I'm okay with the concept, but the implementation need work.
As it's written, a monk can pull out a telescope, look at an adult red dragon, have it make a DC17 INT save (+3), if it fails, repeat 2 more times with disadvantage, if it fails those 2, spend 3 ki points and 28 HP to make it repeat the same save (no disadvantage), if it fails, gain a sweet red dragon tattoo and new pet. Level 11 monk just solo'd a CR17 dragon from a mile away, in 1 turn, without using an action.
Seems like a long shot, but you would be surprised. Running the numbers, there is over a 50% chance of failing the 3 throws against seeds of doubt (if it succeeds once, need a short rest to try again), a 65% chance of failing the final save (need a long rest to try again), allowing only 2 short rests per day it has a 56.9% chance of working on a given day (32.5% chance of working in a single turn as described in example). Sorry went on a deep math tangent, I like math.
10 minutes of irrelevant math aside, you need to specify a range and type of action for all these abilities (recommend bonus for disadvantage, action to capture). You also need to limit the type of save to not be a choice (recommend WIS for disadvantage, CHA for capture).
For seeds of doubt, you should drop the CHA based AC, monks already have WIS based AC, so they will likely never use this. You may also want to have it cost 1 Ki to use and drop the limit per rest.
For sprout of deciet, (if you remove the seed limit) you can have it read that if a creature fails seeds of doubt 3 time since its last short or long rest, it has disadvantage until it's next short or long rest.
Plant of surrender is trickier to fix. If you are fond of the tattoo capture idea, you should definitely require the creature to be at or near 0 HP in addition to the save (either being when it dies as a reaction, or if it's HP is less than the amount you paid as an action). You may also want to limit it to creatures with a CR less than your monk level (woe to the DM whose party gets a pet ancient dragon or tarrasque). Last suggestion, is making the creature charmed by you and nonhostile instead of capturing it, only repeating the save after a long rest or if it takes damage from you or your allies.
(No, Those are all actions, as it's written. You killed it in 3 rounds, and, once it fails, if it's doing something different, like moving around lifting things with Athletics, or your wizard unleashes a fireball on his turn, no disadvantage.) (And the Dragon's bound to notice)
(No, Those are all actions, as it's written. You killed it in 3 rounds, and, once it fails, if it's doing something different, like moving around lifting things with Athletics, or your wizard unleashes a fireball on his turn, no disadvantage.) (And the Dragon's bound to notice)
But, good idea's! I will get to work on that.
It is not written anywhere that it takes an action. Just to be sure, I used ctrl-f to find "action" the one and only result was the bonus action you can use to summon whatever it was you killed in 6 seconds from a mile away.
To be honest, Plant of Surrender seems overly complicated and it relies on the previous two features heavily. Synergy between features is great, but if you have to use the 3rd and 6th level features to use it, it just feels bad.
It all seems one note that doesn't interact with the rest of the monk class at all. The idea of tricking your opponent's minds is a solid one, just the execution of features is missing for me.
Even so, why does a creature get to remake the saving throw based on this criteria:
If the creature's intelligence is less than your Charisma score plus your monk level at the time of using this ability, they may make this save again every long rest. If they succeed, you re take the damage and the creature disappears to wherever you used this ability on it. If the creature is under the effect of feeblemind, it's charisma/intelligence/wisdom score is 10, and it makes this save with advantage. The DC also changes to 11 if the creature is under the effect of feeblemind.
This seems like you want to intentionally break the feature right after using it. Why does the DC change instead of using your Ki save? It also doesn't thematically make sense to me, a less intelligent creature would be more inclined to believe your whispers of doubt than a more intelligent creature. There's also not a lot of description as to what you can do with the creature that you make a tattoo out of. You don't mention that it becomes an ally, or that you can give it commands, or that it is hostile, etc after summoning it. Wouldn't a creature forcibly subjugated then try to rebel when it's summoned? Also, why does it become a tattoo? That throws off the theme for me too.
Harvest of Success is predicated on controlling up to 6 creatures from this feature too, which I don't see anyone being able to do as you have to spend all your uses of Seed of Doubt on one creature, it has to fail all 3 saves, and then attempt another save, and continues to do so every long rest.
