"Path" has been the descriptor on Barbarian Subclasses for all of 5th Edition. "Warrior" has been a catch-all for characters skilled at fighting for at least a couple D&D editions.
Ultimately the design choice has been to move Monk-as-class away from Kung -Fu Movie archetypes and more towards Character who primarily fights things unarmed and unarmored. You're free to add whatever flavor you want on it back if you want.
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🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Doesn’t bother me. I hardly ever used Way of… anyway. It’s always been and will continue to be Open Hand Monk, Shadow Monk, Elements Monk, Mercy Monk, etc..
A different question might be “focus points from?” How do you conceptualize the power of a monk coming from. Life force, essence, self. For me it comes from a quality of mind call impartial nonjudgemental awareness, Simply being with the dexterity based body and mind, without having to react. This is an example of the quality of meditation that monks carry.
A different question might be “focus points from?” How do you conceptualize the power of a monk coming from. Life force, essence, self. For me it comes from a quality of mind call impartial nonjudgemental awareness, Simply being with the dexterity based body and mind, without having to react. This is an example of the quality of meditation that monks carry.
Interesting idea.
There can be a variety of ways to conceptualize focus points depending on the character concept. I don’t have just one way of looking at it. One character it could just be force of will while another spiritual enlightenment and on another tapping into the forces of the Weave as almost another aspect of magic. Just depends on what type of character you want to play.
I couldn't care less about the names. They're just labels for a chassis. People get way too caught up on the name of a class, ability, subtype etc
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Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
A different question might be “focus points from?” How do you conceptualize the power of a monk coming from. Life force, essence, self. For me it comes from a quality of mind call impartial nonjudgemental awareness, Simply being with the dexterity based body and mind, without having to react. This is an example of the quality of meditation that monks carry.
The UAs used "Discipline Points", which was fitting for the Monk. Non-culturally specific, didn't explicitly make the Monk magical, highlighted that discipline and training were a fundamental aspect of the class.
It got changed to "Focus Points" because "Focus" is often used in Wuxia, anime, martial-arts fiction to refer to Monks having supernatural physical qualities, and the target audience of 2024 5e is the kind of people who are obsessed with idolizing and appropriating Asian culture.
Funny how a word that can have different meanings and can be used to argue against or for something. To me Focus is more about, you know, focusing on a thing. Focus on the task at hand, focus your attention, or focusing your energy toward something. I don’t know how it is used in Wuxia, anime, or MA fiction as that’s not my thing. I did watch 70’s kung-fu movies and the TV show with David Carradine, and Jackie Chan movies. And I took Kenpo Karate while I was in junior high and high school but that’s as far as it went. But that was 35+ years ago
And I believe one of The Asians Represent Podcast on YouTube had the exact opposite reaction as you and felt Discipline points was just as problematic as you see Focus Points.
I don’t think any term WotC came up with would have satisfied everyone. And I prefer Focus to Discipline because it’s easier to say.
A different question might be “focus points from?” How do you conceptualize the power of a monk coming from. Life force, essence, self. For me it comes from a quality of mind call impartial nonjudgemental awareness, Simply being with the dexterity based body and mind, without having to react. This is an example of the quality of meditation that monks carry.
The UAs used "Discipline Points", which was fitting for the Monk. Non-culturally specific, didn't explicitly make the Monk magical, highlighted that discipline and training were a fundamental aspect of the class.
It got changed to "Focus Points" because "Focus" is often used in Wuxia, anime, martial-arts fiction to refer to Monks having supernatural physical qualities, and the target audience of 2024 5e is the kind of people who are obsessed with idolizing and appropriating Asian culture.
Funny how a word that can have different meanings and can be used to argue against or for something. To me Focus is more about, you know, focusing on a thing. Focus on the task at hand, focus your attention, or focusing your energy toward something. I don’t know how it is used in Wuxia, anime, or MA fiction as that’s not my thing. I did watch 70’s kung-fu movies and the TV show with David Carradine, and Jackie Chan movies. And I took Kenpo Karate while I was in junior high and high school but that’s as far as it went. But that was 35+ years ago
And I believe one of The Asians Represent Podcast on YouTube had the exact opposite reaction as you and felt Discipline points was just as problematic as you see Focus Points.
