What it says on the tin. I'm playing a cleric/monk multiclass, and me and my DM can't quite find the answer we need. So: do spells count as "attacks" in this case, or is it only weapon attacks? And if yes, is it only attack spells, or do save spells work too? (Like, could I cast inflict wounds as my "attack action" and go into flurry of blows, and what about something like sacred flame that requires a saving throw instead of an attack roll?) If anyone has an official answer that would be great, but if not I'd be grateful to hear people's personal rulings. We just wanna keep everything above board, lol.
Spell Attacks are almost always the Cast A Spell action (2014 rules) or the Magic Action (2024 rules). The main exception is if the spell creates an ongoing affect that allows the caster to use the Attack Action, such as the weapon created by Shadow Blade or the weapon enhancement of the Shillelagh.
Since I assume you're using the 2014 rules, casting a spell would not count to allow you to use Flurry of Blows, or the Martial Arts feature's Bonus Action Unarmed Strike, since you're not taking the Attack Action.
That, and the fact that Monks often have other features that they'd like to use that don't take the Attack Action, is likely one of the reasons the requirements were changed under the 2024 rules.
Under the 2024 rules, there's no restriction on requiring the 2024 Attack Action using Flurry of Blows (or the Martial Arts Bonus Action Monk Unarmed attack) except having an available Bonus Action, having a foe in range, and (for the Martial Arts bonus action Unarmed attack at least,) being unarmored and either unarmed or wielding only Monk weapons
Spells that do not require an Attack Roll by the caster are never attacks, as the rules define them.
The Attack action is not the same as "making an attack". You get one action on your turn. One of your options is the Attack action, which allows you to make one or more attacks. There are other ways to make an attack roll (spells, opportunity attacks, various bonus action attacks including Flurry of Blows, etc.), but none of them are the Attack action. A lot of abilities key specifically on making the Attack action, deliberately so that you can't combo them with all the other ways to make attacks.
What it says on the tin. I'm playing a cleric/monk multiclass, and me and my DM can't quite find the answer we need. So: do spells count as "attacks" in this case, or is it only weapon attacks? And if yes, is it only attack spells, or do save spells work too? (Like, could I cast inflict wounds as my "attack action" and go into flurry of blows, and what about something like sacred flame that requires a saving throw instead of an attack roll?) If anyone has an official answer that would be great, but if not I'd be grateful to hear people's personal rulings. We just wanna keep everything above board, lol.
Nope, just like your fits are not weapons either, for instance if you wanted to take duelist feat (or MC as fighter/etc) you can not add the +2 dam bonus. RAW, but doesn’t mean your table could override that ruling and consider fists as bludgeon weapon, because you know I’m beating you to the pulp.
So you need to make a melee action, but in 2024 FOB can be used without triggering by an attack, but in 2014 rules its required to Attack (melee for FOB or BA unarmed attack.
What it says on the tin. I'm playing a cleric/monk multiclass, and me and my DM can't quite find the answer we need. So: do spells count as "attacks" in this case, or is it only weapon attacks? And if yes, is it only attack spells, or do save spells work too? (Like, could I cast inflict wounds as my "attack action" and go into flurry of blows, and what about something like sacred flame that requires a saving throw instead of an attack roll?) If anyone has an official answer that would be great, but if not I'd be grateful to hear people's personal rulings. We just wanna keep everything above board, lol.
spells are Magic Action, not Attack action. If you have two attacks, you can take the attack action and the magic action.
What it says on the tin. I'm playing a cleric/monk multiclass, and me and my DM can't quite find the answer we need. So: do spells count as "attacks" in this case, or is it only weapon attacks? And if yes, is it only attack spells, or do save spells work too? (Like, could I cast inflict wounds as my "attack action" and go into flurry of blows, and what about something like sacred flame that requires a saving throw instead of an attack roll?) If anyone has an official answer that would be great, but if not I'd be grateful to hear people's personal rulings. We just wanna keep everything above board, lol.
So you need to make a melee action, but in 2024 FOB can be used without triggering by an attack, but in 2014 rules its required to Attack (melee for FOB or BA unarmed attack.
Am I understanding you correcting in saying FOB can be performed without taking the attack action?
spells are Magic Action, not Attack action. If you have two attacks, you can take the attack action and the magic action.
