Hello all. This is my first ever post, and first time ever doing something like this. With that in mind please bear with me as I fumble through this in probably the most inefficient way possible.
I am not a huge fan of the 2014 Ranger, or the 2024 Ranger. Don’t get me wrong, there are some great and cool things about the class and subclasses that I find awesome. But in my opinion, the class doesn’t truly capture the fantasy of “Ranger” to me… 2 main reasons for this. Firstly, I do not think that the base ranger class should have access to magic. It doesn’t make sense to me why they have a magical connection to nature, or how they can cast spells. Every other spell-caster in the game I understand how they would be magically inclined or how they would gain the ability to cast spells. To me it seems like they just said “well, they’re in nature so they can do nature stuff”. Some subclasses should have access to spells, just not the base class. Secondly, The idea of marking your target as a Hunter or as a marking a target for your beast companion is VERY COOL conceptually, we are barking up the right tree here. However, having a capstone ability of changing a singular d6 of damage to a singular d10, on a spell that you must maintain concentration on no less. Horrible execution. Level 9 Spells allow the strongest casters to hurl meteors from off planet onto their target or alter the fabric of reality, while our Ranger over here gets to do some extra damage (sometimes). Cool, nice, thanks.
So, those are my complaints. Thinking of those complaints I attempted to alter class and subclass features to better fit the Ranger Fantasy as well as provide a more interesting class to play. I am not a game designer. This has not been play tested. PLEASE, provide me with feedback, positive and negative. Ultimately this is just for the players I DM for, and I’m just trying to fix the class so that I would be excited to play it. I am about 95% sure that this is all overtuned and needs to be dialed down. I am also aware that there is some crazy Min/Max potential here. But that is where the feedback comes in and is much appreciated. I already plan on doing Beast Master, but if there is any interest in this I would be happy to share my ideas and thoughts on that as well. Below is the jumbled mess of a Class rework I am calling my own.
My 2024 Ranger/Hunter Rework (If a feature does not appear here, it is unchanged from the 2024 PHB Version of Ranger)
FAVORED ENEMY is now Ranger’s Mark - Ranger’s Mark: on a weapon hit you can choose to mark a target with your Ranger’s Mark. While a target is marked you deal an additional 1d6 Damage of your weapon’s type to the target. The number of times you can use your Ranger’s Mark is shown on the Ranger Features Table. (Ranger’s Mark Mimics the spell “Hunter’s Mark” until you get your subclass. I am not sure how this same mechanic would balance across the other subclasses, so for now the # of die rolled would only apply to the Hunter Subclass)
RANGER FEATURES TABLE
Ranger Level
Ranger Herbs Prepared
Hunter’s Mark Die
Hunter’s Trap Points
1
2
1
0
2
2
1
0
3
2
2
2
4
3
2
2
5
3
2
3
6
3
2
3
7
4
3
4
8
4
3
4
9
4
3
5
10
5
3
5
11
5
4
6
12
5
4
6
13
6
4
7
14
6
4
7
15
6
5
8
16
7
5
8
17
7
5
9
18
7
5
9
19
8
6
10
20
8
6
10
LVL 1: Herbal Specialist (Replaces spell-casting for Hunter) - During a long rest you can search for herbs that are beneficial to you and your party. After a Long rest you can select a number of herbs shown on the Ranger Herbs Section of the Ranger Features table, and use them to replicate non damaging 2024 Lvl 1 ranger spells. You can combine two herbs of one kind to enhance the effect. As you increase in Ranger level you are able to find more advanced herbs that provide more advanced effects. EX: At Level 1 of Ranger you can collect and hold 2 Ranger Herbs in your herb pouch. These could be two different herbs or two of the same, and could be chosen to mimic Jump and Cure Wounds. But at Ranger level 13 you would be able to find level 4 herbs that allow you to mimic non damaging spells like Speak with Plants or Water Breathing. (Note on Herbs: Some would have a physical application like cure wounds. Some would need to be eaten or ingested to gain the effect. I chose this because the herb collecting seems much more in line with the Ranger Fantasy as opposed to being connected to the natural world of magic. Basic names could be provided but DM’s could set names, & world building between a player and DM could be naming these together. Realistically this doesn’t feel too mechanically different from spells. But it does open the door for more spell casting focused subclasses of ranger to feel vastly different than martial subclasses like hunter.)
LVL3: Ranger’s Mark Improvement - Hunter’s Mark - You learn to mark enemies as the Hunter’s Conclave does. Hunter’s Mark is a colored powder based substance that you can apply to your weapons. This powder can be used to track, easily see target, and spark reactions that cause elemental damage (fire, cold, lightning, poison, acid). You have a number of Hunter’s Marks equal to your PB. Regain all uses on a Short Rest. Hunter’s Mark is not a spell and does not require concentration.
As a part of a weapon attack or unarmed attack, you can use a bonus action to mark a target with your Hunter’s Mark. Once Marked, you have advantage on wisdom checks to track that target. Additionally when a target is marked you can choose to deal additional damage of one elemental type (Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning or Poison, chosen when marked) or have advantage on your attacks. For this damage you roll a number of d6 shown on the Hunters Mark Damage Die Section of the Ranger Features Table. Your mark wears off when the target is killed, you choose to lose the mark, or 1 hour has passed.
LVL 3: Hunter’s Lore- When a creature is marked by your Hunter’s Mark, you know if it has any Immunities, Resistances or Vulnerabilities, and what they are. You can use a bonus action to observe a creature and learn this information before placing one of your Hunter’s Mark on the target.