I don’t think any term WotC came up with would have satisfied everyone. And I prefer Focus to Discipline because it’s easier to say.
Without Buddha, mindfulness or focus would not be a practice in its self, no Shaolin Monk's, and the psychodynamics of mediation would be unknown to the west. I can't separate the body from the mind it makes no sense to me, I feel emotions physically and inwardly, and a drifting mind can leave me mindless while I'm doing something else. Even in Forgotten Realms they have room for Enlightenment and the Yellow Rose Monastery. Limbo does sound a lot like my mind at times. Staying in the present moment can cause me to be interested in anxiety when it arises and surrounding it with the patience of the Buddha can help any Monk.
I liked discipline points when it came out, then I liked focus points when they arrived.
A different question might be “focus points from?” How do you conceptualize the power of a monk coming from. Life force, essence, self. For me it comes from a quality of mind call impartial nonjudgemental awareness, Simply being with the dexterity based body and mind, without having to react. This is an example of the quality of meditation that monks carry.
Interesting idea.
There can be a variety of ways to conceptualize focus points depending on the character concept. I don’t have just one way of looking at it. One character it could just be force of will while another spiritual enlightenment and on another tapping into the forces of the Weave as almost another aspect of magic. Just depends on what type of character you want to play.
Tapping into the Weave would not be a good concept. The question on whether Monks used a form of "magic" to produce their Ki powered abilities, that made them subject to Anti-magic had apparently been issue of contention. The UA deliberately removed the word, "magic", from the Monk's description and kept it off in the 2024 PHB.
A different question might be “focus points from?” How do you conceptualize the power of a monk coming from. Life force, essence, self. For me it comes from a quality of mind call impartial nonjudgemental awareness, Simply being with the dexterity based body and mind, without having to react. This is an example of the quality of meditation that monks carry.
The UAs used "Discipline Points", which was fitting for the Monk. Non-culturally specific, didn't explicitly make the Monk magical, highlighted that discipline and training were a fundamental aspect of the class.
It got changed to "Focus Points" because "Focus" is often used in Wuxia, anime, martial-arts fiction to refer to Monks having supernatural physical qualities, and the target audience of 2024 5e is the kind of people who are obsessed with idolizing and appropriating Asian culture.
Funny how a word that can have different meanings and can be used to argue against or for something. To me Focus is more about, you know, focusing on a thing. Focus on the task at hand, focus your attention, or focusing your energy toward something. I don’t know how it is used in Wuxia, anime, or MA fiction as that’s not my thing. I did watch 70’s kung-fu movies and the TV show with David Carradine, and Jackie Chan movies. And I took Kenpo Karate while I was in junior high and high school but that’s as far as it went. But that was 35+ years ago
And I believe one of The Asians Represent Podcast on YouTube had the exact opposite reaction as you and felt Discipline points was just as problematic as you see Focus Points.
I don’t think any term WotC came up with would have satisfied everyone. And I prefer Focus to Discipline because it’s easier to say.
Without Buddha, mindfulness or focus would not be a practice in its self, no Shaolin Monk's, and the psychodynamics of mediation would be unknown to the west. I
I don't know if that is entirely true. Mindfulness was a thing a thousand or more years before Buddhism, under Hinduism. Some form of mindfulness as a religion or discipline would have likely branched out to people outside of India.
A different question might be “focus points from?” How do you conceptualize the power of a monk coming from. Life force, essence, self. For me it comes from a quality of mind call impartial nonjudgemental awareness, Simply being with the dexterity based body and mind, without having to react. This is an example of the quality of meditation that monks carry.
Interesting idea.
There can be a variety of ways to conceptualize focus points depending on the character concept. I don’t have just one way of looking at it. One character it could just be force of will while another spiritual enlightenment and on another tapping into the forces of the Weave as almost another aspect of magic. Just depends on what type of character you want to play.
