So, I'm designing a character and I really loved the idea of a monk who uses arcane knowledge to buff their combat prowess. I came upon the bladesinger which seemed to synergise best with the MADness of the Monk, but I realised I wasn't sure which Monk path would suit this best. I've always struggled to get into open hand, though I'm open to a compelling case in its favour. Kensei seemed to make sense, but is also a wee bit underwhelming. My knee-jerk reaction was either shadow or four elements but neither is directly relevant to this style and I was wondering if anyone had any insights into how either might (stylistically & practically) lend themselves to the design, or if there's another option I'm overlooking.
Btw, I'm imagining a spear-wielding character, so the martial weapons aspect is not too big an issue.
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(GPyromania):
Moved from General Discussion to Class Forums: Monk
Sorry, I'm pretty new to the forum, did not realise that was where this was supposed to go. Is there a way of moving it? Or deleting it and replacing it?
Breakdown would start with 1 Wizard, 1 Monk, 1 wizard (Bladesinger) and then 3 more monk, at least. Not sure beyond that point, but I'd take bladesinger to somewhere between 4 - 8 max in the long run, I think.
Ooh, hadn't thought of drunken master, could have some interesting aspects...
If you are planning on your unarmed strikes to be a major part of you damage I recommend 6 levels of monk for ki powered strikes. Counting your fists as magic goes a long way to over come damage resistance. I personally would go more wizard early on. 2nd and 3rd level spells are a lot of fun and very useful. Something like 3 wizard/3 monk/3 wizard/3 monk/X wizard/monk.
You can use leather armor from bladesinger until you take levels of monk.
My only concern with dropping too heavily into wizard early on is that I'm planning to favour spells in the self-buffing/protecting sphere (read: expeditious retreat, shield, longstrider, etc.) pretty heavily, perhaps dabbling in some close proximity terrain control (cause tremors) or simple illusions (silent image) if I have the spell choices free. Until I get at least a touch of monk in there, I'm concerned I'm going to be hanging fellow party members out to dry a bit when combat comes around without any offensive capabilities to offer.
I was imagining, should the DM want us to use point buy, that my stats would look something like:
8, 17, 12, 15, 14, 8, including race mods for a High Elf and something as reminiscent of that as possible for rolled stats.
That's not a great deal of melee capability and I'm guessing I wouldn't have much more than a stern disposition and the occasional buff to use until I'm monk enough to start using a spear as more than an overly aggressive looking walking stick. For one level, that's probably fine, but if the group has to essentially carry me until level 4, it's seeming a wee bit unfair.
I do take your point though, there are some pretty entertaining wizard tricks further up the tree and it does seem a shame not to grab at least a few of them.
Both Wizard and Monk are rather weak classes at low levels, unfortunately. Since you evidently like the melee-spellcaster concept, it might be worth it to invest 1 level into Fighter first. It slows your progression a bit, but having medium armor proficiency, Second Wind, CON save proficiency and the Defense fighting style would decrease your reliance on defensive spells somewhat. That frees up a spell slot or two for offensive or control spells.
Both Wizard and Monk are rather weak classes at low levels, unfortunately. Since you evidently like the melee-spellcaster concept, it might be worth it to invest 1 level into Fighter first. It slows your progression a bit, but having medium armor proficiency, Second Wind, CON save proficiency and the Defense fighting style would decrease your reliance on defensive spells somewhat. That frees up a spell slot or two for offensive or control spells.
I dunno Monk is very powerful low levels, giving you two attacks before level 5 is clutch.
I guess what I meant was that Monks generated via standard array or stat buy often die pretty easily due to lack of armor and non-maxed stats contributing to Unarmored Defense combined with proximity to the enemy (Kensei and Sunsoul being partial exceptions to that).
I have a build for it, inspired by the now 28 year old Power Rangers TV series.
Here’s the stats with Point Buy/Array
Dex - 15 (Power Rangers do martial arts, slightly unnecessary backflips and sometimes a bit of shooting.)
