Prepare for a short novel, as this topic has been eating at me. I hope some of you may help shed light on this for me.
To start off, our group is a bit rag-tag right now. Overall, most of us have been playing for about 5-6 years, however we have some new guys, and our Godfather DM - who has been playing for 17+ years. (Im turning here, cause our GDM is unavilable right now due to work.)
We took about a year break from playing any D&D due to work and other variables. However, one guy decided to buy the things for 5e and run a by-the-book 5e campaign. He's relatively new to DMing, but has a lot of potential - he just gets frustrated easily, which has caused him to start two campaigns previously and never get past the first session. This go around, we're about 5 sessions in, though.
Even though its by-the-book (as in, he bought a campaign book), he said we can add our own elements and homebrew some stuff. Alright, cool.
Well, i rolled a warrior to switch things up (as i usually play a rogue or a caster). My warriors name is Chaz, and he's a bit of a loner whos only motivation is physical improvement. Luck of the draw, the rest of the party are rogues and charisma types (we don't do party roles very well). So, Chaz doesn't really have anything in common with the other PC's.
My DM approached me and told me Chaz has to form a bond with the other PC's. Alright, cool. But i take my RP pretty seriously, and hate to break character - unless i absolutely have to. Now, ive grown to love Chaz - as have the other players. Hes got a foul mouth, doesn't put up with any BS, and is always ready for a brawl. It makes for fun sessions. My DM asked me to find a way to have Chaz bond with the party. So, i talked to him about this item that Chaz could get that would be at a great sacrifice to himself, and through that sacrifice, he would bond with the PC's for helping him get through his trials and near death experience.
DM cleared it, at first, but later redacted that and wants me to come up with something else that isnt as "imposing". Which i can understand to a degree, i mean he is the DM, and its his campaign. But this is literally the only thing i can think of to ensure Chaz bonds with the party.
At the same time, the DM doesnt want me to roll a new character, won't let me impose a segment to change Chaz's character, and also wants Chaz to soften up and bond with the party.
Short of just pushing this item and the events that come with it, i dont see an alternative. Ive even talked to my friends to meta-game and create a bonding moment with Chaz - but we all take our RP seriously - and nothing really works out.
What can i do? Push the significance of this item and events? Let Chaz die (dont really want to)? Bastardize Chaz's character, and soften him up (id rather him die. Lol)?
TL;DR:
Luck of the draw, i rolled a warrior character that doesnt get along with the rest of the party because their interests are too widely different. DM wants my warrior to bond with party, but i dont want to break RP. DM denied me a moment for my warrior to bond with the party, because its too imposing. Still wants me to bond with the party. What do i do? Push for the imposing moment? Let my warrior die? Or break RP for my warrior (and essentially rewrite his whole character)?
Any advice or thoughts is appreciated, as this has been gnawing at me. Im also trying to not be a problem child and frustrate our DM to the point he gives up on the campaign.
I think that signs point to 'yes', you're being a bit too hard on your DM. You don't seem to be doing it in a mean or intended way, though-- I think you might just be very caught up in trying to Play Your Character that you've forgotten you have to make some compromises sometimes for the Sake of The Game. Here's why I think that.
You made a character that's a loner in a social and team game. It is not really the DM's job to create a reason for you to tie yourself to the party -- especially not a new DM. More experienced DMs may take it upon themselves to cleverly weave every party member together based on their backstory, but you've said this is a new DM. His campaigns have been non-starters, and he finally has a pace struck. They need your help as one of their players to keep that momentum moving. They provide the adventures, and you and the other players provide characters who care about the adventure and who are going to be a team. "That's what my character would do" is not a good fallback argument, because in the end you're playing a game with other people, and you have the power to control what your character does. Loner characters are for video games, novels, and movies-- They aren't for a social, team adventure game, unless you know how to play a loner who still has a 'bond' to the party and wants to be there. Basically: Find a reason to play. Whatever you say your character does, is what your character would do.