LVL 3: Hunter’s Traps - You are able to Create and use traps from the Hunter Traps List. The Hunter’s Trap Table shows the number of traps you can prepare and use. At the end of a long rest you choose which traps to prepare for the day. Your DC for traps is = WIS MOD + PB + 8. Your attack bonus with traps is = WIS MOD + PB. All traps are activated by using a reaction when a creature moves. You can choose any point along the creature’s movement point to activate the trap. These traps do not require you to place them before initiative is rolled or mid combat. (The idea here is that you as a hunter are always prepared and can spring the trap in an instant) As you increase in level you will gain access to more traps. Traps cost a number of points equal to their trap level. (Side note on traps: There will be more, this is just a baseline to show examples of what they can be. They will function similar to spells but work based off reactions and trap points)
Trap Type
Effect
Trap Level/Point Cost
Damage
Save Type
Pitfall
Save, OR Drop 10ft down, must climb out
1
1d6 fall
DEX
Tree Snare
Restrained, upside down in air
1
Nonw
DEX
Bear Trap
Restrained
1
2d6 Piercing
DEX then STR
LVL 7: Hunter’s Trap Improvement: Your Hunter’s Trap now applies your Hunter’s Mark when you activate it. This Mark does not cost a use of your Hunter’s Mark. Additionally your Traps now affect a 10ft cube of space rather than a 5ft cube. (Can trap multiple medium creatures or 1 large creature).
LVL 11: Hunter’s Tactics: You gain two of the following features of your choice. When you finish a short or long rest you can change your tactics by replacing them with any 2 of the options listed.
Colossus Slayer: When a creature is below its hit point maximum, you can use one additional damage dice of the weapon you are using on each damage roll against the target. (1d6 for short sword becomes 2d6, etc)
Giant Killer: When a Large or Larger creature makes an attack against you, you can use a reaction to make an attack against that creature. If this creature is not already marked, you can mark them as a part of this attack.
Horde Breaker: When you make a weapon attack, you can make an additional attack with the same weapon on a different target within 5ft of the original target. (This does not stack with Relentless Hunter or Foe Slayer)
Escape the Horde: Opportunity attacks against you have disadvantage.
Multi-Attack Defense: When a creature makes multiple attacks on you, your AC increases by +4. This increase only happens once and applies to all attacks from the creature that is attempting to make multiple attacks against you. If more than 1 creature makes multiple attempts to attack you then this also applies to the additional creature’s attacks.
Steel Will: If you fail a saving throw you can choose to re-roll with advantage (1/Short Rest)
Fire Volley: Use your action to fire a volley of ranged attacks on a group of foes. You make an attack on all creatures within the 20ft Cube. Separate attack roll for each Target.
Flurry of Strikes: Use your action to make a series of attacks on creatures surrounding you. You can make an attack roll on every creature within 5ft of you. Separate roll for each attack. (does not compound with Horde Breaker)
(I am also looking to add more of these that can mimic things like Pass Without Trace, and similar effects of some ranger spells.)
LVL 15: Superior Hunter’s Tactics & Defense: Your Hunter’s Trap now affects a 15ft area and can affect up to a huge creature. Additionally, you gain one additional feature from Hunter’s tactics (3 total) as well as gaining one of the following Defensive Tactics -
Evasion: When subjected to a DEX saving throw, you now take 1/2 damage on a fail and no damage on a save.
Hunter’s Resistance: When an attacker you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to give yourself resistance to that instance of damage and any other damage of the same type until the end of the current turn.
Stand Against the Horde: You face down the horde with extreme efficiency. When 2 or more enemies are within 5ft of you, you gain resistance to slashing piercing and bludgeoning damage.
ADDITIONAL RANGER’S MARK CHANGES: With My rework to the Ranger class having a more specific “mark” to each subclass, The level 13, 17 and 20 features have been changed to also be subclass specific features. They are all still improvements for your Ranger’s Mark.
LVL 13 RANGER’S MARK IMPROVEMENT 2: Relentless Hunter - When making an attack to apply Hunter’s Mark, you can now now mark one additional target within 10ft at no cost of your Hunter’s Mark. Additionally you can use your bonus action to make a 3rd attack against a marked target. You have a number of uses of Relentless hunter equal to your Proficiency Bonus. You Regain all uses on a Long Rest.
LVL 17 RANGER’S MARK IMPROVEMENT 3: Precise Hunter - When a creature is affected by one of your Hunter’s Traps and is marked by your Hunter’s Mark, You can expend a use of Precise Hunter to count any hit as a critical hit. You have 1 Use of Precise Hunter, and regain this on a Short Rest.
LVL 20 RANGER’S MARK IMPROVEMENT 4: Foe Slayer - You use your tenacity to slay anything that stands before you. You can use an action to expend a use of Foe Slayer to make 4 attacks against a single target on your turn. The target must be marked by your Hunter’s Mark. When doing so your damage die for Hunter’s Mark increases to a d8. If the target falls due to this attack you can use your bonus action to make two additional attacks against another target that is marked by your Hunter’s Mark. You have 1 use of Foe Slayer, and you regain your use on a long rest.
If you made it this far then thank you for taking the time to read through it all, I’m sure it was quite messy. Please feel free to give me feedback or even just discuss what you think about ranger leaning more into this version of the Ranger Fantasy. I know it’s not all entirely ironed out or perfectly balanced just yet, but I think it’s a great step in the right direction.
While I do like the idea of a non-magical Ranger, this just seems like way too much and way too complicated (there's how many limited use things to keep track of with different recharge rules???). I'd suggest either going the Artificer route and just leaving the spellcasting alone but saying the ranger does it through herbs & traps thus must use a Herbalism kit or a Thieves' Tools set as their spellcasting focus, or completely eliminate it and give them their own unique abilities like the Monk.