Tapping into the Weave would not be a good concept. The question on whether Monks used a form of "magic" to produce their Ki powered abilities, that made them subject to Anti-magic had apparently been issue of contention. The UA deliberately removed the word, "magic", from the Monk's description and kept it off in the 2024 PHB.
I think it can be a perfectly good concept if that is a type of character you want to play. I don’t intend that to be the only way to conceptualize focus points. Just one of a thousand different ways. And tapping into the weave could be no different that dragons being magical yet not a magical effect that an anti magic field would negate.
WOTC and designers just trying to hard to not walk on eggshells without breaking them, with their beliefs of choice of labels. And people are caring to about their choices. Big deal of their choices, not going to change the mechanics or game style. For all I care, the could have called them goosebumps fodder for you to spend instead of focus points. Great, dm I’m spending a FP Toto stun. No change to game play. Stop the silliness of what people decide.
A different question might be “focus points from?” How do you conceptualize the power of a monk coming from. Life force, essence, self. For me it comes from a quality of mind call impartial nonjudgemental awareness, Simply being with the dexterity based body and mind, without having to react. This is an example of the quality of meditation that monks carry.
The UAs used "Discipline Points", which was fitting for the Monk. Non-culturally specific, didn't explicitly make the Monk magical, highlighted that discipline and training were a fundamental aspect of the class.
It got changed to "Focus Points" because "Focus" is often used in Wuxia, anime, martial-arts fiction to refer to Monks having supernatural physical qualities, and the target audience of 2024 5e is the kind of people who are obsessed with idolizing and appropriating Asian culture.
Funny how a word that can have different meanings and can be used to argue against or for something. To me Focus is more about, you know, focusing on a thing. Focus on the task at hand, focus your attention, or focusing your energy toward something. I don’t know how it is used in Wuxia, anime, or MA fiction as that’s not my thing. I did watch 70’s kung-fu movies and the TV show with David Carradine, and Jackie Chan movies. And I took Kenpo Karate while I was in junior high and high school but that’s as far as it went. But that was 35+ years ago
And I believe one of The Asians Represent Podcast on YouTube had the exact opposite reaction as you and felt Discipline points was just as problematic as you see Focus Points.
I don’t think any term WotC came up with would have satisfied everyone. And I prefer Focus to Discipline because it’s easier to say.
Without Buddha, mindfulness or focus would not be a practice in its self, no Shaolin Monk's, and the psychodynamics of mediation would be unknown to the west. I
I don't know if that is entirely true. Mindfulness was a thing a thousand or more years before Buddhism, under Hinduism. Some form of mindfulness as a religion or discipline would have likely branched out to people outside of India.
Without Buddha it would not be codified and developed to its logical conclusion. it would not be known in the west in particular the attentional strategy of bare attention of impartiality that was identified by Freud and practiced by Buddhist for a millennia that came to DnD in the form of focus. Because focus is a problem in this day and age. No Buddha no focus. Meditation has infiltrated DnD and the designers know that is a good thing. Look up Limbo in the dmg.
A different question might be “focus points from?” How do you conceptualize the power of a monk coming from. Life force, essence, self. For me it comes from a quality of mind call impartial nonjudgemental awareness, Simply being with the dexterity based body and mind, without having to react. This is an example of the quality of meditation that monks carry.
Interesting idea.
There can be a variety of ways to conceptualize focus points depending on the character concept. I don’t have just one way of looking at it. One character it could just be force of will while another spiritual enlightenment and on another tapping into the forces of the Weave as almost another aspect of magic. Just depends on what type of character you want to play.
Tapping into the Weave would not be a good concept. The question on whether Monks used a form of "magic" to produce their Ki powered abilities, that made them subject to Anti-magic had apparently been issue of contention. The UA deliberately removed the word, "magic", from the Monk's description and kept it off in the 2024 PHB.
