Hello, recently we've been experimenting with crafting our own spells at the table. I wanted to try and implement a coherent system to do this, obviously it's not perfect as a first draft but I'd like to hear feedback from other DMs. Any wording that is confusing or rulings are free to critique this is my first guide like this so yeaa
This is a very intricate system to determine a skill check to craft spells. I guess my first question is; is this using the existing spell lists and is meant as an alternative to just getting new spells as you level, or is it meant to craft custom spells - aka something entirely new?
Additionally I find it a little strange that the spell school meta properties both include a benefit from having other spells within the spell school and a penalty for not having any spells within the school. Kinda seems like a double dip that basically forces players to first craft a low level spell within the spell school to not get penalized for going for a higher level spell within that spell school. This also serves to separate the spell schools so you're more likely to focus on certain spell schools and ignore others, leading to less diversity. For instance I imagine that every arcane spellcaster wants to dip into evocation for damage spells, and quite likely abjuration for protections and counter spell.
When you craft a spell you can only learn it when you level up. It is free to do so and takes no additional time, but:
Artificers, Clerics, Druids: If you remove it from the list of spells you know, you can only re-choose it when you level up again. These are your special spells, you should always have them.
Bard: Counts as a spell known and if removed you can only add it back when you level up. You can NOT create a spell for another class and learn it as a Magical Secret.
Paladins, Rangers, Sorcerors and Subclasses (Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight) Counts as a spell known and if removed you can only add it back when you level up.
Warlocks: Under 5th, Counts as a spell known and and if removed you can only add it back when you level up. 6th or higher: Mystic Arcanum and cannot unlearn it.
Wizards: Counts as one of your 2 free spells when you level up.
This system lets people do it and makes it cost a resource rather than money and time. We do not like costing money or time because our DM tends to be way to generous with money (and then steals it away with taxes or rogues) and way too stingy with time (you must leave the city immediately because Demons/Artifacts/War/Tax Evasion.)
With regards to spells created by other people: Can learn it any time you come across a scroll/spellbook or are taught by the creator. Treat it as any normal spell on your list.
It's meant to craft entirely new spells mainly but I've had players throw around ideas of altering existing spells in interesting ways without just homebrewing the existing one.
As for the spell schools that is actually what I was going for, since initially the idea was for wizards I thought it'd be thematic for people to work up to higher spells by experimenting with lower level spells if they didn't already have some to work with, which could lead to someone taking on quests to get spell books or scrolls to have some prior knowledge. This guide is also meant to scale with player levels so given that they want to start crafting early they will only be able to craft low level spells to begin with.
When you craft a spell you can only learn it when you level up. It is free to do so and takes no additional time, but:
Artificers, Clerics, Druids: If you remove it from the list of spells you know, you can only re-choose it when you level up again. These are your special spells, you should always have them.
Bard: Counts as a spell known and if removed you can only add it back when you level up. You can NOT create a spell for another class and learn it as a Magical Secret.
Paladins, Rangers, Sorcerors and Subclasses (Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight) Counts as a spell known and if removed you can only add it back when you level up.
Warlocks: Under 5th, Counts as a spell known and and if removed you can only add it back when you level up. 6th or higher: Mystic Arcanum and cannot unlearn it.
Wizards: Counts as one of your 2 free spells when you level up.
This system lets people do it and makes it cost a resource rather than money and time. We do not like costing money or time because our DM tends to be way to generous with money (and then steals it away with taxes or rogues) and way too stingy with time (you must leave the city immediately because Demons/Artifacts/War/Tax Evasion.)
With regards to spells created by other people: Can learn it any time you come across a scroll/spellbook or are taught by the creator. Treat it as any normal spell on your list.
I get the leveling progression and everything but how do you balance spells and make it a part of the actual game rather than and out of game back and forth between the DM and player? We also had a system similar to yours previously but it didn't seem very rewarding for the players since they just made the spell and boom it was all done. There was no anticipation or excitement behind the process.
The guide is trying to quantify the initial process of making a spell and hopefully giving players an extra goal to work on over time. I should explicitly state the aftermaths of a successful creation but it was intended to be a spell added to their spell list once it's complete given the time it takes. They can treat it as any other spell from then on out.
It's meant to craft entirely new spells mainly but I've had players throw around ideas of altering existing spells in interesting ways without just homebrewing the existing one.
As for the spell schools that is actually what I was going for, since initially the idea was for wizards I thought it'd be thematic for people to work up to higher spells by experimenting with lower level spells if they didn't already have some to work with, which could lead to someone taking on quests to get spell books or scrolls to have some prior knowledge. This guide is also meant to scale with player levels so given that they want to start crafting early they will only be able to craft low level spells to begin with.