Int - 15 (You command a whole host of advanced weaponry, technology and mechs so it helps to know what you’re doing)
Wis - 13 (For multiclassing purposes, though we’re jot going to be investing in it at all for this build)
Con - 12 (We’ll make it better later on to concentrate on spells)
Str & Cha - 8 (We need other stuff but mitigating dumped Str is always an easy fix and as Power Rangers with almost soulless helmets on your head whilst fighting evil, you don’t make a lot of time for idle chit chat with civilians)
Race: Custom Lineage (Power Rangers can literally be anything from regular human beings to aliens from other planets like Tripp from Time Force to androids like Mack from Operation Overdrive so in that spirit, this is our choice.)
Feat: Athlete (+1 Dex, your movement isn’t halved when you climb walls and you can stand up from prone and make a running long jump with only 5ft of movement. After meeting whoever gave you your powers, your physical capabilities started changing and becoming better.)
+2 Dex (We’ll be able to cap it early)
Skill: Perception (Not exactly always in character but still useful.)
Custom Background: Athletics, Insight (Mitigate that low Str score and read into your opponents’ weaknesses)
Monk/Way of the Kensei 8:
Acrobatics, History (Know about your enemies’ origins and motives so you can flip over them and send some sparks flying)
Martial Arts (Every Power Ranger worth their salt must be well versed in this)
Unarmoured Defence (We’ll make the coloured spandex a bit better but fir now this should cover you well)
Unarmoured Movement (The Morphing Grid blesses you with super speed)
Ki - 8 (2 extra punches, Dash/Disengage or Dodge as a bonus action)
Kensei Weapons (Depends on what colour you want but start with maybe a dagger and a hand crossbow. Swords are Red, axes are Black, spears are Blue, an extra dagger is Yellow and longbows are Pink)
Kensei Shot (Improve the damage with a bonus action)
Agile Parry (The main defensive draw of the subclass without taking Defensive Duelist)
Calligraphy (Come to think of it, the Samurai Rangers may be the most powerful because everything they do is built off of the skill of the gods.)
+2 Dex (Capping Dex quickly is the best move for better attacks, AC, initiative, Acrobatics and saves)
Slow Fall (Don’t mind those heights)
Quickened Healing (Maybe you’re reclaiming your resilve before jumping back into the fight. HP aren’t meat points)
Extra Attack (2 attacks with an action, 3 with Martial Arts, 4 with Flurry of Blows)
Stunning Strike (Don’t do this since you Wis is sub par)
Ki-Empowered Strikes/Magical Kensei Weapons (Nothing can get by your master crafted weapons and fists now)
Deft Strike (Charge up for one last attack and wipe your monster of the week out)
Evasion (No fireball/explosion is even going to touch you now)
Stillness of Mind (Remember what it means to protect and save the world)
Observant (+1 Int to even out the score, no one can surprise you now)
Wizard/Bladesinger 12:
Arcane Recovery (Idk the flavour here)
Bladesong (Your rudimentary morphing equipment)
Training in War and Song (Idk here either, but Zack can dance)
Resilient (+1 Con and Con saves)
Extra Attack (Regularly this wouldn’t stack between classes but now you can replace an attack with a cantrip so that’s gotta count for something)
Tough (+2 HP for every lvl you have and every lvl you get because of your measly Wizard hit die)
Song of Defence (More stuff to make you harder to hit)
Tavern Brawler (+1 Con, now your unarmed skills are at their peak)
Spells:
Jump (Mitigate that low Str score even further)
Longstrider (Move even faster than before)
Feather Fall (Never spend a ki point again)
Mage Armour (Didn’t invest in Wis)
Shield (More defensive bonuses)
Message (Wrist communicator)
Booming Blade (Deal a regular damage die with your attack, plus 4d8 thunder and an extra d6. Even vetter when you crit)
Haste (Make more stuff happen)
Freedom of Movement (Now nothing can hold you)
Tenser’s Transformation (Your Battlizer, which can deal even more damage than before)
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So, I'm designing a character and I really loved the idea of a monk who uses arcane knowledge to buff their combat prowess. I came upon the bladesinger which seemed to synergise best with the MADness of the Monk, but I realised I wasn't sure which Monk path would suit this best. I've always struggled to get into open hand, though I'm open to a compelling case in its favour. Kensei seemed to make sense, but is also a wee bit underwhelming. My knee-jerk reaction was either shadow or four elements but neither is directly relevant to this style and I was wondering if anyone had any insights into how either might (stylistically & practically) lend themselves to the design, or if there's another option I'm overlooking.
