Recently been thinking about Monks a lot and one of the more regular criticisms is that they lack the "martial artsy" feel that should be core to the class. I also was thinking about this in context of new feats like Metamagic Adept, Eldritch Adept, Fighting Initiate, and (not new) Martial Adept.
Currently all Monks get the exact same three options for using ki at level two: Flurry of Blows (BA extra attacks), Step of the Wind (BA dash/disengage), and Patient Defense (BA dodge). Why not offer more of these options and only allow a few to be selected at a time (probably swapping out on short rest)?
With this method you could potentially swap out some of the Tasha's optional features and make them "Ki Ability" options instead, like Ki-Fueled Attack, Quickened Healing, or Focused Aim.
Some ideas (bad with names so just descriptions here) that I've either picked up from elsewhere or thought up myself:
Spend 1 ki as a reaction to being attacked to attempt a counterattack if the incoming attack misses.
Spend 1 ki as a reaction to reduce damage by x (basically a universal Deflect Missiles at ki cost).
Spend 1 ki as a bonus action to attempt a grapple using DEX or WIS instead of STR (perhaps without reducing movement speed for the current turn, to make extra cost worthwhile?).
Spend 1 ki as a bonus action to Ready an Action, as long as the readied action is an attack of some kind.
That's four more options (given, some of them need work), alongside the original three, and three more optional features from TCE, giving 10 options to help your Monk operate the way you envision.
Anyways, just some thoughts that could lead to more niche variants of Monks that are capable of more unique playstyles. Given the ubiquity of FOB, probably just giving that for free is worthwhile, and then offering players to choose a number of other options equal to Proficiency each Short Rest is balanced as well.
Just a thought to give Monks a little more love, and also allow for some kind of "Ki Initiate" feat that would not only be useful for other martials but also very useful for Monks who otherwise are pretty lacking in useful feats beyond Mobile.
All good ideas and tidbits that add to a home brew.. but keep in mind that all Monks get the three base abilities for Ki Points, PLUS stunning strike option ontop of anything available to their subclass. Monks also dont have to pick and choose like Battlemaster maneuvers or Metamagic points, AND they come back on a short rest.
For a homebrew game i was in previously, the DM gave our two monks a few ki abilities unique to each other to differentjate them. One could use their Reaction and 1 ki point to force a creature to make a Dex save after missing an attack to knock them prone (monk Wis DC), and the other monk specialized in thrown weapons and could use a Ki Point to teleport directly next to his target after having thrown the weapon.
Lots of flavorful homebrew things you can do with Ki points, but make sure they are balanced... Monks dont need it, but its fun to add
The Flavor Your looking for is in the Sub Classes for the monk. They are what give you vastly different ways to use your Ki and be a martial artist. Your actually making the class a lot more complex when it already has a lot of issues with a lot of demands upon it. And there are subclasses that do at least part of the things that your suggesting which if they chose those it would be redundant. And most classes can't easily just switch out their optional features. they are either at level up or they are permanent. So that's something to keep in mind as well.
But a lot of what makes a monk Martial Artsy feeling is actually on us as the player. If we simply say "I attack" then your right. there isn't a lot of martial arts. But if you roll the dice and based upon them you say something like. "My Martial artist unleashes three rapid kicks as I run up the ogre and then brings it's fist down into the ogre's face." You suddenly have created much of the feel of that unarmed bad ass that most people picture when they see martial artists.
I agree with the OP that it would be nice to add more customizability to the base Monk class. However, there are some difficulties you're going to run up against:
* The current Monks are already difficult for beginners to the game to play. Without any min-maxxing of race-class features, a lot of low level Monks get knocked unconscious or killed, esp. if the party they are in lacks a better tank-type. Low level Monks don't need custom options as much as they need more hit points and more Ki.
* Spending 1 Ki to make 1 counterattack is not good for the Monk's resource economy because they have limited Ki and Monks are the melee class LEAST likely to get fancy magic weapons from the loot pile and don't use great axes or great swords.
* The main issue with customizing Monks is that they are the Only class in D&D 5e that uses the Ki resource. It's therefore tricky to greatly expand Monk options so that they benefit as much as Rangers or Paladins often do from multi-classing. This is because spell slots are common to many classes and sub-classes.