That said-- I don't think we have the full picture here. Is there a reason your DM wants you to bond with the party? Are you not RPing with them? You do make it sound like you are RPing with the world, with your bar brawls and competitive nature, which is great-- But does that lead to interactions with your fellow party members? Or, are you going against group decisions often? When the party decides to go to the Wizard and you want to go to the Mayor after discussing the options, are you driven to split off on your own, instead of going where the party is? Or are you just a 'loner' in character, but you still play with the group when push comes to shove to keep the party together and story going forward?
If the latter, then I think you just need to chat with your DM and let them know that you as a player have a bond to the party, and thus the character will always stick with the party-- whether or not 'in roleplay' they butt heads. Let them know that you will find reasons for your loner to work with and keep moving forward with the party, and hopefully give them some confidence with you so they stop worrying about conflict or splitting parties. A party I'm currently in I play a character who is very orders-driven and combative-- my character often disagrees with the party, and we RP it out for the interest of tension, but in the end I always find a reason for my character to defer to what the group as a majority decides, because that keeps the game moving and the party together. So either I have convinced them, and we do my plan, or I have not convinced them and my character goes with the majority.
If its the former, I think you need to remember that the story is ultimately about the party-- not individual members of it. So whether you maintain your loner bad-assness or not, it is your job as a player to find a reason (without the DM providing you with an item or magical reason) to go with the party's majority decisions after any disagreements have been made and argued, and to move forward with the story-- especially because this is a new DM and they're running a book adventure. Cut them some slack and play with them and the team, not against them. Like I said earlier though-- Your post doesn't come across as you trying to play against them, I think you're just really set in playing the character you love, and you have become faced with an RP challenge to overcome.
If the last couple paragraphs have been out of left field because your situation is incredibly different, please please do tell us. I would be interested to hear how the interactions have gone this far and where you think the DM may be struggling with the interparty differences.
Totally. You're 100% right in one aspect in particular - it is a RP issue. I have really come to love this character, and spent a lot of time writing their backstory and personality - down to bodily measurements, body fat index, and the like.
Just to clarify, Chaz isn't necessarily a 'loner', so much as independent. He can handle his own problems - as long as they are physical. He gets into a lot of trouble via spoken word, because he doesnt hold his tongue. However, he doesnt create direct conflict with the party or anything. He's always went were the DM has led them, and never protested progressing the story.
The issue that has risen up is - hes the only member of the party not motivated by material gain. He's seeking personal betterment and purpose. He's currently involved with an NPC that leads a military faction. He doesn't necessarily need the party to further his goals, and the party doesn't really need him to further their goals.
An accidental conflict arised, simply by the other characters having similar goals - and Chaz having his own. So far, the party and Chaz have been great. Everyone loves his character and so do I. But, the DM and I both worry that Chaz will slowly stray from the party unless the party bonds with Chaz - because it makes sense from the stories aspect.
Im not against rolling a new character that is more inline with the parties interests - but the DM really wants me to make Chaz work, without breaking character. Short of an intervention from the DM, i dont know how I'm supposed to do that at this point.
Also, to note: Ive been playing and DMing for about 5 years or so, and my DM has been playing for 5 years - but just got into DMing. All the other PC's are new to the game.
Upon further assessment, i fear ive made Chaz too dynamic and incompatible with the other PC's.
Loner, independent-- They both lead to the same problems when it comes down to a team game like D&D. The #1 thing every character should have is a reason to adventure, and a desire or reason to work within a party structure.
But let's say it this way: You don't have to fear Chaz drifting away from the party, because you control Chaz. You decide what draws him to the party or keeps him there.
So you get to decide: Create a motivation within Chaz, your character, to stay with the party; or have Chaz leave the party and make a new character. That's not something for you DM to solve-- the ball is firmly in your court as the player of that character. I would personally recommend devising a reason for Chaz to stay, as both you and the party and the DM all seem to enjoy him-- There is no reason for you to cut Chaz out for "that's what my character would do" reasons. You have full control of what your character would do, you get to decide, not the character.
