you can immediately make one weapon attack as a bonus action.

 

Revealed Arcana 

At 7th level, your patron grants you the use of a distinctive spell based on your pact, which is added to your spell list but does not count against the number of spells you know.  

The Archfey. You can cast blur.

The Celestial. You can cast lesser restoration.

The Fathomless. You can cast gust of wind.

The Fiend. You can cast scorching ray.

The Genie. You can cast phantasmal force.

The Great Old One. You can cast detect thoughts.

The Hexblade. You can cast branding smite.

The Undead. You can cast blindness/deafness.

The Undying. You can cast silence.

You cast this spell once using this feature without expending a spell slot, and can’t do so again until you finish a long rest.

 

Brand of the Sapping Scar

Upon reaching 11th level, your Brand of Castigation feature digs dark arcane scars into your target, leaving them vulnerable to your magic. A creature branded by you has disadvantage on saving throws against your warlock spells.

 

Unsealed Arcana 

At 15th level, your patron grants you the use of an additional spell based on your pact which is added to your spell list but does not count against the number of spells you know.  

The Archfey. You can cast slow.

The Celestial. You can cast revivify.

The Fathomless. You can cast lightning bolt.

The Fiend. You can cast fireball.

The Genie. You can cast protection from energy.

The Great Old One. You can cast haste.

The Hexblade. You can cast blink.

The Undead. You can cast speak with dead.

The Undying. You can cast bestow curse.

You cast this spell once using this feature without expending a spell slot, and can’t do so again until you finish a long rest.

Blood Curse of the Souleater

Starting at 18th level, you learn to siphon the life energy from your fallen prey. You gain the Blood Curse of the Soul Eater for your Blood Maledict feature. This doesn’t count against your number of blood curses known.

Mystic Frenzy (FIFY)

Starting at 7th level, when you take the Attack action on your turn, you can cast a cantrip as a bonus action. If you do, you take force damage equal to a roll of your Hemocraft die, which cannot be reduced in any way. 

Additionally, while you maintain concentration on a spell, attacks made with weapons bearing your crimson rite gain a bonus to their damage equal to the slot’s level. This damage is the same type as that associated with the active rite. 

This is broken AF, since the obvious cantrip to use is BB/GFB, and Bloodhunter already gets 2 attacks per Action and gets scaling bonus damage on top of that, and with the Order of Profane Soul gets access to Hex for even more DPR,

At level 7 this would give you: 2x (1d8+DEX+1d6+1d6(Hex)) + 1x BB (1d8+DEX+1d6+1d6+1d8+ (potential) 2d8) = 4d8+3*DEX + 6d6 + (potential) 2d8 = 18+12+21+(potential)9 = 51 DPR at a cost of 1x 1st level spell per combat (that recharges on a SR). 

 ETA: Oops I missed your bonus damage for concentration on Hex as well. So that brings you up to:
57 +(possible 9) DPR. 

Honestly, I have trouble believing that the Order of the Profane Soul is not strong enough already, but I do agree that some of the Rite Focuses are unbalanced; the Undying can be really strong if on the right build so long as there is more than one enemy. Additionally, the Undead is absolutely useless, and the Hexblade is admittedly pretty weak. Also, the way you buffed Fiend makes it way stronger than, say, the Great Old One, which triggers a moderate effect on a crit. It's true that the Archfey was worded jankily, and I agree with your change there.

I think that strengthening Mystic Frenzy is definitely not necessary (as above), and buffing Revealed/Unsealed Arcana by allowing a free cast throws it out of balance even more and inflates the value of the subclass's spell slots. Plus, they never say that the spell counts as a spell known, it's just a spell that can be cast.

Quote from Agilemind >>

Mystic Frenzy (FIFY)

Starting at 7th level, when you take the Attack action on your turn, you can cast a cantrip as a bonus action. If you do, you take force damage equal to a roll of your Hemocraft die, which cannot be reduced in any way. 

Additionally, while you maintain concentration on a spell, attacks made with weapons bearing your crimson rite gain a bonus to their damage equal to the slot’s level. This damage is the same type as that associated with the active rite. 

 

This is broken AF, since the obvious cantrip to use is BB/GFB, and Bloodhunter already gets 2 attacks per Action and gets scaling bonus damage on top of that, and with the Order of Profane Soul gets access to Hex for even more DPR,

At level 7 this would give you: 2x (1d8+DEX+1d6+1d6(Hex)) + 1x BB (1d8+DEX+1d6+1d6+1d8+ (potential) 2d8) = 4d8+3*DEX + 6d6 + (potential) 2d8 = 18+12+21+(potential)9 = 51 DPR at a cost of 1x 1st level spell per combat (that recharges on a SR). 