This is incorrect. You get one action on your turn, so can take either Magic, or Attack.
(The attack action can include multiple individual attacks, but those are not actions.)
(Some class/subclass combos can substitute a cantrip for one of the attacks of the attack action, but that is part of the Attack action, and is not the Magic action. And they can only do it because they have an ability that says so.)
The 2014 Monk Class Features, which I assumed the original poster was working under, because of the way they asked the question, do require that the Attack Action be used first on the Monk's turn to use Bonus Action Unarmed Strike or Flurry of Blows. Admittedly, the original poster has not yet confirmed that the group being asked about was using the 2014 rules.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Darn it. I guess my mind is still stuck in 2014 because that was drilled in our heads that the bonus and attack actions couldn't be separated. But still if he has two attack actions he should be able to use his bonus action, take one of his attack actions and substitute the second attack action for a Magic Action.
Darn it. I guess my mind is still stuck in 2014 because that was drilled in our heads that the bonus and attack actions couldn't be separated. But still if he has two attack actions he should be able to use his bonus action, take one of his attack actions and substitute the second attack action for a Magic Action.
You never* have two Attack actions. What you have is an ability that lets you make two attacks when you take the Attack action. You can no more turn one of your two attacks into a spell than you can use it to Dash. **
The Attack action is not the same thing as "an attack". Yes, the terminology overlap is confusing.
* Yes, yes. Action Surge and Haste. This do, in fact, give you an additional action, which can be used for the Attack action. (But not, under 24 rules, for the Magic action.)
** Eldritch knight and similar subclasses excepted, because they have an ability that lets them do that.
Darn it. I guess my mind is still stuck in 2014 because that was drilled in our heads that the bonus and attack actions couldn't be separated. But still if he has two attack actions he should be able to use his bonus action, take one of his attack actions and substitute the second attack action for a Magic Action.
He does not have two attack actions, because that's not a thing. You can only take one action in a turn, unless you use something like Action Surge or Haste to get another one.
What you may be thinking of is the Extra Attack feature that most martial characters get at level 5, which allows making two attacks with the same action. This is still one Attack action, not two, and you can't replace part of it with casting a spell unless you have a feature that specifically enables that, such as the Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature.
Darn it. I guess my mind is still stuck in 2014 because that was drilled in our heads that the bonus and attack actions couldn't be separated. But still if he has two attack actions he should be able to use his bonus action, take one of his attack actions and substitute the second attack action for a Magic Action.
He does not have two attack actions, because that's not a thing. You can only take one action in a turn, unless you use something like Action Surge or Haste to get another one.
What you may be thinking of is the Extra Attack feature that most martial characters get at level 5, which allows making two attacks with the same action. This is still one Attack action, not two, and you can't replace part of it with casting a spell unless you have a feature that specifically enables that, such as the Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature.
Darn it. I guess my mind is still stuck in 2014 because that was drilled in our heads that the bonus and attack actions couldn't be separated. But still if he has two attack actions he should be able to use his bonus action, take one of his attack actions and substitute the second attack action for a Magic Action.
He does not have two attack actions, because that's not a thing. You can only take one action in a turn, unless you use something like Action Surge or Haste to get another one.
What you may be thinking of is the Extra Attack feature that most martial characters get at level 5, which allows making two attacks with the same action. This is still one Attack action, not two, and you can't replace part of it with casting a spell unless you have a feature that specifically enables that, such as the Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature.
Thanks for the clarification. I play other rpgs so literally get the mechanics confused
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What it says on the tin. I'm playing a cleric/monk multiclass, and me and my DM can't quite find the answer we need. So: do spells count as "attacks" in this case, or is it only weapon attacks? And if yes, is it only attack spells, or do save spells work too? (Like, could I cast inflict wounds as my "attack action" and go into flurry of blows, and what about something like sacred flame that requires a saving throw instead of an attack roll?)
If anyone has an official answer that would be great, but if not I'd be grateful to hear people's personal rulings. We just wanna keep everything above board, lol.
Spell Attacks are almost always the Cast A Spell action (2014 rules) or the Magic Action (2024 rules). The main exception is if the spell creates an ongoing affect that allows the caster to use the Attack Action, such as the weapon created by Shadow Blade or the weapon enhancement of the Shillelagh.