Btw, I'm imagining a spear-wielding character, so the martial weapons aspect is not too big an issue.
I guess any monk subclass could work.
this seems like it should be in the monk forums.
What breakdown of levels are we talking about? Way of the Drunken Master from Xanathar's seems like a fun combo.
Sorry, I'm pretty new to the forum, did not realise that was where this was supposed to go. Is there a way of moving it? Or deleting it and replacing it?
Breakdown would start with 1 Wizard, 1 Monk, 1 wizard (Bladesinger) and then 3 more monk, at least. Not sure beyond that point, but I'd take bladesinger to somewhere between 4 - 8 max in the long run, I think.
Ooh, hadn't thought of drunken master, could have some interesting aspects...
If you are planning on your unarmed strikes to be a major part of you damage I recommend 6 levels of monk for ki powered strikes. Counting your fists as magic goes a long way to over come damage resistance. I personally would go more wizard early on. 2nd and 3rd level spells are a lot of fun and very useful. Something like 3 wizard/3 monk/3 wizard/3 monk/X wizard/monk.
You can use leather armor from bladesinger until you take levels of monk.
My only concern with dropping too heavily into wizard early on is that I'm planning to favour spells in the self-buffing/protecting sphere (read: expeditious retreat, shield, longstrider, etc.) pretty heavily, perhaps dabbling in some close proximity terrain control (cause tremors) or simple illusions (silent image) if I have the spell choices free. Until I get at least a touch of monk in there, I'm concerned I'm going to be hanging fellow party members out to dry a bit when combat comes around without any offensive capabilities to offer.
I was imagining, should the DM want us to use point buy, that my stats would look something like:
8, 17, 12, 15, 14, 8, including race mods for a High Elf and something as reminiscent of that as possible for rolled stats.
That's not a great deal of melee capability and I'm guessing I wouldn't have much more than a stern disposition and the occasional buff to use until I'm monk enough to start using a spear as more than an overly aggressive looking walking stick. For one level, that's probably fine, but if the group has to essentially carry me until level 4, it's seeming a wee bit unfair.
I do take your point though, there are some pretty entertaining wizard tricks further up the tree and it does seem a shame not to grab at least a few of them.
Fair point point. I was thinking it was a bladesinger build not a monk build with some wizard.
Both Wizard and Monk are rather weak classes at low levels, unfortunately. Since you evidently like the melee-spellcaster concept, it might be worth it to invest 1 level into Fighter first. It slows your progression a bit, but having medium armor proficiency, Second Wind, CON save proficiency and the Defense fighting style would decrease your reliance on defensive spells somewhat. That frees up a spell slot or two for offensive or control spells.
I dunno Monk is very powerful low levels, giving you two attacks before level 5 is clutch.
I guess what I meant was that Monks generated via standard array or stat buy often die pretty easily due to lack of armor and non-maxed stats contributing to Unarmored Defense combined with proximity to the enemy (Kensei and Sunsoul being partial exceptions to that).
I have a build for it, inspired by the now 28 year old Power Rangers TV series.
Here’s the stats with Point Buy/Array
Dex - 15 (Power Rangers do martial arts, slightly unnecessary backflips and sometimes a bit of shooting.)