Likewise, no matter how hard I try (I've tried to make 2-3 subclasses based on traps) using traps in a non-premediated way just feels wrong. I know people love the idea of a trap-based class/subclass but it just doesn't really work for D&D except in specific niche situations.
It's also way overtuned (adding 6d6 damage each round with Hunter's mark at level 5 is crazy powerful) or e.g. a level 11 Hunter with a Greataxe deals 2d12 (Collossus Slayer)+STR+4d6(Hunter's Mark) +1d6 (Ranger's Mark) on every attack for 2-3 attacks per turn + 1 attack as a reaction with Giant Killer.
This is all good feedback! What I’m getting from your reply:
1. Too Complicated, too many limited use features
2. Overtuned (knew this was the case as I said in my post)
3. Traps may not feel good (would still need play test).
While I may not necessarily agree that the class is too complicated. Spell-casting by itself is already complicated, we have just gotten used to it by playing the game a lot. But, I can definitely see how upon first glance and through my poor wording makes the class more complicated. Also, I went with the reaction style traps because they felt good to me when running the “Flee, Mortals!” Kobolds. I was DM so I suppose I haven’t tried it from the other side. I guess the question there is does it feel worse to use them with a reaction, or does it feel worse when you place a trap down and watch the enemies run right around it? Either way, I thought of some quick adjustments for the critiques you had.
1. Remove traps and trap points, move traps into a Hunter’s Tactic and simplify them. This would allow the player to choose if they wanted to use traps or not, and take away a more complicated limited use feature.
2. Reduce Hunters Mark dmg, (this one would obviously take some play testing which I still have not had time to do. But could easily be done)
3. Traps already removed and made a less integral part of the subclass. This would make the Hunter’s Tactics spread out over the level 3, 7, 11 and 15 subclass features similar to how hunter is now. I don’t mind this, as being able to choose certain abilities after a rest is thematically fitting with an hunter and also mechanically cool.
I think bringing traps off the main class and making them a choice is probably a better overall option. Doesn’t force the players into the trap class but allows those interested to select them. this would bring. The focus back to the hunter’s tactics and the hunter’s mark. Which is good! Thank you for taking the time to read and provide feedback!
Spellcasting is actually relatively simple, you have one resource to keep track of: spell slots, that only recharges on a long rest (usually 1/session max), and a set of abilities that use up that resource to use - most of which require a full action to use. So on your turn you are mostly just choosing to either attack or cast a spell, and only occasionally would combine the two.
In contrast this class / subclass has:
Hunter's Marks that refresh on a SR and combine with attacks but once it becomes Relenless Hunter it doesn't work with all attacks, but now uses a bonus action but requires a precondition of hitting and enemy, but Ranger's mark doesn't require a bonus action and works with any weapon attack? Herbs that refresh on a LR and duplicate all the complexity of daily preparation spellcasting Hunter's Lore that can be a separate bonus action, or part of Hunter's mark Traps that refresh on a LR and duplicate all the complexity of daily preparation spellcasting (but with fewer prepared spells), but adds additional conditions on using it Relentless Hunter that refreshes on a LR, and 1 condition-dependent effect, that makes it more complicated to remember which enemies are / are not Marked, which might? or might not? get used up as a separate bonus action to make an extra attack in addition to getting used up when casting Hunter's Mark?? Precise Hunter that refreshes on a SR and requires 3 preconditions to be met to use Foe Slayer that refreshes on a LR, has preconditions and 1 condition-dependent effect.
You've also make the tactics more complicated and annoying to manage:
Multi-Attack Defense now requires reconning previous attacks depending on what the monster does - e.g. if a Dragon bites you once on it's turn, claws someone else, then makes a legendary tail attack on you, you would now have to go back and retconn whether the first Bite attack hits you or not if you have a +4 bonus to AC.
Horde Breaker - now has an interaction with Relentless Hunter you need to keep track of, so if you e.g. make 1 attack on a marked creature, kill it, use Horde breaker to attack a second creature you can't now mark that second creature with relentless hunter? Or if you use Relentless Hunter to mark 2 creatures you can't also use Horde breaker to attack both of them? But you could if you instead used Flurry of Strikes? or no? Can flurry of strikes combine with Relentless hunter to mark 2 creatures and attack both of them at the same time?
Is "Fire Volley" limited to ranged attacks? or could I fire volley with a polearm?
Steel Will again is now limited use so is another thing that has to be kept track of.
So such a character has 6-7 different resources to keep track of, some that refresh on a SR others on a LR, most of which have different activations and multiple pre-conditions that must be checked to determine if it can be used. They have multiple options for their BA, action, and reaction but almost all are limited use so they need to consider when to use/not use them to ration their resources.
I think when your write it that way it does seem simple, but the hunter class already has a similar number of choices to make when they have access to spellcasting. At level 20(obviously the most complex) you have 15 spells to memorize, can change 1 per long rest and have to track slots of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th level. Additionally Hunter has to choose between two choices for their level 7 and level 11 subclass features which also change on a long rest. That’s 17 abilities to remember (have to know how each spell works) plus hunters mark to keep track of, and spell slots for those spells. And if you really want to know the character well, you have to look at and know what every spell does, even if it’s not prepared in your class. That’s 61 spells to choose from. Sure you can only change one per rest, but they have access to all 61 of those choices, as well as Hunter’s Mark, as well as Hunters Prey, as well as Defensive Tactics, as well as Superior Hunters Prey, as well as Superior Hunter’s Defense.