But if doing that would make you not like the character anymore, then perhaps Chaz goes off into the sunset to follow his bliss on his own journey, and a new face comes to join the party that wants to stick with them.
In the end, the decision has to be your's to make, and solution your's to create.
A suit of armor, legend to have been crafted by Dwarfs for the legendary Barbadian, Hunding.
The armor, however, is ensouled with Hunding, and the wearer must endure a trial of combat, then undergo a dangerous alchemical procedure to amputate a limb and replace said limb with a mechanical prosthetic that was made using the remains of Hunding's body.
The experience is intended to humble him by defeat in combat, bond him to the party for saving his life, as well as help him progress his goal of bettering his capabilities.
His brute force and wit have always pulled through for him - however he's going to find himself deep over his head, and for once, realize his life is in someone else's hands.
What are the stats? I'm asking because it could be that the DM doesn't want to deviate from the module, and doesn't want to gift out a high power item for just one of the players for RP reasons. Even if it is just a flavorful set of regular armor, going that much off-script might be too much if he is new. His being new might also be why he initially said yes to it, then changed his mind after getting a grasp on the impact it would have. He is most likely looking for a non-item/non-quest based way to bond the group together that doesn't have to deviate from the module, which is understandable if he's getting his "DM legs" under him.
Standard half-plate stats, with the ability to use barbarians rage, at the cost of 1d6 damage per turn.
The whole idea behind the armor came about because our party has no combat capability outside of Chaz. Everyone else is playing charisma characters. Lol.
Doesn't seem too OP at first glance, but there's too many variables left out to really say what I would do in his or your shoes. "Ability to use barbarians rage"... does this mean you are a barbarian? Do you get the half plate AC + DEX + CON to AC and half damage with it? That's extremely OP, especially at lower levels. Or by warrior do you mean fighter that gets barbarian rage with this armor? Also, you say others are rogue and charisma based. Bards, warlocks, paladins, and rogues are a decent party mix. Not trying to poke holes or anything, just trying to get the info I would use if I were in your DM's shoes.
I'll end by saying that it sounds like he is just asking for you to find a way for Chaz to bond with the group that doesn't involve the armor or the quest to get it. In real life, people meet, become friends and stick together for years. Could be just as simple as that. If the DM is looking for something more I would ask for specifics and work from there.
Roleplaying is my favorite part of the game. But, having said that, I also know that it is a game. In order for everybody to have the most fun, you have to be willing to suspend disbelief a bit. This is especially important when it comes to the party - it's basically always better for the game when the party has a good dynamic, something that bonds them. It doesn't matter how much of a loner a character might be; they should be able to call their party friends. Even if that goes against character - I find it (as does everybody else I know) more fun, even if it slightly doesnt make sense, to have the party be more cohesive.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Simply put Chaz, who is independent and physically capable of handling himself, has been hanging around with a charismatic bunch of scoundrels... and he's come to like them. While he's driven and capable of pursuing his goals on his own he finds himself reluctant to leave the group and return to the lone wolf lifestyle.
If Chaz is surrounded by so many charismatic types it wouldn't be totally off character for him to find himself liking them (and their aims) more and more. Maybe there could be a session that is off book, where Chaz and the rest of the party find a reason to actually need each other? Make Chaz rely on more than just his fighting skills to save the other party members and vice versa, give them a reason to bond. Give Chaz a weakness that is exploited by some BBEG and make him realise he needs these charming flesh bags around and by them riding in to save his ass, make him realise (apologies for the cheesy shit) "The power of friendship" lol
I bet you you could do something like this, so heres how it goes; Chaz, after a while takes a liking to his team, still having independant and cocky characteristics, chaz stays like the sasuke, of the squad, always swooping in at the last second to save him, and he has the troph like "whats the matter? STiLL nOt StROnG EnOUgH?!?!?
this is what id do, if u want just do your own thing m8!
Prepare for a short novel, as this topic has been eating at me. I hope some of you may help shed light on this for me.