I agree with the OP that it would be nice to add more customizability to the base Monk class. However, there are some difficulties you're going to run up against:
* The current Monks are already difficult for beginners to the game to play. Without any min-maxxing of race-class features, a lot of low level Monks get knocked unconscious or killed, esp. if the party they are in lacks a better tank-type. Low level Monks don't need custom options as much as they need more hit points and more Ki.
* Spending 1 Ki to make 1 counterattack is not good for the Monk's resource economy because they have limited Ki and Monks are the melee class LEAST likely to get fancy magic weapons from the loot pile and don't use great axes or great swords.
* The main issue with customizing Monks is that they are the Only class in D&D 5e that uses the Ki resource. It's therefore tricky to greatly expand Monk options so that they benefit as much as Rangers or Paladins often do from multi-classing. This is because spell slots are common to many classes and sub-classes.
1) Agreed partially, though I'd argue irrelevant to this topic. No reason both things cannot be fixed... and I think simply giving Monks a d10 hit dice solves the problem entirely. (At low levels, they could easily have as high or higher AC than even their tankier partymates.) Also disagree that Monks are difficult for beginner players -- they literally need minimal gear, so none of the purchasing new armor/new weaponry hubbub, and they are mechanically pretty simple. Really only Barbarians and Rogues and Fighters are more simple, and I'd argue Barbarians and Rogues are a pretty even wash (given minor complexities of what Rage does/what triggers Sneak Attack vs simplicity of "punch, just more than normal").
2) The idea is partially to get Monks out of the "all Stunning Strike all the time" mold. Maybe having a ki cost for this one is too heavy, but I like it as being super thematic to a master martial artist -- take a misstep from your enemy and turn it into an opportunity to attack them. But also getting an extra attack per round is pretty big, even if it isn't from a magical weapon.
3) Part of the rationale I have for this would be to incentivize MCing INTO Monk more. These would essentially be Battlemaster-like abilities for the cost of only two levels rather than three. Additionally, it allows the "MC-lite" feats that are becoming super prevalent. Also having a feat tied to these would allow for more ki to be available to the Monk (I'd imagine something like, pick two Martial Arts maneuvers and gain 3 ki/short rest) which would benefit from Monks taking it as much as anyone, which helps solve the lacking-in-ki issue.
1) Agreed partially, though I'd argue irrelevant to this topic. No reason both things cannot be fixed... and I think simply giving Monks a d10 hit dice solves the problem entirely. (At low levels, they could easily have as high or higher AC than even their tankier partymates.) Also disagree that Monks are difficult for beginner players -- they literally need minimal gear, so none of the purchasing new armor/new weaponry hubbub, and they are mechanically pretty simple. Really only Barbarians and Rogues and Fighters are more simple, and I'd argue Barbarians and Rogues are a pretty even wash (given minor complexities of what Rage does/what triggers Sneak Attack vs simplicity of "punch, just more than normal").
2) The idea is partially to get Monks out of the "all Stunning Strike all the time" mold. Maybe having a ki cost for this one is too heavy, but I like it as being super thematic to a master martial artist -- take a misstep from your enemy and turn it into an opportunity to attack them. But also getting an extra attack per round is pretty big, even if it isn't from a magical weapon.
3) Part of the rationale I have for this would be to incentivize MCing INTO Monk more. These would essentially be Battlemaster-like abilities for the cost of only two levels rather than three. Additionally, it allows the "MC-lite" feats that are becoming super prevalent. Also having a feat tied to these would allow for more ki to be available to the Monk (I'd imagine something like, pick two Martial Arts maneuvers and gain 3 ki/short rest) which would benefit from Monks taking it as much as anyone, which helps solve the lacking-in-ki issue.
Increasing customizability does make a PC harder to build, though. I've played with greenhorn players who had trouble building an effective Warlock, for goodness' sake. Too many options, esp. at low levels causes confusion. I'm not saying that more options are Bad, just that they add complexity to the class.
Buying gear isn't complicated for most classes (a few exceptions exist, like the Thief Rogue). The issue is when to use Step of the Wind vs. Patient Defense vs. Flurry of Blows. A seasoned D&D player has no trouble with that, but people new to the Monk easily get ganked b/c they Flurry when they should have Defended. I've made that mistake myself as an early Monk player.