Now, that’s not to say my class design isn’t complicated, because I definitely see how it is. Between the interactions and my horrendous writing. But let’s make everything more simplified to try and clean it up.
Rangers Herbs: 3 herbs per long rest at all levels and can only replicate 5 level 1 spells. Jump, Longstrider, Cure Wounds, Detect Magic and Fogcloud. Thats 3 resources to track with 5 possible decisions.That seems much more manageable.
hunters mark: you get as many as your PB. Regain 1 on a short rest and All on a long rest. You must hit on your weapon or unarmed attack to apply the mark. Choose damage type when mark is applied.
traps: changed to a tactic so that additional complexity no longer applies to base class and only to those who seek it out. Would also be made simple like the herbs, 5 total traps to choose from, only get 3 per long rest.
with traps being gone, the hunters tactics will be spread across the level 3, 7 and 11 Hunter Subclass features. Allowing you to select 1 out of 3 or 4 choices at each tactics improvement (basically how the old hunter class worked, and since I’m doing this quickly I haven’t worked out which tactics would be at which levels)
Relentless Hunter: Really this is 2 changes. One new ability, and an improvement to Hunters Mark. Improvement- can now mark 2 for price of 1 if within 10ft. Ability- can use BA to make 3rd attack (target must be marked).
Precise Hunter: 2/LR, if you hit a marked target you can choose to double your hunters mark damage. (Seems fair instead of a critical Hit, no longer dependent on trap)
Foe Slayer: 1/LR, ability stays the same. 4 attacks on 1 target, 2 additional as a bonus action if the first target is killed. 2nd target must also be marked.
i feel like this seems much more manageable. Overall, 3 Herbs from a choice of 5, Hunters Mark, 4 total Tactics, Traps (optional) 3 total from a choice of 5, Relentless Hunter = PB, Precise Hunter = 2/LR, Foe Slayer = 1/LR, all recharge on a long rest. That’s 7 total Features excluding the base ranger class features we haven’t mentioned all thread long. Thinking of Foe Slayer as 5th level spell, Precise Hunter as a 4th level spell, and Relentless Hunter as 3rd level spell, and herbs as 1st level spells, this seems equal in complexity to spellcasting with less choices maybe? Either way it’s definitely less that where I started which is great.
I also understand that the tactics interactions were written poorly, so I will try to explain what I meant for those below.
Tactics Interactions -
horde breaker: this interaction applies to the extra attack only. You would not be able to make a horde breaker attack if you used an action to do Foe Slayer multi attack on one target. You also would not be able to do a horde breaker attack if you use a bonus action to Relentless Hunter 3rd attack. If you use a horde breaker attack, you cannot then use bonus action for a relentless hunter attack.
Multi attack defense: does not require retconning. You gain the bonus on every subsequent attack after the first. Example: your is AC 15, a monster makes 3 attacks on you. First attack is a 16, that’s a hit. Second attack is a 17, that’s a miss because of your plus 4. Last attack is a 20, that’s a hit because 15+4 is 19.
Fire volley: Ranged weapons only.
flurry of strikes: Melee weapon only.
steel will: Track your singular use of it per rest, hopefully that’s not too hard. similar to indomitable or flash of genius.
Overall, I definitely appreciate you pointing out the complexity of it all, I think I got carried away when making it. The critiques have really helped me to trim the fat on this subclass. While we may disagree on the complexity of spellcasting, it is nice to have an outside perspective on it all.
For the Herbs it depends what you want to preference, another option could be a table of spells it replicates like the "bonus spells" that paladins get depending on their subclass, or like that list of spells Tasha's gave for free with Primal Awareness or whatever it was called, so you have some higher level spells that are accessed later at the cost of fewer options early on, or stick with just the low level ones that are easier to explain how they work in terms of herbs rather than as magic.
For Horde Breaker you could just specify it is only when you use the "Attack Action" that prevents it triggering on any BA attack, Reaction attack, or special actions like Foe Slayer which I think should cover your bases pretty well.
Precise Hunter feels a bit lame for 17th level, and Hunter's Mark damage scaling feels much to powerful, but the rest of it I really like now.
Okay good! Definitely seems like it’s on the right track now. I personally feel like Beast Master also fits into the “no magic all martial” archetype of ranger. But I think Gloomstalker and Feywanderer seem more likely to cast spells. Also side note, not really a fan of the Feywanderer subclass. I think something that’s more of a true mix between Druid and Ranger would be more appealing and makes more sense to me. Just an opinion though, lol.
I do like the idea of having subclass or “conclave” specific herbs. Maybe a choice of 2 level 1 Herbs for all rangers, then a level 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 herb that is specific to each subclass? Herbs that replicate spells that thematically fit the subclass as well. For the Hunter this definitely makes sense. Could easily apply to Beast Master as well. And I like it.
Horde Breaker definitely needs cleaning up on the wording and this is great advice on how to do it.
Precise Hunter ability I also agree its not too cool for a level 17 ability. I was always a big fan of the steelwind strike spell, so maybe something more along those lines? Not an exact replication of it but something that feels as cool as this does. Something about that spell that just makes you feel badass.
The damage on Hunter’s mark does for sure need tuning. I will need to run some test battles with this new subclass at each tier to see how it feels. Would definitely be too strong with some magic items as well. I will get on this with a moment.
As far as the tactics go, do you think 3 or 4 options at each 3, 7, 11 and 15 would work better? I previously used the already made WOTC tactics, but wonder if some could be made to be more interesting.
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Hello all. This is my first ever post, and first time ever doing something like this. With that in mind please bear with me as I fumble through this in probably the most inefficient way possible.