To start off, our group is a bit rag-tag right now. Overall, most of us have been playing for about 5-6 years, however we have some new guys, and our Godfather DM - who has been playing for 17+ years. (Im turning here, cause our GDM is unavilable right now due to work.)
We took about a year break from playing any D&D due to work and other variables. However, one guy decided to buy the things for 5e and run a by-the-book 5e campaign. He's relatively new to DMing, but has a lot of potential - he just gets frustrated easily, which has caused him to start two campaigns previously and never get past the first session. This go around, we're about 5 sessions in, though.
Even though its by-the-book (as in, he bought a campaign book), he said we can add our own elements and homebrew some stuff. Alright, cool.
Well, i rolled a warrior to switch things up (as i usually play a rogue or a caster). My warriors name is Chaz, and he's a bit of a loner whos only motivation is physical improvement. Luck of the draw, the rest of the party are rogues and charisma types (we don't do party roles very well). So, Chaz doesn't really have anything in common with the other PC's.
My DM approached me and told me Chaz has to form a bond with the other PC's. Alright, cool. But i take my RP pretty seriously, and hate to break character - unless i absolutely have to. Now, ive grown to love Chaz - as have the other players. Hes got a foul mouth, doesn't put up with any BS, and is always ready for a brawl. It makes for fun sessions. My DM asked me to find a way to have Chaz bond with the party. So, i talked to him about this item that Chaz could get that would be at a great sacrifice to himself, and through that sacrifice, he would bond with the PC's for helping him get through his trials and near death experience.
DM cleared it, at first, but later redacted that and wants me to come up with something else that isnt as "imposing". Which i can understand to a degree, i mean he is the DM, and its his campaign. But this is literally the only thing i can think of to ensure Chaz bonds with the party.
At the same time, the DM doesnt want me to roll a new character, won't let me impose a segment to change Chaz's character, and also wants Chaz to soften up and bond with the party.
Short of just pushing this item and the events that come with it, i dont see an alternative. Ive even talked to my friends to meta-game and create a bonding moment with Chaz - but we all take our RP seriously - and nothing really works out.
What can i do? Push the significance of this item and events? Let Chaz die (dont really want to)? Bastardize Chaz's character, and soften him up (id rather him die. Lol)?
TL;DR:
Luck of the draw, i rolled a warrior character that doesnt get along with the rest of the party because their interests are too widely different. DM wants my warrior to bond with party, but i dont want to break RP. DM denied me a moment for my warrior to bond with the party, because its too imposing. Still wants me to bond with the party. What do i do? Push for the imposing moment? Let my warrior die? Or break RP for my warrior (and essentially rewrite his whole character)?
Any advice or thoughts is appreciated, as this has been gnawing at me. Im also trying to not be a problem child and frustrate our DM to the point he gives up on the campaign.
What do..?
I think that signs point to 'yes', you're being a bit too hard on your DM. You don't seem to be doing it in a mean or intended way, though-- I think you might just be very caught up in trying to Play Your Character that you've forgotten you have to make some compromises sometimes for the Sake of The Game. Here's why I think that.
You made a character that's a loner in a social and team game. It is not really the DM's job to create a reason for you to tie yourself to the party -- especially not a new DM. More experienced DMs may take it upon themselves to cleverly weave every party member together based on their backstory, but you've said this is a new DM. His campaigns have been non-starters, and he finally has a pace struck. They need your help as one of their players to keep that momentum moving. They provide the adventures, and you and the other players provide characters who care about the adventure and who are going to be a team. "That's what my character would do" is not a good fallback argument, because in the end you're playing a game with other people, and you have the power to control what your character does. Loner characters are for video games, novels, and movies-- They aren't for a social, team adventure game, unless you know how to play a loner who still has a 'bond' to the party and wants to be there. Basically: Find a reason to play. Whatever you say your character does, is what your character would do.