 ETA: Oops I missed your bonus damage for concentration on Hex as well. So that brings you up to:
57 +(possible 9) DPR. 

The intended tradeoff is that you are inflicting damage on yourself every round you choose to use the B.A cantrip, although admittedly the amount of damage dealt back may be undertuned. At level 7, you are inflicting 1d6 necrotic damage on yourself every turn you choose to do this. That is in addition to any necrotic damage you might be taking from activating your Crimson Rite or from amplifying a Blood Curse. Perhaps the damage dealt needs to be increased to really balance it out. I want this to be something the Blood Hunter can choose to use at crucial moments, but will be dissuaded from using every single round. 

Regardless, I want some unique mechanic for the Blood Hunter that isnt just the Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature, because just reusing that is boring, imo. If you have ideas for an alternative way for this ability to work, I am open to suggestions.  I think one way or another I want to keep the Rite bonus from spell concentration so that this subclass gets some good synergy out of its limited spellcasting. 

Quote from TheBesnatched >>

I think that strengthening Mystic Frenzy is definitely not necessary (as above), and buffing Revealed/Unsealed Arcana by allowing a free cast throws it out of balance even more and inflates the value of the subclass's spell slots. Plus, they never say that the spell counts as a spell known, it's just a spell that can be cast.

 I think that just being able to cast a spell once per long rest, having to ante up one of your few spell slots to use it, and not even being able to choose to cast that spell again with the slots you have available is underwhelming for a subclass feature, especially at level 15 where its the only subclass feature you get. 

Edit. To further clarify my feelings, I also dislike Warlock Invocations that work this way (get a spell, but you can only cast it 1/LR and you still have to use a spell slot). It feels wish-washy and too punishing. I feel like it should either go the route of letting you cast the spell 1/LR, but no spell slot required OR just let you add the spell to your spell list so you can cast it as much as you want throughout the day using your slots. But thats just for an invocation - for a subclass feature, either option still feels underwhelming on its own, so I think that a new spell added to your list + one free casting feels like a more rewarding feature. 

I think one way or another I want to keep the Rite bonus from spell concentration so that this subclass gets some good synergy out of its limited spellcasting. 

Having played a Bloodhunter they are not lacking in damage. Already getting access to Hex makes this subclass a damage MACHINE! The easy obvious build is XbowXpert here for 3 attacks with your Crimson Rite damage every round (and with Profane Soul: Hex!). You really shouldn't add more damage features. 

Mystic Frenzy is a ribbon feature, (like it is for EKs as well), that's why they get a second 7th level feature as well which is the real feature for the level. 

The free use of the spells I agree with; just access to 1 spell is a really sad feature, it needs a boost. Especially since you'll want to save your slots for Hex. 

It doesn't make any sense to have CHA as the spellcasting ability for Profane Soul, you're almost certainly dumping CHA with a Bloodhunter because your top two Ability Scores are your attack ability + your Con, your 3rd is your Hemocraft modifier. Plus the whole flavour of the class is "edge-y weirdo". 

The Rite Focuses are an issue. It's hard to make them both distinct and equally powerful. 

Quote from Agilemind >>

I think one way or another I want to keep the Rite bonus from spell concentration so that this subclass gets some good synergy out of its limited spellcasting. 

 

Having played a Bloodhunter they are not lacking in damage. Already getting access to Hex makes this subclass a damage MACHINE! The easy obvious build is XbowXpert here for 3 attacks with your Crimson Rite damage every round (and with Profane Soul: Hex!). You really shouldn't add more damage features. 

Mystic Frenzy is a ribbon feature, (like it is for EKs as well), that's why they get a second 7th level feature as well which is the real feature for the level. 

The free use of the spells I agree with; just access to 1 spell is a really sad feature, it needs a boost. Especially since you'll want to save your slots for Hex. 

It doesn't make any sense to have CHA as the spellcasting ability for Profane Soul, you're almost certainly dumping CHA with a Bloodhunter because your top two Ability Scores are your attack ability + your Con, your 3rd is your Hemocraft modifier. Plus the whole flavour of the class is "edge-y weirdo". 

The Rite Focuses are an issue. It's hard to make them both distinct and equally powerful. 