I think it can be a perfectly good concept if that is a type of character you want to play. I don’t intend that to be the only way to conceptualize focus points. Just one of a thousand different ways. And tapping into the weave could be no different that dragons being magical yet not a magical effect that an anti magic field would negate.
it’s about concept not mechanics.
I use to conceptualize ki as magic as a OH Monk, but the new PH has clarified and given me new purpose with repeated emphasis on mindfulness, it is so much better written that I naturally focus better. The PH is a great read, challenging enough to develop mindfulness, not dry enough for boredom, clear as any Buddhist writer worth reading. Monks by nature need to be lawful for discipline and impartial as a great GM. Magical and fun, the new Monk is a welcome addition to any party that needs to worry about shenanigans , I think we should push for more Monks.
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I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.
Honestly I kind of agree with the OP. I don't particularly care for monks subclasses being "Warrior of ..." but it also doesn't bother me overly much. I think they could have kept the Way title and still distanced monk from the weird and offensive Orientalist roots. I think the idea of an esoteric style of fighting can be generalized. But again, it doesn't really bother me much.
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Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Honestly I kind of agree with the OP. I don't particularly care for monks subclasses being "Warrior of ..." but it also doesn't bother me overly much. I think they could have kept the Way title and still distanced monk from the weird and offensive Orientalist roots. I think the idea of an esoteric style of fighting can be generalized. But again, it doesn't really bother me much.
I’m not sure what you mean by weird and offensive Orientalist roots, I met an Asian man who played an Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Monk and he liked the class. I didn’t think from what I read at a teen about oriental adventures was that bad for the time. DnD acknowledges that it is always evolving and not devolving in social issues. Looking back on some of the material makes me cringe. I think DnD Monk should stay rooted in Asian martial arts where it sprang. Quivering palm has been a tradition, and now expanded to tai chi in the OH Monk subclass. Because its a lifestyle not just a hobby.
A perfect title would have been "Disciple of [x]". It fits the Monk flavour without tying it to any specific culture.
But that would involve discipline being an innate element of the class, instead of "brainless facemash".
I like the Disciple of idea.
I don’t know about discipline not being an innate element of the class. It’s their discipline of mind and body that allows them to move at higher speeds than any other class. Allows them to hit harder with both weapons and unarmed than any other class with the same weapon. Allows them to fall with reduced damage or taking no damage at all, etc.
A perfect title would have been "Disciple of [x]". It fits the Monk flavour without tying it to any specific culture.
But that would involve discipline being an innate element of the class, instead of "brainless facemash".
I like the Disciple of idea.
I don’t know about discipline not being an innate element of the class. It’s their discipline of mind and body that allows them to move at higher speeds than any other class. Allows them to hit harder with both weapons and unarmed than any other class with the same weapon. Allows them to fall with reduced damage or taking no damage at all, etc.
Discipline is also expressed through a Monks lawful alignment, I tend to be LN, because I value the discipline of mind called impartiality, not necessarily love as the highest value, which puts me at odds with society. This quality of mind is innate to awareness, but it’s a bit scary so most people avoid it. I like the alignment tables, for possible values for behavior.
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I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.
Honestly I kind of agree with the OP. I don't particularly care for monks subclasses being "Warrior of ..." but it also doesn't bother me overly much. I think they could have kept the Way title and still distanced monk from the weird and offensive Orientalist roots. I think the idea of an esoteric style of fighting can be generalized. But again, it doesn't really bother me much.
I’m not sure what you mean by weird and offensive Orientalist roots
I'm talking about how when the monk class was created, it was explicitly linked to Asian cultures in a way that was both uncomfortably exotified as well as in a way that cheapened the cultural concepts that it took. I read those older edition supplements and it made me, as an Asian person, feel uncomfortable in many ways. Now, WOTC has reduced the things that make the class uncomfortable in many ways, distancing the class from its weird and uncomfortable roots, but the community still holds onto a lot of those old tropes. Orientalism, if you didn't know, is when non-Asians will try and make something look or feel Asian by using generally a mishmash of stereotypes and tropes that demonstrate a lack of understanding and appreciation of the culture. It's something that people will use sometimes without knowing how uncomfortable it can be, sometimes in subtle ways that make it hard to point out.