I first read this and then re-read it and then read it again and it starts out like an CIA spy operative infiltrating a forging government, which seems a bit roguish but I digress on that monks could work also. The issue I land with this it starts out seemly good then devolves into a Monster Hunter/ Pokemon can you catch them all. Maybe that is my mis understanding on the class and if so I apologize
Let me go through and just show you want I feel is wrong so please do not think me rude and I hope everything works for you
Seeds of Doubt
By 3rd level, your charisma is stronger than peoples attacks. Your AC can be 10+dexterity modifier+Charisma modifier, whichever's higher. Once per short rest, you may have a creature you see make a Charisma or Intelligence saving throw against your Ki save DC. On a failure, they gain disadvantage on their next attack, saving throw, or ability check.
So you are taking a Monk Class that gets Wisdom and throwing it away, feels like it is trying to pander to a particular favored race, maybe not just the first impression of feeling. While the theme of this subclass is Deception and Doubt something that tends to be a trait learned through Experience rather than emotions. So the Wisdom stat would still be a reasonable go to stat.
Why do they get to choose the stat in which to defend, I get it that in grapple checks they can choose acrobatics or Athletics, but you are asserting your will over your opponent causing them to doubt them self, i don't feel either Int or Cha fit this, this feels more like a Wisdom save.
Sprout of Deceit At 6th level, you may use your Seeds of Doubt 3 times per short rest. They must be against the same creature. If the creature fails all 3 saving throws, it has disadvantage on all ability checks, attacks, and saving throws for 1 hour.
This allows you to use your 3rd level ability more times great, and for a stand alone level six seems to fall short especially since there is nothing else adding to the subclass.
The issue is you can only use all three on the same target, problem is if the first succeeds then they belief the deception and doubt them-self, you can't really stack up on an affect more than once. ( now this is a homebrew which means if you as a DM rule it you can you can, although RAW and RAI don't suggest that). I don't feel there is any Ryhme or reason other than you wanted to extend the duration of of the initial ability. This is something I feel works great ( the duration) for that Spy/ CIA/ type character.
Plant of Surrender At 11th level, you may spend 3 ki points to target a creature that has currently failed all 3 saving throws for your Seeds of Doubt that you can see. It must make a Charisma, intelligence, or wisdom saving throw or be absorbed into you. The creature doesn't have disadvantage. The DC is your Ki save DC. Whether the creature fails or succeeds, you take damage equal to the creatures CR plus you Monk level. you may use this once per long rest. On a failure, the creature disappears and you gain a tattoo in the shape of the creature. You may use a bonus action to summon the creature or put it back in the tattoo. If you die, or use this on a different creature, the creature dies. If the creature's intelligence is less than your Charisma score plus your monk level at the time of using this ability, they may make this save again every long rest. If they succeed, you re take the damage and the creature disappears to wherever you used this ability on it. If the creature is under the effect of feeblemind, it's charisma/intelligence/wisdom score is 10, and it makes this save with advantage. The DC also changes to 11 if the creature is under the effect of feeblemind.
There is a lot to unpack here and a lot of confusion. Again you give a multitude of saves and it feels like you are picking the saves that most Creatures have a low stat in, when in fact how this ability reads it should be either a Wisdom save as they try to mentally fight against the effect or a reasonable but makes less sense Constitution save as they physcially fight against being absorbed.
The whole taking damage seems out of place here as there is no reason a Magical tattoo being branded on the skin should do that amount of damage, and to boot it deals the damage regardless it succeeds, so why is the damage happening what is causing it?
As the Admiral has stated it seems you are backwards on your Intelligence higher lower thing, it should be reversed from how you wrote it. for more in depth explanation look to the admirals post
Again your using Charisma when the feel of the ability is your Wisdom, but this is minor sense of feel it really doesn't matter in the end if you want a charisma monk it is all you.
You put a Once per a long rest for capturing a creature but you can only have one creature at a time, this is limiting enough, not seeing the purpose of a long rest.
Harvest of Success At 17th level, you know how to properly harvest the seeds of doubt. You may have up to 6 creatures under your control by Plant of Surrender. They otherwise follow the same rules as they would normally.
You made a Capstone ability for a subclass a buff to a lower ability? I mean there are some bad Capstones that have been created and yours here isn't quite that bad but it defiantly falls short. I am not even sure I like it to be honest, but it seems lack luster
You went from I create mass deceit in my foes to make them mess up there concentration and focus to capturing creatures. Thematically none of this subclass lines up with each other, mechanically the class is built to all work with every ability with each other, for what purpose?? It starts off with a small exposition about the class
"The monks that follow the Way of the Mind, while trained to fight, are also trained in planting seeds of doubt in other creatures minds. They are Excellent at conversing, and tricking their enemies to 'switch sides'. Many monks see these monks as evil, but these monks just do what they think is the only way."