I am not a huge fan of the 2014 Ranger, or the 2024 Ranger. Don’t get me wrong, there are some great and cool things about the class and subclasses that I find awesome. But in my opinion, the class doesn’t truly capture the fantasy of “Ranger” to me… 2 main reasons for this. Firstly, I do not think that the base ranger class should have access to magic. It doesn’t make sense to me why they have a magical connection to nature, or how they can cast spells. Every other spell-caster in the game I understand how they would be magically inclined or how they would gain the ability to cast spells. To me it seems like they just said “well, they’re in nature so they can do nature stuff”. Some subclasses should have access to spells, just not the base class. Secondly, The idea of marking your target as a Hunter or as a marking a target for your beast companion is VERY COOL conceptually, we are barking up the right tree here. However, having a capstone ability of changing a singular d6 of damage to a singular d10, on a spell that you must maintain concentration on no less. Horrible execution. Level 9 Spells allow the strongest casters to hurl meteors from off planet onto their target or alter the fabric of reality, while our Ranger over here gets to do some extra damage (sometimes). Cool, nice, thanks.
So, those are my complaints. Thinking of those complaints I attempted to alter class and subclass features to better fit the Ranger Fantasy as well as provide a more interesting class to play. I am not a game designer. This has not been play tested. PLEASE, provide me with feedback, positive and negative. Ultimately this is just for the players I DM for, and I’m just trying to fix the class so that I would be excited to play it. I am about 95% sure that this is all overtuned and needs to be dialed down. I am also aware that there is some crazy Min/Max potential here. But that is where the feedback comes in and is much appreciated. I already plan on doing Beast Master, but if there is any interest in this I would be happy to share my ideas and thoughts on that as well. Below is the jumbled mess of a Class rework I am calling my own.
My 2024 Ranger/Hunter Rework (If a feature does not appear here, it is unchanged from the 2024 PHB Version of Ranger)
FAVORED ENEMY is now Ranger’s Mark - Ranger’s Mark: on a weapon hit you can choose to mark a target with your Ranger’s Mark. While a target is marked you deal an additional 1d6 Damage of your weapon’s type to the target. The number of times you can use your Ranger’s Mark is shown on the Ranger Features Table. (Ranger’s Mark Mimics the spell “Hunter’s Mark” until you get your subclass. I am not sure how this same mechanic would balance across the other subclasses, so for now the # of die rolled would only apply to the Hunter Subclass)
RANGER FEATURES TABLE
Ranger Level
Ranger Herbs Prepared
Hunter’s Mark Die
Hunter’s Trap Points
1
2
1
0
2
2
1
0
3
2
2
2
4
3
2
2
5
3
2
3
6
3
2
3
7
4
3
4
8
4
3
4
9
4
3
5
10
5
3
5
11
5
4
6
12
5
4
6
13
6
4
7
14
6
4
7
15
6
5
8
16
7
5
8
17
7
5
9
18
7
5
9
19
8
6
10
20
8
6
10
LVL 1: Herbal Specialist (Replaces spell-casting for Hunter) - During a long rest you can search for herbs that are beneficial to you and your party. After a Long rest you can select a number of herbs shown on the Ranger Herbs Section of the Ranger Features table, and use them to replicate non damaging 2024 Lvl 1 ranger spells. You can combine two herbs of one kind to enhance the effect. As you increase in Ranger level you are able to find more advanced herbs that provide more advanced effects. EX: At Level 1 of Ranger you can collect and hold 2 Ranger Herbs in your herb pouch. These could be two different herbs or two of the same, and could be chosen to mimic Jump and Cure Wounds. But at Ranger level 13 you would be able to find level 4 herbs that allow you to mimic non damaging spells like Speak with Plants or Water Breathing. (Note on Herbs: Some would have a physical application like cure wounds. Some would need to be eaten or ingested to gain the effect. I chose this because the herb collecting seems much more in line with the Ranger Fantasy as opposed to being connected to the natural world of magic. Basic names could be provided but DM’s could set names, & world building between a player and DM could be naming these together. Realistically this doesn’t feel too mechanically different from spells. But it does open the door for more spell casting focused subclasses of ranger to feel vastly different than martial subclasses like hunter.)
LVL3: Ranger’s Mark Improvement - Hunter’s Mark - You learn to mark enemies as the Hunter’s Conclave does. Hunter’s Mark is a colored powder based substance that you can apply to your weapons. This powder can be used to track, easily see target, and spark reactions that cause elemental damage (fire, cold, lightning, poison, acid). You have a number of Hunter’s Marks equal to your PB. Regain all uses on a Short Rest. Hunter’s Mark is not a spell and does not require concentration.
As a part of a weapon attack or unarmed attack, you can use a bonus action to mark a target with your Hunter’s Mark. Once Marked, you have advantage on wisdom checks to track that target. Additionally when a target is marked you can choose to deal additional damage of one elemental type (Acid, Cold, Fire, Lightning or Poison, chosen when marked) or have advantage on your attacks. For this damage you roll a number of d6 shown on the Hunters Mark Damage Die Section of the Ranger Features Table. Your mark wears off when the target is killed, you choose to lose the mark, or 1 hour has passed.
LVL 3: Hunter’s Lore - When a creature is marked by your Hunter’s Mark, you know if it has any Immunities, Resistances or Vulnerabilities, and what they are. You can use a bonus action to observe a creature and learn this information before placing one of your Hunter’s Mark on the target.