Since I assume you're using the 2014 rules, casting a spell would not count to allow you to use Flurry of Blows, or the Martial Arts feature's Bonus Action Unarmed Strike, since you're not taking the Attack Action.
That, and the fact that Monks often have other features that they'd like to use that don't take the Attack Action, is likely one of the reasons the requirements were changed under the 2024 rules.
Under the 2024 rules, there's no restriction on requiring the 2024 Attack Action using Flurry of Blows (or the Martial Arts Bonus Action Monk Unarmed attack) except having an available Bonus Action, having a foe in range, and (for the Martial Arts bonus action Unarmed attack at least,) being unarmored and either unarmed or wielding only Monk weapons
Spells that do not require an Attack Roll by the caster are never attacks, as the rules define them.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Just to simplify to the core point of confusion:
The Attack action is not the same as "making an attack". You get one action on your turn. One of your options is the Attack action, which allows you to make one or more attacks. There are other ways to make an attack roll (spells, opportunity attacks, various bonus action attacks including Flurry of Blows, etc.), but none of them are the Attack action. A lot of abilities key specifically on making the Attack action, deliberately so that you can't combo them with all the other ways to make attacks.
(Is the name overlap confusing? Absolutely.)
It would be so much easier for new players to pick this up if the Attack action were called "Assault" or something.
pronouns: he/she/they
Thank you so much, that makes WAY more sense than what I was finding.
Nope, just like your fits are not weapons either, for instance if you wanted to take duelist feat (or MC as fighter/etc) you can not add the +2 dam bonus. RAW, but doesn’t mean your table could override that ruling and consider fists as bludgeon weapon, because you know I’m beating you to the pulp.
here is a link for the Action economy for 2024:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/phb-2024/rules-glossary#Action
Here’s the verbiage under Martial
https://www.dndbeyond.com/classes/11-monk
So you need to make a melee action, but in 2024 FOB can be used without triggering by an attack, but in 2014 rules its required to Attack (melee for FOB or BA unarmed attack.
spells are Magic Action, not Attack action. If you have two attacks, you can take the attack action and the magic action.
Am I understanding you correcting in saying FOB can be performed without taking the attack action?
This is incorrect. You get one action on your turn, so can take either Magic, or Attack.
(The attack action can include multiple individual attacks, but those are not actions.)
(Some class/subclass combos can substitute a cantrip for one of the attacks of the attack action, but that is part of the Attack action, and is not the Magic action. And they can only do it because they have an ability that says so.)
Yes:
Neither of these abilities have a precondition, so you can use them before your action, and no matter what action you take.
Note that this is only the case under the 2024 Monk Class Features.
The 2014 Monk Class Features, which I assumed the original poster was working under, because of the way they asked the question, do require that the Attack Action be used first on the Monk's turn to use Bonus Action Unarmed Strike or Flurry of Blows. Admittedly, the original poster has not yet confirmed that the group being asked about was using the 2014 rules.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Darn it. I guess my mind is still stuck in 2014 because that was drilled in our heads that the bonus and attack actions couldn't be separated. But still if he has two attack actions he should be able to use his bonus action, take one of his attack actions and substitute the second attack action for a Magic Action.
You never* have two Attack actions. What you have is an ability that lets you make two attacks when you take the Attack action. You can no more turn one of your two attacks into a spell than you can use it to Dash. **
The Attack action is not the same thing as "an attack". Yes, the terminology overlap is confusing.
* Yes, yes. Action Surge and Haste. This do, in fact, give you an additional action, which can be used for the Attack action. (But not, under 24 rules, for the Magic action.)
** Eldritch knight and similar subclasses excepted, because they have an ability that lets them do that.
He does not have two attack actions, because that's not a thing. You can only take one action in a turn, unless you use something like Action Surge or Haste to get another one.
What you may be thinking of is the Extra Attack feature that most martial characters get at level 5, which allows making two attacks with the same action. This is still one Attack action, not two, and you can't replace part of it with casting a spell unless you have a feature that specifically enables that, such as the Eldritch Knight's War Magic feature.
pronouns: he/she/they
Thanks for the clarification. I play other rpgs so literally get the mechanics confused