Make them seem like infiltrators and spies, then you get to level 11 and now your doing something else, but it all works together. I guess you can create a subclass that works mechanically; which as I pointed out has some flaws in and of it self, but it has nothing else no interest to want to pick it up, no understanding of its place in a campaign. Is he James bond the silver tongued devil or Ash Ketchum of pallet town with the prowess of Aang?
I think there is a lot that needs to be explained as to why you decided to go certain ways and your thought process on your formula for plant of surrender. In the end if you want to make a charisma monk and what not go for it just doesn't seem to fit what your pushing for the theme is all.
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https://www.dndbeyond.com/characters/subclasses/87824-way-of-the-mind
Is it good? Feedback? Is it overpowered? Underpowered? Needs editing?
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
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It's a dead link. Have you shared it with the community/published it yet?
I have. Give me a second.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
Try it now.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
I'm okay with the concept, but the implementation need work.
As it's written, a monk can pull out a telescope, look at an adult red dragon, have it make a DC17 INT save (+3), if it fails, repeat 2 more times with disadvantage, if it fails those 2, spend 3 ki points and 28 HP to make it repeat the same save (no disadvantage), if it fails, gain a sweet red dragon tattoo and new pet. Level 11 monk just solo'd a CR17 dragon from a mile away, in 1 turn, without using an action.
Seems like a long shot, but you would be surprised. Running the numbers, there is over a 50% chance of failing the 3 throws against seeds of doubt (if it succeeds once, need a short rest to try again), a 65% chance of failing the final save (need a long rest to try again), allowing only 2 short rests per day it has a 56.9% chance of working on a given day (32.5% chance of working in a single turn as described in example). Sorry went on a deep math tangent, I like math.
10 minutes of irrelevant math aside, you need to specify a range and type of action for all these abilities (recommend bonus for disadvantage, action to capture). You also need to limit the type of save to not be a choice (recommend WIS for disadvantage, CHA for capture).
For seeds of doubt, you should drop the CHA based AC, monks already have WIS based AC, so they will likely never use this. You may also want to have it cost 1 Ki to use and drop the limit per rest.
For sprout of deciet, (if you remove the seed limit) you can have it read that if a creature fails seeds of doubt 3 time since its last short or long rest, it has disadvantage until it's next short or long rest.
Plant of surrender is trickier to fix. If you are fond of the tattoo capture idea, you should definitely require the creature to be at or near 0 HP in addition to the save (either being when it dies as a reaction, or if it's HP is less than the amount you paid as an action). You may also want to limit it to creatures with a CR less than your monk level (woe to the DM whose party gets a pet ancient dragon or tarrasque). Last suggestion, is making the creature charmed by you and nonhostile instead of capturing it, only repeating the save after a long rest or if it takes damage from you or your allies.
(No, Those are all actions, as it's written. You killed it in 3 rounds, and, once it fails, if it's doing something different, like moving around lifting things with Athletics, or your wizard unleashes a fireball on his turn, no disadvantage.)
(And the Dragon's bound to notice)
But, good idea's! I will get to work on that.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
It is not written anywhere that it takes an action. Just to be sure, I used ctrl-f to find "action" the one and only result was the bonus action you can use to summon whatever it was you killed in 6 seconds from a mile away.
Hm. I forgot to put action. I could've sworn I did that. Ok, i'll add that too.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
I'm just unclear on one part. It says in the text of Plant of Surrender that 'If they succeed, you re take the damage'
What damage? Is this something I missed?
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Check out my Expanded Signature
Creature CR + monk level.
To be honest, Plant of Surrender seems overly complicated and it relies on the previous two features heavily. Synergy between features is great, but if you have to use the 3rd and 6th level features to use it, it just feels bad.
It all seems one note that doesn't interact with the rest of the monk class at all. The idea of tricking your opponent's minds is a solid one, just the execution of features is missing for me.
AdmiralChry's Homebrew Compendium - A collection of all my classes, subclasses, magic items, and etc.
Well, at level 11 you can get a pet Dragon if it's VERY unlucky. So, it has to rely on its other features to be nerfed.