LVL 3: Hunter’s Traps - You are able to Create and use traps from the Hunter Traps List. The Hunter’s Trap Table shows the number of traps you can prepare and use. At the end of a long rest you choose which traps to prepare for the day. Your DC for traps is = WIS MOD + PB + 8. Your attack bonus with traps is = WIS MOD + PB. All traps are activated by using a reaction when a creature moves. You can choose any point along the creature’s movement point to activate the trap. These traps do not require you to place them before initiative is rolled or mid combat. (The idea here is that you as a hunter are always prepared and can spring the trap in an instant) As you increase in level you will gain access to more traps. Traps cost a number of points equal to their trap level. (Side note on traps: There will be more, this is just a baseline to show examples of what they can be. They will function similar to spells but work based off reactions and trap points)
Trap Type
Effect
Trap Level/Point Cost
Damage
Save Type
Pitfall
Save, OR Drop 10ft down, must climb out
1
1d6 fall
DEX
Tree Snare
Restrained, upside down in air
1
Nonw
DEX
Bear Trap
Restrained
1
2d6 Piercing
DEX then STR
LVL 7: Hunter’s Trap Improvement: Your Hunter’s Trap now applies your Hunter’s Mark when you activate it. This Mark does not cost a use of your Hunter’s Mark. Additionally your Traps now affect a 10ft cube of space rather than a 5ft cube. (Can trap multiple medium creatures or 1 large creature).
LVL 11: Hunter’s Tactics: You gain two of the following features of your choice. When you finish a short or long rest you can change your tactics by replacing them with any 2 of the options listed.
Colossus Slayer: When a creature is below its hit point maximum, you can use one additional damage dice of the weapon you are using on each damage roll against the target. (1d6 for short sword becomes 2d6, etc)
Giant Killer: When a Large or Larger creature makes an attack against you, you can use a reaction to make an attack against that creature. If this creature is not already marked, you can mark them as a part of this attack.
Horde Breaker: When you make a weapon attack, you can make an additional attack with the same weapon on a different target within 5ft of the original target. (This does not stack with Relentless Hunter or Foe Slayer)
Escape the Horde: Opportunity attacks against you have disadvantage.
Multi-Attack Defense: When a creature makes multiple attacks on you, your AC increases by +4. This increase only happens once and applies to all attacks from the creature that is attempting to make multiple attacks against you. If more than 1 creature makes multiple attempts to attack you then this also applies to the additional creature’s attacks.
Steel Will: If you fail a saving throw you can choose to re-roll with advantage (1/Short Rest)
Fire Volley: Use your action to fire a volley of ranged attacks on a group of foes. You make an attack on all creatures within the 20ft Cube. Separate attack roll for each Target.
Flurry of Strikes: Use your action to make a series of attacks on creatures surrounding you. You can make an attack roll on every creature within 5ft of you. Separate roll for each attack. (does not compound with Horde Breaker)
(I am also looking to add more of these that can mimic things like Pass Without Trace, and similar effects of some ranger spells.)
LVL 15: Superior Hunter’s Tactics & Defense: Your Hunter’s Trap now affects a 15ft area and can affect up to a huge creature. Additionally, you gain one additional feature from Hunter’s tactics (3 total) as well as gaining one of the following Defensive Tactics -
Evasion: When subjected to a DEX saving throw, you now take 1/2 damage on a fail and no damage on a save.
Hunter’s Resistance: When an attacker you can see hits you with an attack, you can use your reaction to give yourself resistance to that instance of damage and any other damage of the same type until the end of the current turn.
Stand Against the Horde: You face down the horde with extreme efficiency. When 2 or more enemies are within 5ft of you, you gain resistance to slashing piercing and bludgeoning damage.
ADDITIONAL RANGER’S MARK CHANGES: With My rework to the Ranger class having a more specific “mark” to each subclass, The level 13, 17 and 20 features have been changed to also be subclass specific features. They are all still improvements for your Ranger’s Mark.
LVL 13 RANGER’S MARK IMPROVEMENT 2: Relentless Hunter - When making an attack to apply Hunter’s Mark, you can now now mark one additional target within 10ft at no cost of your Hunter’s Mark. Additionally you can use your bonus action to make a 3rd attack against a marked target. You have a number of uses of Relentless hunter equal to your Proficiency Bonus. You Regain all uses on a Long Rest.
LVL 17 RANGER’S MARK IMPROVEMENT 3: Precise Hunter - When a creature is affected by one of your Hunter’s Traps and is marked by your Hunter’s Mark, You can expend a use of Precise Hunter to count any hit as a critical hit. You have 1 Use of Precise Hunter, and regain this on a Short Rest.
LVL 20 RANGER’S MARK IMPROVEMENT 4: Foe Slayer - You use your tenacity to slay anything that stands before you. You can use an action to expend a use of Foe Slayer to make 4 attacks against a single target on your turn. The target must be marked by your Hunter’s Mark. When doing so your damage die for Hunter’s Mark increases to a d8. If the target falls due to this attack you can use your bonus action to make two additional attacks against another target that is marked by your Hunter’s Mark. You have 1 use of Foe Slayer, and you regain your use on a long rest.
If you made it this far then thank you for taking the time to read through it all, I’m sure it was quite messy. Please feel free to give me feedback or even just discuss what you think about ranger leaning more into this version of the Ranger Fantasy. I know it’s not all entirely ironed out or perfectly balanced just yet, but I think it’s a great step in the right direction.
While I do like the idea of a non-magical Ranger, this just seems like way too much and way too complicated (there's how many limited use things to keep track of with different recharge rules???). I'd suggest either going the Artificer route and just leaving the spellcasting alone but saying the ranger does it through herbs & traps thus must use a Herbalism kit or a Thieves' Tools set as their spellcasting focus, or completely eliminate it and give them their own unique abilities like the Monk.