 

 I appreciate your perspective on Bloodhunters from having played one. I will try to keep their apparently phenomenal damage output in mind. 

That being said, I disagree that Mystic Frenzy is meant to be just a "ribbon" feature (same for the EK). This sort of ability should be what allows you to feel like a gish. Something that lets you mold you spellcasting and martial abilities together so that you feel like you are benefiting from both simultaneously, rather than the clunky feeling of switching back and forth from being a spellcaster or a martial character with how you use your action. I do not think EK's War Magic does this very well, though. I think that the Bladesinger's unique Extra Attack fulfills this role much better. 

Regardless of if it was intended to be ribbon or not, my intention is to make it something that feels like an actual feature and not a ribbon. I want it to be something that plays off of the Bloodhunter's unique mechanics while also making their spellcasting and weapon proficiency feel like they have combined, rather than being separate and distinct.  Ill try to come up with something that is not so power-heavy and update the initial post when I figure something out. 

One idea I played with for a Sorcerer Gish subclass I made, was the ability to deliver spells through your weapon - i.e. borrowing the idea from Find Familiar - so you could e.g. cast ranged spells in melee without penalty or cast melee spells at range depending on your choice of weapon. I never go around to play testing it though.

I like the idea about channeling spells into your weapon. I think that works really well with Crimson Rites, although I am going to limit it to just spell effects that apply through spell attacks to avoid too much shenanigans.

What I have come up with for now is the Rite of the Mystic. This takes some inspiration from the Ghostslayer's Rite of the Dawn, but deals force damage instead of radiant. Force is a better damage type than radiant in most cases, but you also dont get this special rite until level 7 rather than 3. Replacing Mystic Frenzy with this removes the ability to use a cantrip + weapon attack every turn, but allows you to add your rite damage to the spell attack. I have limited this extra damage to being once, so as to avoid too much extra damage potential with Eldritch Blast or secondary effects of Booming Blade. I also kept the concentration-bit, but changed it to being a bonus to your attack rolls rather than damage.

Ultimately, replacing the original mystic frenzy with this would mean giving up the cantrip + weapon attack combo, but in return youd get a rite option that deals force damage, a way to make your spell attack ranges flexible, a way to deal your rite damage with a spell (that isnt booming blade or green flame blade), and some reliable bonuses to your attack rolls if you are concentrating on something like Hex or Spirit Shroud. I am not sure whether this option is mathematically "better" or not, but I do think it feels more unique to the Blood Hunter's mechanics and sets it apart from the Eldritch Knight

I have been thinking more about our Mystic Frenzy considerations. For the original ability, what sets it apart from the EK's War Magic is that, so long as you have a blade-cantrip, it is ALWAYS better to use the Cantrip+BA Weapon Attack combo than taking the Attack action. The only reason you might not use this combo is if you need your Bonus Action for something else that turn, like activating your crimson rite or applying a blood curse. For an EK, the usefulness of cantrip+weapon attack falls off as you get access to making 3-4 attacks with your Attack action; however, this is not the case for the Blood Hunter who only ever gets two attacks. 

For that reason, I am tempted to keep Mystic Frenzy in its original form since it works for this class in a way it doesnt for the Eldritch Knight. There is still one thing I am hung up on, though. Our focus so far has been on using this ability in tandem with our rite weapons by using Booming Blade or Green Flame Blade, but theres one other cantrip this subclass is almost guaranteed to pick up: Eldritch Blast.

If this Blood Hunter multiclasses 2 levels into Warlock (which, as long as their ASIs are fine they can likely afford to do since their subclass capstone comes at 18), then they can get Agonizing Blast as well. This means that by using Mystic Frenzy, a level 20 Blood Hunter could basically be making 4 spell attacks + 1 weapon attack per round. Granted, with the EB they lose out on all of the bonuses from their weapon or crimson rite, but a consistent 5 attacks every turn is nothing to sneeze at, especially for ranged weapon-focused Blood Hunters who may not benefit from using Booming Blade instead.  

Because of the potential combo with EB, I am still leaning towards the idea that this ability needs a rework somehow.

It's only a little bit more damage than typical warlock so I don't think it is that broken, an EK with a 2 level dip into Warlock would get the same thing, and since neither EK nor Bloodhunter are likely to have that high of a CHA mod it I doubt their overall DPR is much higher that a straight warlock.

Yeah, I think ill keep Mystic Frenzy the same as it was. Im still not thrilled about it being exactly the same as War Magic, but I do see that it works well for the Bloodhunter