Extended Signature! Yay! https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/off-topic/adohands-kitchen/3153-extended-signature-thread?page=2#c21
Haven’t used this account in forever. Still a big fan of crawling claws.
Even so, why does a creature get to remake the saving throw based on this criteria:
If the creature's intelligence is less than your Charisma score plus your monk level at the time of using this ability, they may make this save again every long rest. If they succeed, you re take the damage and the creature disappears to wherever you used this ability on it. If the creature is under the effect of feeblemind, it's charisma/intelligence/wisdom score is 10, and it makes this save with advantage. The DC also changes to 11 if the creature is under the effect of feeblemind.
This seems like you want to intentionally break the feature right after using it. Why does the DC change instead of using your Ki save? It also doesn't thematically make sense to me, a less intelligent creature would be more inclined to believe your whispers of doubt than a more intelligent creature. There's also not a lot of description as to what you can do with the creature that you make a tattoo out of. You don't mention that it becomes an ally, or that you can give it commands, or that it is hostile, etc after summoning it. Wouldn't a creature forcibly subjugated then try to rebel when it's summoned? Also, why does it become a tattoo? That throws off the theme for me too.
Harvest of Success is predicated on controlling up to 6 creatures from this feature too, which I don't see anyone being able to do as you have to spend all your uses of Seed of Doubt on one creature, it has to fail all 3 saves, and then attempt another save, and continues to do so every long rest.
AdmiralChry's Homebrew Compendium - A collection of all my classes, subclasses, magic items, and etc.
I first read this and then re-read it and then read it again and it starts out like an CIA spy operative infiltrating a forging government, which seems a bit roguish but I digress on that monks could work also. The issue I land with this it starts out seemly good then devolves into a Monster Hunter/ Pokemon can you catch them all. Maybe that is my mis understanding on the class and if so I apologize
Let me go through and just show you want I feel is wrong so please do not think me rude and I hope everything works for you
Seeds of Doubt
By 3rd level, your charisma is stronger than peoples attacks. Your AC can be 10+dexterity modifier+Charisma modifier, whichever's higher. Once per short rest, you may have a creature you see make a Charisma or Intelligence saving throw against your Ki save DC. On a failure, they gain disadvantage on their next attack, saving throw, or ability check.
At 6th level, you may use your Seeds of Doubt 3 times per short rest. They must be against the same creature. If the creature fails all 3 saving throws, it has disadvantage on all ability checks, attacks, and saving throws for 1 hour.
At 11th level, you may spend 3 ki points to target a creature that has currently failed all 3 saving throws for your Seeds of Doubt that you can see. It must make a Charisma, intelligence, or wisdom saving throw or be absorbed into you. The creature doesn't have disadvantage. The DC is your Ki save DC. Whether the creature fails or succeeds, you take damage equal to the creatures CR plus you Monk level. you may use this once per long rest. On a failure, the creature disappears and you gain a tattoo in the shape of the creature. You may use a bonus action to summon the creature or put it back in the tattoo. If you die, or use this on a different creature, the creature dies. If the creature's intelligence is less than your Charisma score plus your monk level at the time of using this ability, they may make this save again every long rest. If they succeed, you re take the damage and the creature disappears to wherever you used this ability on it. If the creature is under the effect of feeblemind, it's charisma/intelligence/wisdom score is 10, and it makes this save with advantage. The DC also changes to 11 if the creature is under the effect of feeblemind.
At 17th level, you know how to properly harvest the seeds of doubt. You may have up to 6 creatures under your control by Plant of Surrender. They otherwise follow the same rules as they would normally.
"The monks that follow the Way of the Mind, while trained to fight, are also trained in planting seeds of doubt in other creatures minds. They are Excellent at conversing, and tricking their enemies to 'switch sides'. Many monks see these monks as evil, but these monks just do what they think is the only way."
Make them seem like infiltrators and spies, then you get to level 11 and now your doing something else, but it all works together. I guess you can create a subclass that works mechanically; which as I pointed out has some flaws in and of it self, but it has nothing else no interest to want to pick it up, no understanding of its place in a campaign. Is he James bond the silver tongued devil or Ash Ketchum of pallet town with the prowess of Aang?
I think there is a lot that needs to be explained as to why you decided to go certain ways and your thought process on your formula for plant of surrender. In the end if you want to make a charisma monk and what not go for it just doesn't seem to fit what your pushing for the theme is all.