Hmm... it's an interesting idea but I feel like it has a slight disconnect between user perception and outcome. First I want to know what determines a spell's level? That doesn't seem to be touched upon in the guide nor in your post. The spell's level is a major player in the DC skill check, the amount of time and money needed to make the spell. And contrary to making a user incentive to increase their spell's level, the higher the spell level, the higher the DC skill check becomes. Here there would have been a welcome incentive to reduce the DC check by going up in level - so if you really want to make a killer 1 level spell it is either extremely difficult or outright impossible, while upping it to lvl 3 might make it more probable. The issue with making the user determine the level is obviously a mischievous player making an exceptionally strong spell at a much too low spell level and then they roll the dice on whether they can make the skill check. Then again the entire mechanic is a meta-thinking puzzle where the player wants to find out the easiest way to achieve power through the mechanic whilst still being attainable.
I feel like this guide is a bit backwards or is it meant to be a DC generator for the GM only? Thus the player just says what they want to apply to the crafting of this and then into the GM's black box it goes and out pops a DC skill check that might even end up being too extreme for them to feasibly pass? How much agency does the player actually have in crafting a spell they can feasibly pass the DC of? If this guide is supposed to be usable by the players to get a feeling for what they might be able to invent for new spells, it leaves a large unknown variable in the form of the spell level.
This also puts a large burden on the GM to determine/balance a spell's given level, especially if on the go during a session.
Then lets just briefly mention that casting times don't have a good segregation when you switch from one to the other. There's no reason for the player to want a casting time of 5 minutes compared to say 4 rounds or the equivalent of 24 seconds.
Another small note regarding damage type. Thunder is almost as rarely resisted or immune to as Force. I would swap it with Necrotic which is heavily more resisted and immune to.
I'll just take a crack at making a spell, lets say a weapon attack add-on similar to Booming Blade.
I have another lvl 1 spell in the school of Evocation -X DC (depending on what the final level of the spell is going to be)
Casting time: 1 action +0 DC
Range: Self +0 DC
Components: V, S, M (a melee weapon worth at least 1 sp) +0 DC
Duration: Wobbling between instant and a duration less than 1 minute, as Booming Blade has a duration of 1 round, lets say <1 minute = +1 DC
Spell effects:
Single target = +1 DC
Damage dice; lets wait with damage for a minute
Damage type force = +1 DC
Conditions, lets add Blinded = +1 DC
Blinded condition has a duration of 1 minute = +1 DC
It's technically not a spell attack, but it uses the enemy's AC so yes? = -3 DC
Saving throw is a bit weirdly formulated here in distinction between the actual weapon attack and the condition applied, but lets say no saving throw because granting a saving throw only reduces the DC by a smaller amount = +0 DC (if not providing a saving throw applies the +5 penalty, then obviously it's better to put in the nothing happens -3 DC instead, which I would assume only applies to the condition and not the damage as only the condition triggered the saving throw penalty)
Requiring senses... I mean line of sight is required to make a melee attack, but isn't it a bit cheese to just add a -2 here? Ah well we go with it = -2 DC
That makes a DC check of 15 base + Spell Level X + 0 from meta properties. The average d20 roll is 10.5. Lets add the +3 INT modifier of a lvl 1 wizard. That's 13.5. Even without damage and few actual difficult conditions/effects, the spell is borderline improbable to learn without the help of additional arcane users.
If I add 4 more arcane users for -2 x 4 the DC goes down from >16 to >8. This leave quite a bit of room to add damage, but then you always need a gaggle of spell casters to get anywhere.
In short: there's definitely some rebalancing needed between the DC modifiers if a base Booming Blade esque spell is near improbable to craft alone.
I have to cut it short here.
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Hello, recently we've been experimenting with crafting our own spells at the table. I wanted to try and implement a coherent system to do this, obviously it's not perfect as a first draft but I'd like to hear feedback from other DMs. Any wording that is confusing or rulings are free to critique this is my first guide like this so yeaa
Google Doc: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sOZbXgabpJ1fL_bmQZxRz4-qKm46DDAEQ6P64C6i0TE
Let me know what you think!
This is a very intricate system to determine a skill check to craft spells. I guess my first question is; is this using the existing spell lists and is meant as an alternative to just getting new spells as you level, or is it meant to craft custom spells - aka something entirely new?
Additionally I find it a little strange that the spell school meta properties both include a benefit from having other spells within the spell school and a penalty for not having any spells within the school. Kinda seems like a double dip that basically forces players to first craft a low level spell within the spell school to not get penalized for going for a higher level spell within that spell school. This also serves to separate the spell schools so you're more likely to focus on certain spell schools and ignore others, leading to less diversity. For instance I imagine that every arcane spellcaster wants to dip into evocation for damage spells, and quite likely abjuration for protections and counter spell.
What we use in my game:
When you craft a spell you can only learn it when you level up. It is free to do so and takes no additional time, but:
Artificers, Clerics, Druids: If you remove it from the list of spells you know, you can only re-choose it when you level up again. These are your special spells, you should always have them.