I met an Asian man who played an Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Monk and he liked the class.
Have you ever heard the phrase "some of my best friends are ...?" It's sometimes used by people who are trying to prove how not bigoted they are because they happen to have friends who are a minority. One example of one person who says they are comfortable with something doesn't prove or disprove much of anything. I am Asian. I find the stereotypical and tropey way the monk class was portrayed in older material to be very uncomfortable. Despite that, I still actually like the class. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore it's uncomfortable history.
I didn’t think from what I read at a teen about oriental adventures was that bad for the time.
Ok, well I do. And I'm a part of the community from whose culture that supplement took inspiration .. well took something anyway. The time period from which is came only explains the ignorance of the writers at the time, it does not excuse it.
I think DnD Monk should stay rooted in Asian martial arts where it sprang.
And I think it absolutely should not, for a few reasons: 1) No class should be linked only to one culture, all classes should be able to be flexible enough to support characters from any cultural inspiration 2) Fictional character classes should mostly not be linked to real life cultures at all, at least not so strongly and not so narrowly as the monk was, I don't want D&D writers to have to be experts in real life culture in order to write their material, but they would have to be in order not to cheapen the material with harmful stereotypes 3) There are so many traditions of martial arts from around the world and to keep the monk class so narrow would be to miss the opportunity to explore inspiration from those 4) D&D is a game first and foremost, it is not meant to simulate real life, in translating ideas into a game format you would inevitably lose much of any sort of deeper meaning and spirituality and this would cheapen and demean that traditions. A game is not the place to do justice to that.
Because its a lifestyle not just a hobby.
Yes I know. I also practice. And I don't expect, nor do I want, to try and learn spirituality from D&D. That is not the place for it. It is damaging for both activities to try and combine them like that.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Canto alla vita alla sua bellezza ad ogni sua ferita ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
Honestly I kind of agree with the OP. I don't particularly care for monks subclasses being "Warrior of ..." but it also doesn't bother me overly much. I think they could have kept the Way title and still distanced monk from the weird and offensive Orientalist roots. I think the idea of an esoteric style of fighting can be generalized. But again, it doesn't really bother me much.
I’m not sure what you mean by weird and offensive Orientalist roots
I'm talking about how when the monk class was created, it was explicitly linked to Asian cultures in a way that was both uncomfortably exotified as well as in a way that cheapened the cultural concepts that it took. I read those older edition supplements and it made me, as an Asian person, feel uncomfortable in many ways. Now, WOTC has reduced the things that make the class uncomfortable in many ways, distancing the class from its weird and uncomfortable roots, but the community still holds onto a lot of those old tropes. Orientalism, if you didn't know, is when non-Asians will try and make something look or feel Asian by using generally a mishmash of stereotypes and tropes that demonstrate a lack of understanding and appreciation of the culture. It's something that people will use sometimes without knowing how uncomfortable it can be, sometimes in subtle ways that make it hard to point out.
I met an Asian man who played an Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Monk and he liked the class.
Have you ever heard the phrase "some of my best friends are ...?" It's sometimes used by people who are trying to prove how not bigoted they are because they happen to have friends who are a minority. One example of one person who says they are comfortable with something doesn't prove or disprove much of anything. I am Asian. I find the stereotypical and tropey way the monk class was portrayed in older material to be very uncomfortable. Despite that, I still actually like the class. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore it's uncomfortable history.
I didn’t think from what I read at a teen about oriental adventures was that bad for the time.
Ok, well I do. And I'm a part of the community from whose culture that supplement took inspiration .. well took something anyway. The time period from which is came only explains the ignorance of the writers at the time, it does not excuse it.
I think DnD Monk should stay rooted in Asian martial arts where it sprang.