That said-- I don't think we have the full picture here. Is there a reason your DM wants you to bond with the party? Are you not RPing with them? You do make it sound like you are RPing with the world, with your bar brawls and competitive nature, which is great-- But does that lead to interactions with your fellow party members? Or, are you going against group decisions often? When the party decides to go to the Wizard and you want to go to the Mayor after discussing the options, are you driven to split off on your own, instead of going where the party is? Or are you just a 'loner' in character, but you still play with the group when push comes to shove to keep the party together and story going forward?
If the latter, then I think you just need to chat with your DM and let them know that you as a player have a bond to the party, and thus the character will always stick with the party-- whether or not 'in roleplay' they butt heads. Let them know that you will find reasons for your loner to work with and keep moving forward with the party, and hopefully give them some confidence with you so they stop worrying about conflict or splitting parties. A party I'm currently in I play a character who is very orders-driven and combative-- my character often disagrees with the party, and we RP it out for the interest of tension, but in the end I always find a reason for my character to defer to what the group as a majority decides, because that keeps the game moving and the party together. So either I have convinced them, and we do my plan, or I have not convinced them and my character goes with the majority.
If its the former, I think you need to remember that the story is ultimately about the party-- not individual members of it. So whether you maintain your loner bad-assness or not, it is your job as a player to find a reason (without the DM providing you with an item or magical reason) to go with the party's majority decisions after any disagreements have been made and argued, and to move forward with the story-- especially because this is a new DM and they're running a book adventure. Cut them some slack and play with them and the team, not against them. Like I said earlier though-- Your post doesn't come across as you trying to play against them, I think you're just really set in playing the character you love, and you have become faced with an RP challenge to overcome.
If the last couple paragraphs have been out of left field because your situation is incredibly different, please please do tell us. I would be interested to hear how the interactions have gone this far and where you think the DM may be struggling with the interparty differences.
Well said Mellie, couldn't agree more.
Totally. You're 100% right in one aspect in particular - it is a RP issue. I have really come to love this character, and spent a lot of time writing their backstory and personality - down to bodily measurements, body fat index, and the like.
Just to clarify, Chaz isn't necessarily a 'loner', so much as independent. He can handle his own problems - as long as they are physical. He gets into a lot of trouble via spoken word, because he doesnt hold his tongue. However, he doesnt create direct conflict with the party or anything. He's always went were the DM has led them, and never protested progressing the story.
The issue that has risen up is - hes the only member of the party not motivated by material gain. He's seeking personal betterment and purpose. He's currently involved with an NPC that leads a military faction. He doesn't necessarily need the party to further his goals, and the party doesn't really need him to further their goals.
An accidental conflict arised, simply by the other characters having similar goals - and Chaz having his own. So far, the party and Chaz have been great. Everyone loves his character and so do I. But, the DM and I both worry that Chaz will slowly stray from the party unless the party bonds with Chaz - because it makes sense from the stories aspect.
Im not against rolling a new character that is more inline with the parties interests - but the DM really wants me to make Chaz work, without breaking character. Short of an intervention from the DM, i dont know how I'm supposed to do that at this point.
Also, to note: Ive been playing and DMing for about 5 years or so, and my DM has been playing for 5 years - but just got into DMing. All the other PC's are new to the game.
Upon further assessment, i fear ive made Chaz too dynamic and incompatible with the other PC's.
Loner, independent-- They both lead to the same problems when it comes down to a team game like D&D. The #1 thing every character should have is a reason to adventure, and a desire or reason to work within a party structure.
But let's say it this way: You don't have to fear Chaz drifting away from the party, because you control Chaz. You decide what draws him to the party or keeps him there.
So you get to decide: Create a motivation within Chaz, your character, to stay with the party; or have Chaz leave the party and make a new character. That's not something for you DM to solve-- the ball is firmly in your court as the player of that character. I would personally recommend devising a reason for Chaz to stay, as both you and the party and the DM all seem to enjoy him-- There is no reason for you to cut Chaz out for "that's what my character would do" reasons. You have full control of what your character would do, you get to decide, not the character.
But if doing that would make you not like the character anymore, then perhaps Chaz goes off into the sunset to follow his bliss on his own journey, and a new face comes to join the party that wants to stick with them.