The "spending Ki to make an attack on the opponent's turn" is already done by the Drunken Master subclass. In that version, it automatically hits, no attack roll needed, which somewhat justifies spending 1 Ki on it. Rolling to attack with a 1d4 or a 1d8 possible damage by spending 1 Ki? No thank you.
I think we would be better served by A) having more Feats which work well for Monks, something that Great Weapon Master or Heavy Armor Master, but that don't require use of a heavy weapon or armor; and B) an additional ASI, since Monks depend so much on maxxing out DEX and WIS to get high AC.
Some ideas (bad with names so just descriptions here) that I've either picked up from elsewhere or thought up myself:
Spend 1 ki as a reaction to being attacked to attempt a counterattack if the incoming attack misses.
What would be better, IMO, would be to spend 1 Ki to change the critical hit range from 20=crit to 18-20=crit, done after you have already rolled your dice. That way, a Monk-Rogue multi-class becomes more viable.
What would be better, IMO, would be to spend 1 Ki to change the critical hit range from 20=crit to 18-20=crit, done after you have already rolled your dice. That way, a Monk-Rogue multi-class becomes more viable.
I think that goes the other way, with a rule like that a crit fishing monk would be way OP. The way the monk is set up is it is hard to multiclass but I am fine with that.
However if did want to make monks more viable as a multiclass you could do something like give them a ki point for every 2 levels in other classes. Alternatively allow some sort of swapping between ki and spell slots but that would always be homebrew as I can't see wizards bringing out a feature exclusively for multiclass.
The complications to building monks is not in the gear. It's in the stats and in the resource management that trips up a lot of starting players. They don't know how to match up stats to the type of monk they are playing. And thanks to the attitudes that a lot of the community takes. Many new players don't even know or understand that there is more than one way to build a monk even within the major stats that they need to focus on or that there is more than one way to use them. Guides don't address that and don't really explain the intracacies of the monk. They just pull an air of authority and go "this is how you stat yourself and this is what you use or you suck" Most of the time. And they are often half wrong about how they do it. The monk can work their way but it's not really going to get everything out of the monk that might be possible. Which helps create the perception that the monk class has amongst much of the Community and only a very small portion of the community (including some of the guide makers) actually plays the class to learn the intracacies even to the point of exactly how different some of the subclasses play and the strength behind some of them. They just puppet what they've heard elsewhere every time the subject comes up.
Fighters, and Barbarians, and Rogues are easy to build because not only do they make Equipment mostly easy (even with their varieties) but they also make stat placement easy to understand and utilize as well as being better explained by the community as to why something might be a viable or even strong choice and it's weaknesses.
Also, some monks that are are trying to stun all the time may not be the best to be trying to stun all the time. They are wasting ki trying to do it that they could better spend elsewhere. But it's just so alluring and so easy to understand and the one thing that many people latch onto as their fix for all of the problems they are experiencing with the way they are attempting to play with the monk they see it as mandatory.
And the solution is simple. If you want battle master like abilities. Don't be MC'ing into Monk. Go into Battle master. That's what it's there for. That's why it's easy to get into. And even if monk did have something like that. Fighter into Battle Master would still be easier to meet the requirements than Monk would be. And you'll get more uses out of it than you'll get out of Just a couple levels of monk, To the point that they can be something that even a monk could multi-class into if they wanted to very easily.
You get 3 moves and 4 dice going battle master. That's always going to be more efficient than a couple of a dozen different options and only 2 or 3 ki points to use them. And if your interested in throwing things not only can you pick up a fighting style for it. But you can pick up a battle master maneuver for it as well, which is going to be a very rare bonus action attack that doesn't require you to take the attack action first on top of it. And that's just one of the synergies going after battle master for such a thing presents that the monk will never have even if you get a shopping list of ki options.
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Recently been thinking about Monks a lot and one of the more regular criticisms is that they lack the "martial artsy" feel that should be core to the class. I also was thinking about this in context of new feats like Metamagic Adept, Eldritch Adept, Fighting Initiate, and (not new) Martial Adept.
Currently all Monks get the exact same three options for using ki at level two: Flurry of Blows (BA extra attacks), Step of the Wind (BA dash/disengage), and Patient Defense (BA dodge). Why not offer more of these options and only allow a few to be selected at a time (probably swapping out on short rest)?
