I don't remember if I shared this in one of its temp incarnations but provided there is no consensus on anything wrong with it, this is my final version. So thoughts?
This is a ranged shocking grasp that doesn't get advantage against creatures wearing metal armour. It's stronger than any comparable damage dealing cantrip.
Costing a creature its reaction is probably too powerful for a ranged spell attack. Ask yourself this: would you ever cast a fire bolt or ray of frost against a target that was within the 60 foot range (most combats happen within 60 foot range).
The Firebolt has the benefits of longer range and higher damage than the Ray of Frost, but doesn't slow the target.
Costing a creature its reaction is better than the range and better than the slowing effect. At higher levels, this can prevent opportunity attacks from creatures that hit for 26 (5d12), like a bullette, or even more. It also enables one caster to prevent counterspell or shieldby enemy spell casters, giving it offensive powers (Shocking Grasp is largely defensive). It becomes the most effective anti-caster tool in the game.
A good question is: would this cantrip still see major use even if it dealt zero damage? Make a ranged attack roll, if you succeed the target has no reaction. My guess is that it would still be cast regularly.
shocking grasp is limited by needing touch. I'd suggest that you reduce the damage on this spell to 1d4, or perhaps remove the damage component altogether.
Remember two things with Homebrew:
1: The bad guys can use it too. Will your players enjoy losing reactions this way? 2: You can always start it weak (let's say 1d4 damage) and power it up and the players will be happy. You can't nerf the damage and have happy players. As soon as you nerf something, it will never feel the same again and players stop using it altogether, even if it's still effective - so start low and work up.
what do you suggest? Stripping the rider, bumping the damage to a d10 and making is a fire bolt clone? Any cantrip with a damage of d4, to me, isn't worth taking. If AOE was more appropriate for cantrips I'd have made it a 30 foot range, a d6 damage and of an AOE of a line.
Sorry, my last reply may have come across hostile, not my intent. Im legit looking for ideas for a good well balanced and useful lightning damage, preferably attack, cantrip.
what do you suggest? Stripping the rider, bumping the damage to a d10 and making is a fire bolt clone? Any cantrip with a damage of d4, to me, isn't worth taking. If AOE was more appropriate for cantrips I'd have made it a 30 foot range, a d6 damage and of an AOE of a line.
What about Vicious Mockery? 1d4 damage and disadvantage on the next attack, regularly used.
What's your goal with this spell? I'd assumed that the remove-reaction part was the most important part. Giving advantage against armoured enemies is largely the same as giving a +5 bonus to the attack roll, statistically, which makes it the strongest damage cantrip in the game. The difference in damage between 1d10 damage and 1d8 damage is 5.5 compared to 4.5.
Looking at other damaging cantrips:
Fire bolt 1d10 Damage - long range - no other effects
Eldritch Blast 1 d10 Damage - long range - no other effects - warlocks only
Ray of Frost 1d8 Damage - medium range - minor effect
Sacred Flame 1d8 Damage - medium range - dexterity save - given to clerics who aren't really blasters
Frostbite 1d6 Damage - medium range - minor effect - con save
Vicious Mockery 1d4 Damage - medium range - minor effect, but given to Bards who aren't really blasters
The more classes cantrips are limited to, the more bang you get for your buck
1d10 damage means no other effects without spending additional class features
1d8 damage or 1d6 damage gets medium range and a minor effect
5ft range gets powerful secondary effects
For some alternative, less powerful or situational effects you could give to a lightning based damage cantrip:
If the target must make a Concertation Saving Throw after taking damage from the spell, they make it with disadvantage
Deals 1d6 damage, but if you hit you can make an additional attack roll against a target within 5 feet, dealing 1d4 damage on a hit as the lightning jumps
Advantage on the attack roll against targets that are partially or fully immersed in water
If the goal is just to make it deal a bunch of damage, then just have it deal 2d4 damage (2-8 rather than 1-8 on a d8) and give it 120ft range. More creatures have fire resistance than lightning, so it already has an advantage there.
What im hoping to do is to create a decent spell attack lightning cantrip that has a useful, balanced, thematic, "minor effect" rider and preferably does a d8 damage with a minimum range of 30 feet and a preferable range of 60 feet. Now... I didnt think of the reaction nerf having such a huge effect on other spell casters use of counter spell, so yeah I do agree that as a ranged attack cantrip taking away a reaction is too much. So I'm VERY open to suggestions on other rider effects that will fit the electric/lightning damage theme and would balance with the cantrip being ranged, a spell attack roll and doing a d8 damage.
Rather than just duplicating the shocking grasp reaction nerf effect, maybe come up with something different? For example, make it a lesser version of guiding bolt that gives a bonus to hit to the next attack against the target, scaling along with the damage (i.e. +1 when it does 1d8, +2 at 2d8 etc.)