And I think it absolutely should not, for a few reasons: 1) No class should be linked only to one culture, all classes should be able to be flexible enough to support characters from any cultural inspiration 2) Fictional character classes should mostly not be linked to real life cultures at all, at least not so strongly and not so narrowly as the monk was, I don't want D&D writers to have to be experts in real life culture in order to write their material, but they would have to be in order not to cheapen the material with harmful stereotypes 3) There are so many traditions of martial arts from around the world and to keep the monk class so narrow would be to miss the opportunity to explore inspiration from those 4) D&D is a game first and foremost, it is not meant to simulate real life, in translating ideas into a game format you would inevitably lose much of any sort of deeper meaning and spirituality and this would cheapen and demean that traditions. A game is not the place to do justice to that.
Because its a lifestyle not just a hobby.
Yes I know. I also practice. And I don't expect, nor do I want, to try and learn spirituality from D&D. That is not the place for it. It is damaging for both activities to try and combine them like that.
First things first I knew it was a trap after I said cringe in my previous comment, just so you can unpack it for the unenlightened masses like myself. I'm not an orientalist, my father loved his Chinese food, language, Asian Art as he was stationed in Japan during his enlistment. First I don't preconceive and come to a conclusion, I observe with impartiality as best I can. Buddha has too deep of a culture to be understood from western oriented perspective. And yes the Asian man, is a real person and he is a very intelligent person if he can play AD&D. I mostly read the weapons in Oriental Adventures, to be honest the book was so weird I could not even read very much at the time, and yes it did make me cringe. I like the use of an alter ego personified as a fantasy Monk who has found his Enlightenment even if I have not found my own. The lack of attention, is a problem in this day and age, so mindfulness has come to the forefront, and a well written book like the PH can help. We don't live as isolate ego's we are all intertwined in projections, the ego is a process and interdependent like anything else, so I try to be impersonal with my thoughts when possible.
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I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.
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I hate this framing of the monks. Why are barbarians walking a monk path while monks are fighting wars? Where has logic gone?
"Path" has been the descriptor on Barbarian Subclasses for all of 5th Edition. "Warrior" has been a catch-all for characters skilled at fighting for at least a couple D&D editions.
Ultimately the design choice has been to move Monk-as-class away from Kung -Fu Movie archetypes and more towards Character who primarily fights things unarmed and unarmored. You're free to add whatever flavor you want on it back if you want.
🎵I'm on top of the world, looking down on creation, wreaking death and devastation with my mind.
As the power that I've found erupts freely from the ground, I will cackle from the top of the world.🎵
Charisma Saving Throw: DC 18, Failure: 20d6 Psychic Damage, Success: Half damage
Doesn’t bother me. I hardly ever used Way of… anyway. It’s always been and will continue to be Open Hand Monk, Shadow Monk, Elements Monk, Mercy Monk, etc..
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
A different question might be “focus points from?” How do you conceptualize the power of a monk coming from. Life force, essence, self. For me it comes from a quality of mind call impartial nonjudgemental awareness, Simply being with the dexterity based body and mind, without having to react. This is an example of the quality of meditation that monks carry.
I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.
Interesting idea.
There can be a variety of ways to conceptualize focus points depending on the character concept. I don’t have just one way of looking at it. One character it could just be force of will while another spiritual enlightenment and on another tapping into the forces of the Weave as almost another aspect of magic. Just depends on what type of character you want to play.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
I couldn't care less about the names. They're just labels for a chassis. People get way too caught up on the name of a class, ability, subtype etc
Any time an unfathomably powerful entity sweeps in and offers godlike rewards in return for just a few teensy favors, it’s a scam. Unless it’s me. I’d never lie to you, reader dearest.
Tasha
Funny how a word that can have different meanings and can be used to argue against or for something. To me Focus is more about, you know, focusing on a thing. Focus on the task at hand, focus your attention, or focusing your energy toward something. I don’t know how it is used in Wuxia, anime, or MA fiction as that’s not my thing. I did watch 70’s kung-fu movies and the TV show with David Carradine, and Jackie Chan movies. And I took Kenpo Karate while I was in junior high and high school but that’s as far as it went. But that was 35+ years ago
And I believe one of The Asians Represent Podcast on YouTube had the exact opposite reaction as you and felt Discipline points was just as problematic as you see Focus Points.