With this method you could potentially swap out some of the Tasha's optional features and make them "Ki Ability" options instead, like Ki-Fueled Attack, Quickened Healing, or Focused Aim.
Some ideas (bad with names so just descriptions here) that I've either picked up from elsewhere or thought up myself:
That's four more options (given, some of them need work), alongside the original three, and three more optional features from TCE, giving 10 options to help your Monk operate the way you envision.
Anyways, just some thoughts that could lead to more niche variants of Monks that are capable of more unique playstyles. Given the ubiquity of FOB, probably just giving that for free is worthwhile, and then offering players to choose a number of other options equal to Proficiency each Short Rest is balanced as well.
Just a thought to give Monks a little more love, and also allow for some kind of "Ki Initiate" feat that would not only be useful for other martials but also very useful for Monks who otherwise are pretty lacking in useful feats beyond Mobile.
All good ideas and tidbits that add to a home brew.. but keep in mind that all Monks get the three base abilities for Ki Points, PLUS stunning strike option ontop of anything available to their subclass. Monks also dont have to pick and choose like Battlemaster maneuvers or Metamagic points, AND they come back on a short rest.
For a homebrew game i was in previously, the DM gave our two monks a few ki abilities unique to each other to differentjate them. One could use their Reaction and 1 ki point to force a creature to make a Dex save after missing an attack to knock them prone (monk Wis DC), and the other monk specialized in thrown weapons and could use a Ki Point to teleport directly next to his target after having thrown the weapon.
Lots of flavorful homebrew things you can do with Ki points, but make sure they are balanced... Monks dont need it, but its fun to add
The Flavor Your looking for is in the Sub Classes for the monk. They are what give you vastly different ways to use your Ki and be a martial artist. Your actually making the class a lot more complex when it already has a lot of issues with a lot of demands upon it. And there are subclasses that do at least part of the things that your suggesting which if they chose those it would be redundant. And most classes can't easily just switch out their optional features. they are either at level up or they are permanent. So that's something to keep in mind as well.
But a lot of what makes a monk Martial Artsy feeling is actually on us as the player. If we simply say "I attack" then your right. there isn't a lot of martial arts. But if you roll the dice and based upon them you say something like. "My Martial artist unleashes three rapid kicks as I run up the ogre and then brings it's fist down into the ogre's face." You suddenly have created much of the feel of that unarmed bad ass that most people picture when they see martial artists.
I agree with the OP that it would be nice to add more customizability to the base Monk class. However, there are some difficulties you're going to run up against:
* The current Monks are already difficult for beginners to the game to play. Without any min-maxxing of race-class features, a lot of low level Monks get knocked unconscious or killed, esp. if the party they are in lacks a better tank-type. Low level Monks don't need custom options as much as they need more hit points and more Ki.
* Spending 1 Ki to make 1 counterattack is not good for the Monk's resource economy because they have limited Ki and Monks are the melee class LEAST likely to get fancy magic weapons from the loot pile and don't use great axes or great swords.
* The main issue with customizing Monks is that they are the Only class in D&D 5e that uses the Ki resource. It's therefore tricky to greatly expand Monk options so that they benefit as much as Rangers or Paladins often do from multi-classing. This is because spell slots are common to many classes and sub-classes.
1) Agreed partially, though I'd argue irrelevant to this topic. No reason both things cannot be fixed... and I think simply giving Monks a d10 hit dice solves the problem entirely. (At low levels, they could easily have as high or higher AC than even their tankier partymates.) Also disagree that Monks are difficult for beginner players -- they literally need minimal gear, so none of the purchasing new armor/new weaponry hubbub, and they are mechanically pretty simple. Really only Barbarians and Rogues and Fighters are more simple, and I'd argue Barbarians and Rogues are a pretty even wash (given minor complexities of what Rage does/what triggers Sneak Attack vs simplicity of "punch, just more than normal").
2) The idea is partially to get Monks out of the "all Stunning Strike all the time" mold. Maybe having a ki cost for this one is too heavy, but I like it as being super thematic to a master martial artist -- take a misstep from your enemy and turn it into an opportunity to attack them. But also getting an extra attack per round is pretty big, even if it isn't from a magical weapon.