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Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock) Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric) Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue) Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Im honestly kinda Leary to do anything in the advantage/disadvantage realm and keep it as an attack cantrip with the damage at a d8. If ray of frost didnt have the slow rider already taken I think it would be very thematic for a lightning cantrip.
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I don't remember if I shared this in one of its temp incarnations but provided there is no consensus on anything wrong with it, this is my final version. So thoughts?
https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/1353074-arc-lightning
Can't see it. Is it set to private or is it published?
Should be good now
This is a ranged shocking grasp that doesn't get advantage against creatures wearing metal armour. It's stronger than any comparable damage dealing cantrip.
Costing a creature its reaction is probably too powerful for a ranged spell attack. Ask yourself this: would you ever cast a fire bolt or ray of frost against a target that was within the 60 foot range (most combats happen within 60 foot range).
The Firebolt has the benefits of longer range and higher damage than the Ray of Frost, but doesn't slow the target.
Costing a creature its reaction is better than the range and better than the slowing effect. At higher levels, this can prevent opportunity attacks from creatures that hit for 26 (5d12), like a bullette, or even more. It also enables one caster to prevent counterspell or shieldby enemy spell casters, giving it offensive powers (Shocking Grasp is largely defensive). It becomes the most effective anti-caster tool in the game.
A good question is: would this cantrip still see major use even if it dealt zero damage? Make a ranged attack roll, if you succeed the target has no reaction. My guess is that it would still be cast regularly.
shocking grasp is limited by needing touch. I'd suggest that you reduce the damage on this spell to 1d4, or perhaps remove the damage component altogether.
Remember two things with Homebrew:
1: The bad guys can use it too. Will your players enjoy losing reactions this way?
2: You can always start it weak (let's say 1d4 damage) and power it up and the players will be happy. You can't nerf the damage and have happy players. As soon as you nerf something, it will never feel the same again and players stop using it altogether, even if it's still effective - so start low and work up.
what do you suggest? Stripping the rider, bumping the damage to a d10 and making is a fire bolt clone? Any cantrip with a damage of d4, to me, isn't worth taking. If AOE was more appropriate for cantrips I'd have made it a 30 foot range, a d6 damage and of an AOE of a line.
Sorry, my last reply may have come across hostile, not my intent. Im legit looking for ideas for a good well balanced and useful lightning damage, preferably attack, cantrip.
What if I ditched the no reaction rider and went with the attack getting advantage if the target is wearing metal?
What about Vicious Mockery? 1d4 damage and disadvantage on the next attack, regularly used.
What's your goal with this spell? I'd assumed that the remove-reaction part was the most important part. Giving advantage against armoured enemies is largely the same as giving a +5 bonus to the attack roll, statistically, which makes it the strongest damage cantrip in the game. The difference in damage between 1d10 damage and 1d8 damage is 5.5 compared to 4.5.
Looking at other damaging cantrips:
What you can take from this is that:
For some alternative, less powerful or situational effects you could give to a lightning based damage cantrip:
If the goal is just to make it deal a bunch of damage, then just have it deal 2d4 damage (2-8 rather than 1-8 on a d8) and give it 120ft range. More creatures have fire resistance than lightning, so it already has an advantage there.
What im hoping to do is to create a decent spell attack lightning cantrip that has a useful, balanced, thematic, "minor effect" rider and preferably does a d8 damage with a minimum range of 30 feet and a preferable range of 60 feet. Now... I didnt think of the reaction nerf having such a huge effect on other spell casters use of counter spell, so yeah I do agree that as a ranged attack cantrip taking away a reaction is too much. So I'm VERY open to suggestions on other rider effects that will fit the electric/lightning damage theme and would balance with the cantrip being ranged, a spell attack roll and doing a d8 damage.
Rather than just duplicating the shocking grasp reaction nerf effect, maybe come up with something different? For example, make it a lesser version of guiding bolt that gives a bonus to hit to the next attack against the target, scaling along with the damage (i.e. +1 when it does 1d8, +2 at 2d8 etc.)
Active characters:
Carric Aquissar, elven wannabe artist in his deconstructionist period (Archfey warlock)
Lan Kidogo, mapach archaeologist and treasure hunter (Knowledge cleric)
Mardan Ferres, elven private investigator obsessed with that one unsolved murder (Assassin rogue)
Xhekhetiel, halfling survivor of a Betrayer Gods cult (Runechild sorcerer/fighter)
Im honestly kinda Leary to do anything in the advantage/disadvantage realm and keep it as an attack cantrip with the damage at a d8. If ray of frost didnt have the slow rider already taken I think it would be very thematic for a lightning cantrip.