I don’t think any term WotC came up with would have satisfied everyone. And I prefer Focus to Discipline because it’s easier to say.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Without Buddha, mindfulness or focus would not be a practice in its self, no Shaolin Monk's, and the psychodynamics of mediation would be unknown to the west. I can't separate the body from the mind it makes no sense to me, I feel emotions physically and inwardly, and a drifting mind can leave me mindless while I'm doing something else. Even in Forgotten Realms they have room for Enlightenment and the Yellow Rose Monastery. Limbo does sound a lot like my mind at times. Staying in the present moment can cause me to be interested in anxiety when it arises and surrounding it with the patience of the Buddha can help any Monk.
I liked discipline points when it came out, then I liked focus points when they arrived.
I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.
Tapping into the Weave would not be a good concept. The question on whether Monks used a form of "magic" to produce their Ki powered abilities, that made them subject to Anti-magic had apparently been issue of contention. The UA deliberately removed the word, "magic", from the Monk's description and kept it off in the 2024 PHB.
I don't know if that is entirely true. Mindfulness was a thing a thousand or more years before Buddhism, under Hinduism. Some form of mindfulness as a religion or discipline would have likely branched out to people outside of India.
I think it can be a perfectly good concept if that is a type of character you want to play. I don’t intend that to be the only way to conceptualize focus points. Just one of a thousand different ways. And tapping into the weave could be no different that dragons being magical yet not a magical effect that an anti magic field would negate.
it’s about concept not mechanics.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
WOTC and designers just trying to hard to not walk on eggshells without breaking them, with their beliefs of choice of labels. And people are caring to about their choices. Big deal of their choices, not going to change the mechanics or game style. For all I care, the could have called them goosebumps fodder for you to spend instead of focus points. Great, dm I’m spending a FP Toto stun. No change to game play. Stop the silliness of what people decide.
Without Buddha it would not be codified and developed to its logical conclusion. it would not be known in the west in particular the attentional strategy of bare attention of impartiality that was identified by Freud and practiced by Buddhist for a millennia that came to DnD in the form of focus. Because focus is a problem in this day and age. No Buddha no focus. Meditation has infiltrated DnD and the designers know that is a good thing. Look up Limbo in the dmg.
I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.
I use to conceptualize ki as magic as a OH Monk, but the new PH has clarified and given me new purpose with repeated emphasis on mindfulness, it is so much better written that I naturally focus better. The PH is a great read, challenging enough to develop mindfulness, not dry enough for boredom, clear as any Buddhist writer worth reading. Monks by nature need to be lawful for discipline and impartial as a great GM. Magical and fun, the new Monk is a welcome addition to any party that needs to worry about shenanigans , I think we should push for more Monks.
I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.
Honestly I kind of agree with the OP. I don't particularly care for monks subclasses being "Warrior of ..." but it also doesn't bother me overly much. I think they could have kept the Way title and still distanced monk from the weird and offensive Orientalist roots. I think the idea of an esoteric style of fighting can be generalized. But again, it doesn't really bother me much.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
I’m not sure what you mean by weird and offensive Orientalist roots, I met an Asian man who played an Advanced Dungeons and Dragons Monk and he liked the class. I didn’t think from what I read at a teen about oriental adventures was that bad for the time. DnD acknowledges that it is always evolving and not devolving in social issues. Looking back on some of the material makes me cringe. I think DnD Monk should stay rooted in Asian martial arts where it sprang. Quivering palm has been a tradition, and now expanded to tai chi in the OH Monk subclass. Because its a lifestyle not just a hobby.
I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.
I like the Disciple of idea.
I don’t know about discipline not being an innate element of the class. It’s their discipline of mind and body that allows them to move at higher speeds than any other class. Allows them to hit harder with both weapons and unarmed than any other class with the same weapon. Allows them to fall with reduced damage or taking no damage at all, etc.