In the end, the decision has to be your's to make, and solution your's to create.
Out of curiosity, what is the item Chaz is trying to get and what is the plan/sacrifice to get it?
A suit of armor, legend to have been crafted by Dwarfs for the legendary Barbadian, Hunding.
The armor, however, is ensouled with Hunding, and the wearer must endure a trial of combat, then undergo a dangerous alchemical procedure to amputate a limb and replace said limb with a mechanical prosthetic that was made using the remains of Hunding's body.
The experience is intended to humble him by defeat in combat, bond him to the party for saving his life, as well as help him progress his goal of bettering his capabilities.
His brute force and wit have always pulled through for him - however he's going to find himself deep over his head, and for once, realize his life is in someone else's hands.
What are the stats? I'm asking because it could be that the DM doesn't want to deviate from the module, and doesn't want to gift out a high power item for just one of the players for RP reasons. Even if it is just a flavorful set of regular armor, going that much off-script might be too much if he is new. His being new might also be why he initially said yes to it, then changed his mind after getting a grasp on the impact it would have. He is most likely looking for a non-item/non-quest based way to bond the group together that doesn't have to deviate from the module, which is understandable if he's getting his "DM legs" under him.
Standard half-plate stats, with the ability to use barbarians rage, at the cost of 1d6 damage per turn.
The whole idea behind the armor came about because our party has no combat capability outside of Chaz. Everyone else is playing charisma characters. Lol.
Doesn't seem too OP at first glance, but there's too many variables left out to really say what I would do in his or your shoes. "Ability to use barbarians rage"... does this mean you are a barbarian? Do you get the half plate AC + DEX + CON to AC and half damage with it? That's extremely OP, especially at lower levels. Or by warrior do you mean fighter that gets barbarian rage with this armor? Also, you say others are rogue and charisma based. Bards, warlocks, paladins, and rogues are a decent party mix. Not trying to poke holes or anything, just trying to get the info I would use if I were in your DM's shoes.
I'll end by saying that it sounds like he is just asking for you to find a way for Chaz to bond with the group that doesn't involve the armor or the quest to get it. In real life, people meet, become friends and stick together for years. Could be just as simple as that. If the DM is looking for something more I would ask for specifics and work from there.
Roleplaying is my favorite part of the game. But, having said that, I also know that it is a game. In order for everybody to have the most fun, you have to be willing to suspend disbelief a bit. This is especially important when it comes to the party - it's basically always better for the game when the party has a good dynamic, something that bonds them. It doesn't matter how much of a loner a character might be; they should be able to call their party friends. Even if that goes against character - I find it (as does everybody else I know) more fun, even if it slightly doesnt make sense, to have the party be more cohesive.
I know what you're thinking: "In that flurry of blows, did he use all his ki points, or save one?" Well, are ya feeling lucky, punk?
Does it have to be so dramatic?
Simply put Chaz, who is independent and physically capable of handling himself, has been hanging around with a charismatic bunch of scoundrels... and he's come to like them. While he's driven and capable of pursuing his goals on his own he finds himself reluctant to leave the group and return to the lone wolf lifestyle.
If Chaz is surrounded by so many charismatic types it wouldn't be totally off character for him to find himself liking them (and their aims) more and more. Maybe there could be a session that is off book, where Chaz and the rest of the party find a reason to actually need each other? Make Chaz rely on more than just his fighting skills to save the other party members and vice versa, give them a reason to bond. Give Chaz a weakness that is exploited by some BBEG and make him realise he needs these charming flesh bags around and by them riding in to save his ass, make him realise (apologies for the cheesy shit) "The power of friendship" lol
From Within Chaos Comes Order!
I bet you you could do something like this, so heres how it goes; Chaz, after a while takes a liking to his team, still having independant and cocky characteristics, chaz stays like the sasuke, of the squad, always swooping in at the last second to save him, and he has the troph like "whats the matter? STiLL nOt StROnG EnOUgH?!?!?
this is what id do, if u want just do your own thing m8!