Likewise, no matter how hard I try (I've tried to make 2-3 subclasses based on traps) using traps in a non-premediated way just feels wrong. I know people love the idea of a trap-based class/subclass but it just doesn't really work for D&D except in specific niche situations.
It's also way overtuned (adding 6d6 damage each round with Hunter's mark at level 5 is crazy powerful) or e.g. a level 11 Hunter with a Greataxe deals 2d12 (Collossus Slayer)+STR+4d6(Hunter's Mark) +1d6 (Ranger's Mark) on every attack for 2-3 attacks per turn + 1 attack as a reaction with Giant Killer.
This is all good feedback! What I’m getting from your reply:
1. Too Complicated, too many limited use features
2. Overtuned (knew this was the case as I said in my post)
3. Traps may not feel good (would still need play test).
While I may not necessarily agree that the class is too complicated. Spell-casting by itself is already complicated, we have just gotten used to it by playing the game a lot. But, I can definitely see how upon first glance and through my poor wording makes the class more complicated. Also, I went with the reaction style traps because they felt good to me when running the “Flee, Mortals!” Kobolds. I was DM so I suppose I haven’t tried it from the other side. I guess the question there is does it feel worse to use them with a reaction, or does it feel worse when you place a trap down and watch the enemies run right around it? Either way, I thought of some quick adjustments for the critiques you had.
1. Remove traps and trap points, move traps into a Hunter’s Tactic and simplify them. This would allow the player to choose if they wanted to use traps or not, and take away a more complicated limited use feature.
2. Reduce Hunters Mark dmg, (this one would obviously take some play testing which I still have not had time to do. But could easily be done)
3. Traps already removed and made a less integral part of the subclass. This would make the Hunter’s Tactics spread out over the level 3, 7, 11 and 15 subclass features similar to how hunter is now. I don’t mind this, as being able to choose certain abilities after a rest is thematically fitting with an hunter and also mechanically cool.
I think bringing traps off the main class and making them a choice is probably a better overall option. Doesn’t force the players into the trap class but allows those interested to select them. this would bring. The focus back to the hunter’s tactics and the hunter’s mark. Which is good! Thank you for taking the time to read and provide feedback!
Spellcasting is actually relatively simple, you have one resource to keep track of: spell slots, that only recharges on a long rest (usually 1/session max), and a set of abilities that use up that resource to use - most of which require a full action to use. So on your turn you are mostly just choosing to either attack or cast a spell, and only occasionally would combine the two.
In contrast this class / subclass has:
Hunter's Marks that refresh on a SR and combine with attacks but once it becomes Relenless Hunter it doesn't work with all attacks, but now uses a bonus action but requires a precondition of hitting and enemy, but Ranger's mark doesn't require a bonus action and works with any weapon attack?
Herbs that refresh on a LR and duplicate all the complexity of daily preparation spellcasting
Hunter's Lore that can be a separate bonus action, or part of Hunter's mark
Traps that refresh on a LR and duplicate all the complexity of daily preparation spellcasting (but with fewer prepared spells), but adds additional conditions on using it
Relentless Hunter that refreshes on a LR, and 1 condition-dependent effect, that makes it more complicated to remember which enemies are / are not Marked, which might? or might not? get used up as a separate bonus action to make an extra attack in addition to getting used up when casting Hunter's Mark??
Precise Hunter that refreshes on a SR and requires 3 preconditions to be met to use
Foe Slayer that refreshes on a LR, has preconditions and 1 condition-dependent effect.
You've also make the tactics more complicated and annoying to manage:
Multi-Attack Defense now requires reconning previous attacks depending on what the monster does - e.g. if a Dragon bites you once on it's turn, claws someone else, then makes a legendary tail attack on you, you would now have to go back and retconn whether the first Bite attack hits you or not if you have a +4 bonus to AC.
Horde Breaker - now has an interaction with Relentless Hunter you need to keep track of, so if you e.g. make 1 attack on a marked creature, kill it, use Horde breaker to attack a second creature you can't now mark that second creature with relentless hunter? Or if you use Relentless Hunter to mark 2 creatures you can't also use Horde breaker to attack both of them? But you could if you instead used Flurry of Strikes? or no? Can flurry of strikes combine with Relentless hunter to mark 2 creatures and attack both of them at the same time?
Is "Fire Volley" limited to ranged attacks? or could I fire volley with a polearm?
Steel Will again is now limited use so is another thing that has to be kept track of.
So such a character has 6-7 different resources to keep track of, some that refresh on a SR others on a LR, most of which have different activations and multiple pre-conditions that must be checked to determine if it can be used. They have multiple options for their BA, action, and reaction but almost all are limited use so they need to consider when to use/not use them to ration their resources.
I think when your write it that way it does seem simple, but the hunter class already has a similar number of choices to make when they have access to spellcasting. At level 20(obviously the most complex) you have 15 spells to memorize, can change 1 per long rest and have to track slots of 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th level. Additionally Hunter has to choose between two choices for their level 7 and level 11 subclass features which also change on a long rest. That’s 17 abilities to remember (have to know how each spell works) plus hunters mark to keep track of, and spell slots for those spells. And if you really want to know the character well, you have to look at and know what every spell does, even if it’s not prepared in your class. That’s 61 spells to choose from. Sure you can only change one per rest, but they have access to all 61 of those choices, as well as Hunter’s Mark, as well as Hunters Prey, as well as Defensive Tactics, as well as Superior Hunters Prey, as well as Superior Hunter’s Defense.