EZD6 by DM Scotty
https://www.drivethrurpg.com/en/product/397599/EZD6-Core-Rulebook?
Discipline is also expressed through a Monks lawful alignment, I tend to be LN, because I value the discipline of mind called impartiality, not necessarily love as the highest value, which puts me at odds with society. This quality of mind is innate to awareness, but it’s a bit scary so most people avoid it. I like the alignment tables, for possible values for behavior.
I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.
I'm talking about how when the monk class was created, it was explicitly linked to Asian cultures in a way that was both uncomfortably exotified as well as in a way that cheapened the cultural concepts that it took. I read those older edition supplements and it made me, as an Asian person, feel uncomfortable in many ways. Now, WOTC has reduced the things that make the class uncomfortable in many ways, distancing the class from its weird and uncomfortable roots, but the community still holds onto a lot of those old tropes. Orientalism, if you didn't know, is when non-Asians will try and make something look or feel Asian by using generally a mishmash of stereotypes and tropes that demonstrate a lack of understanding and appreciation of the culture. It's something that people will use sometimes without knowing how uncomfortable it can be, sometimes in subtle ways that make it hard to point out.
Have you ever heard the phrase "some of my best friends are ...?" It's sometimes used by people who are trying to prove how not bigoted they are because they happen to have friends who are a minority. One example of one person who says they are comfortable with something doesn't prove or disprove much of anything. I am Asian. I find the stereotypical and tropey way the monk class was portrayed in older material to be very uncomfortable. Despite that, I still actually like the class. That doesn't mean I'm going to ignore it's uncomfortable history.
Ok, well I do. And I'm a part of the community from whose culture that supplement took inspiration .. well took something anyway. The time period from which is came only explains the ignorance of the writers at the time, it does not excuse it.
And I think it absolutely should not, for a few reasons:
1) No class should be linked only to one culture, all classes should be able to be flexible enough to support characters from any cultural inspiration
2) Fictional character classes should mostly not be linked to real life cultures at all, at least not so strongly and not so narrowly as the monk was, I don't want D&D writers to have to be experts in real life culture in order to write their material, but they would have to be in order not to cheapen the material with harmful stereotypes
3) There are so many traditions of martial arts from around the world and to keep the monk class so narrow would be to miss the opportunity to explore inspiration from those
4) D&D is a game first and foremost, it is not meant to simulate real life, in translating ideas into a game format you would inevitably lose much of any sort of deeper meaning and spirituality and this would cheapen and demean that traditions. A game is not the place to do justice to that.
Yes I know. I also practice. And I don't expect, nor do I want, to try and learn spirituality from D&D. That is not the place for it. It is damaging for both activities to try and combine them like that.
Canto alla vita
alla sua bellezza
ad ogni sua ferita
ogni sua carezza!
I sing to life and to its tragic beauty
To pain and to strife, but all that dances through me
The rise and the fall, I've lived through it all!
First things first I knew it was a trap after I said cringe in my previous comment, just so you can unpack it for the unenlightened masses like myself. I'm not an orientalist, my father loved his Chinese food, language, Asian Art as he was stationed in Japan during his enlistment. First I don't preconceive and come to a conclusion, I observe with impartiality as best I can. Buddha has too deep of a culture to be understood from western oriented perspective. And yes the Asian man, is a real person and he is a very intelligent person if he can play AD&D. I mostly read the weapons in Oriental Adventures, to be honest the book was so weird I could not even read very much at the time, and yes it did make me cringe. I like the use of an alter ego personified as a fantasy Monk who has found his Enlightenment even if I have not found my own. The lack of attention, is a problem in this day and age, so mindfulness has come to the forefront, and a well written book like the PH can help. We don't live as isolate ego's we are all intertwined in projections, the ego is a process and interdependent like anything else, so I try to be impersonal with my thoughts when possible.
I love the new app, I can teach the combat system over a few days, as I am a good teacher.