Int - 15 (You command a whole host of advanced weaponry, technology and mechs so it helps to know what you’re doing)
Wis - 13 (For multiclassing purposes, though we’re jot going to be investing in it at all for this build)
Con - 12 (We’ll make it better later on to concentrate on spells)
Str & Cha - 8 (We need other stuff but mitigating dumped Str is always an easy fix and as Power Rangers with almost soulless helmets on your head whilst fighting evil, you don’t make a lot of time for idle chit chat with civilians)
Race: Custom Lineage (Power Rangers can literally be anything from regular human beings to aliens from other planets like Tripp from Time Force to androids like Mack from Operation Overdrive so in that spirit, this is our choice.)
Feat: Athlete (+1 Dex, your movement isn’t halved when you climb walls and you can stand up from prone and make a running long jump with only 5ft of movement. After meeting whoever gave you your powers, your physical capabilities started changing and becoming better.)
+2 Dex (We’ll be able to cap it early)
Skill: Perception (Not exactly always in character but still useful.)
Custom Background: Athletics, Insight (Mitigate that low Str score and read into your opponents’ weaknesses)
Monk/Way of the Kensei 8:
Acrobatics, History (Know about your enemies’ origins and motives so you can flip over them and send some sparks flying)
Martial Arts (Every Power Ranger worth their salt must be well versed in this)
Unarmoured Defence (We’ll make the coloured spandex a bit better but fir now this should cover you well)
Unarmoured Movement (The Morphing Grid blesses you with super speed)
Ki - 8 (2 extra punches, Dash/Disengage or Dodge as a bonus action)
Kensei Weapons (Depends on what colour you want but start with maybe a dagger and a hand crossbow. Swords are Red, axes are Black, spears are Blue, an extra dagger is Yellow and longbows are Pink)
Kensei Shot (Improve the damage with a bonus action)
Agile Parry (The main defensive draw of the subclass without taking Defensive Duelist)
Calligraphy (Come to think of it, the Samurai Rangers may be the most powerful because everything they do is built off of the skill of the gods.)
+2 Dex (Capping Dex quickly is the best move for better attacks, AC, initiative, Acrobatics and saves)
Slow Fall (Don’t mind those heights)
Quickened Healing (Maybe you’re reclaiming your resilve before jumping back into the fight. HP aren’t meat points)
Extra Attack (2 attacks with an action, 3 with Martial Arts, 4 with Flurry of Blows)
Stunning Strike (Don’t do this since you Wis is sub par)
Ki-Empowered Strikes/Magical Kensei Weapons (Nothing can get by your master crafted weapons and fists now)
Deft Strike (Charge up for one last attack and wipe your monster of the week out)
Evasion (No fireball/explosion is even going to touch you now)
Stillness of Mind (Remember what it means to protect and save the world)
Observant (+1 Int to even out the score, no one can surprise you now)
Wizard/Bladesinger 12:
Arcane Recovery (Idk the flavour here)
Bladesong (Your rudimentary morphing equipment)
Training in War and Song (Idk here either, but Zack can dance)
Resilient (+1 Con and Con saves)
Extra Attack (Regularly this wouldn’t stack between classes but now you can replace an attack with a cantrip so that’s gotta count for something)
Tough (+2 HP for every lvl you have and every lvl you get because of your measly Wizard hit die)
Song of Defence (More stuff to make you harder to hit)
Tavern Brawler (+1 Con, now your unarmed skills are at their peak)
Spells:
Jump (Mitigate that low Str score even further)
Longstrider (Move even faster than before)
Feather Fall (Never spend a ki point again)
Mage Armour (Didn’t invest in Wis)
Shield (More defensive bonuses)
Message (Wrist communicator)
Booming Blade (Deal a regular damage die with your attack, plus 4d8 thunder and an extra d6. Even vetter when you crit)
Haste (Make more stuff happen)
Freedom of Movement (Now nothing can hold you)
Tenser’s Transformation (Your Battlizer, which can deal even more damage than before)