Now, that’s not to say my class design isn’t complicated, because I definitely see how it is. Between the interactions and my horrendous writing. But let’s make everything more simplified to try and clean it up.
Rangers Herbs: 3 herbs per long rest at all levels and can only replicate 5 level 1 spells. Jump, Longstrider, Cure Wounds, Detect Magic and Fogcloud. Thats 3 resources to track with 5 possible decisions.That seems much more manageable.
hunters mark: you get as many as your PB. Regain 1 on a short rest and All on a long rest. You must hit on your weapon or unarmed attack to apply the mark. Choose damage type when mark is applied.
traps: changed to a tactic so that additional complexity no longer applies to base class and only to those who seek it out. Would also be made simple like the herbs, 5 total traps to choose from, only get 3 per long rest.
with traps being gone, the hunters tactics will be spread across the level 3, 7 and 11 Hunter Subclass features. Allowing you to select 1 out of 3 or 4 choices at each tactics improvement (basically how the old hunter class worked, and since I’m doing this quickly I haven’t worked out which tactics would be at which levels)
Relentless Hunter: Really this is 2 changes. One new ability, and an improvement to Hunters Mark. Improvement- can now mark 2 for price of 1 if within 10ft. Ability- can use BA to make 3rd attack (target must be marked).
Precise Hunter: 2/LR, if you hit a marked target you can choose to double your hunters mark damage. (Seems fair instead of a critical Hit, no longer dependent on trap)
Foe Slayer: 1/LR, ability stays the same. 4 attacks on 1 target, 2 additional as a bonus action if the first target is killed. 2nd target must also be marked.
i feel like this seems much more manageable. Overall, 3 Herbs from a choice of 5, Hunters Mark, 4 total Tactics, Traps (optional) 3 total from a choice of 5, Relentless Hunter = PB, Precise Hunter = 2/LR, Foe Slayer = 1/LR, all recharge on a long rest. That’s 7 total Features excluding the base ranger class features we haven’t mentioned all thread long. Thinking of Foe Slayer as 5th level spell, Precise Hunter as a 4th level spell, and Relentless Hunter as 3rd level spell, and herbs as 1st level spells, this seems equal in complexity to spellcasting with less choices maybe? Either way it’s definitely less that where I started which is great.
I also understand that the tactics interactions were written poorly, so I will try to explain what I meant for those below.
Tactics Interactions -
horde breaker: this interaction applies to the extra attack only. You would not be able to make a horde breaker attack if you used an action to do Foe Slayer multi attack on one target. You also would not be able to do a horde breaker attack if you use a bonus action to Relentless Hunter 3rd attack. If you use a horde breaker attack, you cannot then use bonus action for a relentless hunter attack.
Multi attack defense: does not require retconning. You gain the bonus on every subsequent attack after the first. Example: your is AC 15, a monster makes 3 attacks on you. First attack is a 16, that’s a hit. Second attack is a 17, that’s a miss because of your plus 4. Last attack is a 20, that’s a hit because 15+4 is 19.
Fire volley: Ranged weapons only.
flurry of strikes: Melee weapon only.
steel will: Track your singular use of it per rest, hopefully that’s not too hard. similar to indomitable or flash of genius.
Overall, I definitely appreciate you pointing out the complexity of it all, I think I got carried away when making it. The critiques have really helped me to trim the fat on this subclass. While we may disagree on the complexity of spellcasting, it is nice to have an outside perspective on it all.
Much simpler! And I like it much better.
For the Herbs it depends what you want to preference, another option could be a table of spells it replicates like the "bonus spells" that paladins get depending on their subclass, or like that list of spells Tasha's gave for free with Primal Awareness or whatever it was called, so you have some higher level spells that are accessed later at the cost of fewer options early on, or stick with just the low level ones that are easier to explain how they work in terms of herbs rather than as magic.
For Horde Breaker you could just specify it is only when you use the "Attack Action" that prevents it triggering on any BA attack, Reaction attack, or special actions like Foe Slayer which I think should cover your bases pretty well.
Precise Hunter feels a bit lame for 17th level, and Hunter's Mark damage scaling feels much to powerful, but the rest of it I really like now.
Okay good! Definitely seems like it’s on the right track now. I personally feel like Beast Master also fits into the “no magic all martial” archetype of ranger. But I think Gloomstalker and Feywanderer seem more likely to cast spells. Also side note, not really a fan of the Feywanderer subclass. I think something that’s more of a true mix between Druid and Ranger would be more appealing and makes more sense to me. Just an opinion though, lol.
I do like the idea of having subclass or “conclave” specific herbs. Maybe a choice of 2 level 1 Herbs for all rangers, then a level 1, 2, 3, 4 and 5 herb that is specific to each subclass? Herbs that replicate spells that thematically fit the subclass as well. For the Hunter this definitely makes sense. Could easily apply to Beast Master as well. And I like it.
Horde Breaker definitely needs cleaning up on the wording and this is great advice on how to do it.
Precise Hunter ability I also agree its not too cool for a level 17 ability. I was always a big fan of the steelwind strike spell, so maybe something more along those lines? Not an exact replication of it but something that feels as cool as this does. Something about that spell that just makes you feel badass.
The damage on Hunter’s mark does for sure need tuning. I will need to run some test battles with this new subclass at each tier to see how it feels. Would definitely be too strong with some magic items as well. I will get on this with a moment.
As far as the tactics go, do you think 3 or 4 options at each 3, 7, 11 and 15 would work better? I previously used the already made WOTC tactics, but wonder if some could be made to be more interesting.