3) Part of the rationale I have for this would be to incentivize MCing INTO Monk more. These would essentially be Battlemaster-like abilities for the cost of only two levels rather than three. Additionally, it allows the "MC-lite" feats that are becoming super prevalent. Also having a feat tied to these would allow for more ki to be available to the Monk (I'd imagine something like, pick two Martial Arts maneuvers and gain 3 ki/short rest) which would benefit from Monks taking it as much as anyone, which helps solve the lacking-in-ki issue.
Increasing customizability does make a PC harder to build, though. I've played with greenhorn players who had trouble building an effective Warlock, for goodness' sake. Too many options, esp. at low levels causes confusion. I'm not saying that more options are Bad, just that they add complexity to the class.
Buying gear isn't complicated for most classes (a few exceptions exist, like the Thief Rogue). The issue is when to use Step of the Wind vs. Patient Defense vs. Flurry of Blows. A seasoned D&D player has no trouble with that, but people new to the Monk easily get ganked b/c they Flurry when they should have Defended. I've made that mistake myself as an early Monk player.
The "spending Ki to make an attack on the opponent's turn" is already done by the Drunken Master subclass. In that version, it automatically hits, no attack roll needed, which somewhat justifies spending 1 Ki on it. Rolling to attack with a 1d4 or a 1d8 possible damage by spending 1 Ki? No thank you.
I think we would be better served by A) having more Feats which work well for Monks, something that Great Weapon Master or Heavy Armor Master, but that don't require use of a heavy weapon or armor; and B) an additional ASI, since Monks depend so much on maxxing out DEX and WIS to get high AC.
What would be better, IMO, would be to spend 1 Ki to change the critical hit range from 20=crit to 18-20=crit, done after you have already rolled your dice. That way, a Monk-Rogue multi-class becomes more viable.
I think that goes the other way, with a rule like that a crit fishing monk would be way OP. The way the monk is set up is it is hard to multiclass but I am fine with that.
However if did want to make monks more viable as a multiclass you could do something like give them a ki point for every 2 levels in other classes. Alternatively allow some sort of swapping between ki and spell slots but that would always be homebrew as I can't see wizards bringing out a feature exclusively for multiclass.
The complications to building monks is not in the gear. It's in the stats and in the resource management that trips up a lot of starting players. They don't know how to match up stats to the type of monk they are playing. And thanks to the attitudes that a lot of the community takes. Many new players don't even know or understand that there is more than one way to build a monk even within the major stats that they need to focus on or that there is more than one way to use them. Guides don't address that and don't really explain the intracacies of the monk. They just pull an air of authority and go "this is how you stat yourself and this is what you use or you suck" Most of the time. And they are often half wrong about how they do it. The monk can work their way but it's not really going to get everything out of the monk that might be possible. Which helps create the perception that the monk class has amongst much of the Community and only a very small portion of the community (including some of the guide makers) actually plays the class to learn the intracacies even to the point of exactly how different some of the subclasses play and the strength behind some of them. They just puppet what they've heard elsewhere every time the subject comes up.
Fighters, and Barbarians, and Rogues are easy to build because not only do they make Equipment mostly easy (even with their varieties) but they also make stat placement easy to understand and utilize as well as being better explained by the community as to why something might be a viable or even strong choice and it's weaknesses.
Also, some monks that are are trying to stun all the time may not be the best to be trying to stun all the time. They are wasting ki trying to do it that they could better spend elsewhere. But it's just so alluring and so easy to understand and the one thing that many people latch onto as their fix for all of the problems they are experiencing with the way they are attempting to play with the monk they see it as mandatory.
And the solution is simple. If you want battle master like abilities. Don't be MC'ing into Monk. Go into Battle master. That's what it's there for. That's why it's easy to get into. And even if monk did have something like that. Fighter into Battle Master would still be easier to meet the requirements than Monk would be. And you'll get more uses out of it than you'll get out of Just a couple levels of monk, To the point that they can be something that even a monk could multi-class into if they wanted to very easily.
You get 3 moves and 4 dice going battle master. That's always going to be more efficient than a couple of a dozen different options and only 2 or 3 ki points to use them. And if your interested in throwing things not only can you pick up a fighting style for it. But you can pick up a battle master maneuver for it as well, which is going to be a very rare bonus action attack that doesn't require you to take the attack action first on top of it. And that's just one of the synergies going after battle master for such a thing presents that the monk will never have even if you get a shopping list of ki options.