Bard: Counts as a spell known and if removed you can only add it back when you level up. You can NOT create a spell for another class and learn it as a Magical Secret.
Paladins, Rangers, Sorcerors and Subclasses (Arcane Trickster, Eldritch Knight) Counts as a spell known and if removed you can only add it back when you level up.
Warlocks: Under 5th, Counts as a spell known and and if removed you can only add it back when you level up. 6th or higher: Mystic Arcanum and cannot unlearn it.
Wizards: Counts as one of your 2 free spells when you level up.
This system lets people do it and makes it cost a resource rather than money and time. We do not like costing money or time because our DM tends to be way to generous with money (and then steals it away with taxes or rogues) and way too stingy with time (you must leave the city immediately because Demons/Artifacts/War/Tax Evasion.)
With regards to spells created by other people: Can learn it any time you come across a scroll/spellbook or are taught by the creator. Treat it as any normal spell on your list.
It's meant to craft entirely new spells mainly but I've had players throw around ideas of altering existing spells in interesting ways without just homebrewing the existing one.
As for the spell schools that is actually what I was going for, since initially the idea was for wizards I thought it'd be thematic for people to work up to higher spells by experimenting with lower level spells if they didn't already have some to work with, which could lead to someone taking on quests to get spell books or scrolls to have some prior knowledge. This guide is also meant to scale with player levels so given that they want to start crafting early they will only be able to craft low level spells to begin with.
I get the leveling progression and everything but how do you balance spells and make it a part of the actual game rather than and out of game back and forth between the DM and player? We also had a system similar to yours previously but it didn't seem very rewarding for the players since they just made the spell and boom it was all done. There was no anticipation or excitement behind the process.
The guide is trying to quantify the initial process of making a spell and hopefully giving players an extra goal to work on over time. I should explicitly state the aftermaths of a successful creation but it was intended to be a spell added to their spell list once it's complete given the time it takes. They can treat it as any other spell from then on out.
Hmm... it's an interesting idea but I feel like it has a slight disconnect between user perception and outcome. First I want to know what determines a spell's level? That doesn't seem to be touched upon in the guide nor in your post. The spell's level is a major player in the DC skill check, the amount of time and money needed to make the spell. And contrary to making a user incentive to increase their spell's level, the higher the spell level, the higher the DC skill check becomes. Here there would have been a welcome incentive to reduce the DC check by going up in level - so if you really want to make a killer 1 level spell it is either extremely difficult or outright impossible, while upping it to lvl 3 might make it more probable. The issue with making the user determine the level is obviously a mischievous player making an exceptionally strong spell at a much too low spell level and then they roll the dice on whether they can make the skill check. Then again the entire mechanic is a meta-thinking puzzle where the player wants to find out the easiest way to achieve power through the mechanic whilst still being attainable.
I feel like this guide is a bit backwards or is it meant to be a DC generator for the GM only? Thus the player just says what they want to apply to the crafting of this and then into the GM's black box it goes and out pops a DC skill check that might even end up being too extreme for them to feasibly pass? How much agency does the player actually have in crafting a spell they can feasibly pass the DC of?
If this guide is supposed to be usable by the players to get a feeling for what they might be able to invent for new spells, it leaves a large unknown variable in the form of the spell level.
This also puts a large burden on the GM to determine/balance a spell's given level, especially if on the go during a session.
Then lets just briefly mention that casting times don't have a good segregation when you switch from one to the other. There's no reason for the player to want a casting time of 5 minutes compared to say 4 rounds or the equivalent of 24 seconds.
Another small note regarding damage type. Thunder is almost as rarely resisted or immune to as Force. I would swap it with Necrotic which is heavily more resisted and immune to.
I'll just take a crack at making a spell, lets say a weapon attack add-on similar to Booming Blade.
I have another lvl 1 spell in the school of Evocation -X DC (depending on what the final level of the spell is going to be)
Casting time: 1 action +0 DC
Range: Self +0 DC
Components: V, S, M (a melee weapon worth at least 1 sp) +0 DC
Duration: Wobbling between instant and a duration less than 1 minute, as Booming Blade has a duration of 1 round, lets say <1 minute = +1 DC
Spell effects:
That makes a DC check of 15 base + Spell Level X + 0 from meta properties. The average d20 roll is 10.5. Lets add the +3 INT modifier of a lvl 1 wizard. That's 13.5. Even without damage and few actual difficult conditions/effects, the spell is borderline improbable to learn without the help of additional arcane users.
If I add 4 more arcane users for -2 x 4 the DC goes down from >16 to >8. This leave quite a bit of room to add damage, but then you always need a gaggle of spell casters to get anywhere.
In short: there's definitely some rebalancing needed between the DC modifiers if a base Booming Blade esque spell is near improbable to craft alone.
I have to cut it short here.