I have a strong hankering to combine Find Steed with a Longbow and I don't want to be a bard. A real Prince Ashitaka vibe that can tear enemies down at range atop his trusty steed while still being incredibly dangerous in melee thanks to smites.
How would you do it?
"But Zot, Paladin's don't get archery fighting style." - yeah, but how'd'ya do it?
"But Zot, Smites only work in melee" - yeah, but how'd'ya do it?
"But Zot, Paladins want to be close to their allies because of auras and stuff" - yeah, but how'd'ya it?
I'd go with either devotion or glory. Devotion's channel divinity can offset the accuracy penalty you get with sharpshooter, which looks like a must-have if you really want to go into the archer build. Glory just looks like it'd help with kiting enemies with your steed via your speed aura, and getting more hits in with haste. While vengeance looks like an obvious choice, you do have to be within 10ft of your target to use vow of enmity.
Now, another thing I might consider is *drum roll* HEXBLADE, TA DAHHH! 3 levels and you get pact of the blade and the invocation improved pact weapon so you can use a longbow with CHA too. Perhaps a thing to consider is that since you're attacking with a pact longbow, you can smite via your arrows if you take the eldritch smite invocation at lvl 5 hexblade, and since you're attacking with a longbow, it kinda opens up more invocations since you don't have to take anything related to eldritch blast. you could take mask of many faces, improved pact weapon, and eldritch smite, for example. none of them gotta be agonizing blast, isn't that nice? Kinda-sorta suits the whole princess mononoke ashitaka thing too since there's some voodoo going on with his freaky arm and all.
Still, 3 to 5 levels is quite a hefy investment when you could just increase DEX instead as a regular paladin, and I personally would go down that road if only to say I'm hip and cool.
I'd go something like, v.human starting with 16 DEX & CHA, SS or fighting initiate to grab archery fighting style if you don't want to cause a power disparity so soon in your campaign, grab blessed warrior fighting style at 2 for access to light cantrip since humans can't see good in dark, go devotion at 3, and at 4 grab the feat you didn't take from creation to come online the soonest possible and fulfill that archer paladin fantasy right away. at 8 and 12 you can cap out your DEX, though you might not feel much pressure to do so since at lvl 4 you're cancelling out the accuracy penalty entirely from SS thanks to archery fighting style and the +3 from your channel divnity.
I've certainly thought about the warlock angle in terms of building Ashitaka, but I don't need or really want this character to be an exact replica. He's more of just a starting point for inspiration. It's a multiclass I'd certainly entertain if starting at higher levels, but I don't love how much it distracts from the paladin levels. Unlocking extra attack and find steed in a timely manner are things I value highly. Still, an option worth considering for sure. I kind of like it on a dex based build as a multiclass after level 6/7 of paladin.
As much as I'm loathe to do this kind of thing on extra attack builds, how do you feel about starting with one level dip in fighter? This character is definitely going to be V human, so I like being able to start with Archery FS and Sharpshooter at one. Divine Favor will be a regular part of the routine, so con save proficiency will be nice since this will be more of a switch-hitter build and not a completely dedicated archer. It would be super nice to stick to a single-class paladin and not have to worry about strength at all. Not to mention unlocking everything at the earliest level. I'm torn.
Your Oath options make a lot of sense. I was also looking at Ancients since I could use Ensnaring Strike on Bow shots. Glory is super fun for even more mount speed. I wish I liked Devotion more. Not sure how I feel about taking an action off to buff myself like that.
Well, what setting is this character going to be in? Is this for a homebrew or for adventurers league? I did the exact same thing for my devotion paladin, where I started with a level in fighter, https://ddb.ac/characters/35035078/DUHoxz
However that was in AL, and back when you were guaranteed a level after every completing an adventure, though I made the mistake of getting into an extended module that could not be done in one session (lost labs of kwalish) at lvl 5, so I had to participate in another adventure to complete and basically went through two separate sessions with this guy not having extra attack... and lemme tell you, it suuuucks. The jump in difficulty from tier 1 to tier 2 really makes you feel the lack of the extra attack, but at least it wasn't that bad cause I didn't have to put up with it more than two sessions, and you have the option to play AL as much as you like, so I did this all in one day in real time. In a home campaign, this might not be the case at all, and you could end up several sessions at lvl 5 over a period of weeks, several sessions stuck with one attack while everyone's performing at the expected level.
I started with one level of fighter for the same reason of maintaining powerful buffs on myself without worry, and for personal flavor reasons as it's ultimately a battle master multiclass. This was because I planned on going devotion at least to lvl 17 and my auras would make up for lacking proficiency in WIS saves, and my high CHA would make my saves decent anyways. However, while I do understand this character will be in melee from time to time, the fact you'll be ranged a good portion of the time leads me to believe your concentration won't be in danger as much as somebody else's. So proficiency in CON saves won't be as useful to you than to someone who is in constant melee. I did it for mine, and I don't regret it and I love it, but I wouldn't exactly recommend it for everybody.
Now, here's an idea: you multiclass into fighter after lvl 5 paladin. You won't get the CON saves, but you don't exactly need it and you'll avoid any awkwardness from not having extra attack at 5, you'll get your steed asap, and still unlock archery fighting style. This way, you'll end up capping your DEX at lvl 9, instead of 12.
Maybe it's a bias of mine, but I like devotion. The way I see it, tier 1 is riddled with misses here and there during combat and it can totally happen an awful amount of time, and monsters can be resistant to non-magical attacks. Devotion's buff of making your attacks count as magical while increasing your to hit bonus makes it 100% worth losing out a turn for.
I have a strong hankering to combine Find Steed with a Longbow and I don't want to be a bard. A real Prince Ashitaka vibe that can tear enemies down at range atop his trusty steed while still being incredibly dangerous in melee thanks to smites.
How would you do it?
"But Zot, Paladin's don't get archery fighting style." - yeah, but how'd'ya do it?
"But Zot, Smites only work in melee" - yeah, but how'd'ya do it?
"But Zot, Paladins want to be close to their allies because of auras and stuff" - yeah, but how'd'ya it?
So, Mounted Archer Paladin. Any thoughts?
I'd do this as a beastmaster ranger or battlesmith artificer, not as any sort of paladin.
I'd do this as a beastmaster ranger or battlesmith artificer, not as any sort of paladin.
"But Zot, this would be so much better if it was built as some other class."
- yeah, but how'd'ya do it?
I have no interest in mechanical friends for this character concept. Not in for beastmaster either, but since ya won't play by the rules I'll ask 😉...How would you do it? PHB or Tasha's?
@cgarciao. This will be for homebrew so yeah, getting stuck at a level for multiple sessions is a definite reality. We don't like to blow through levels.
You're right I don't need to go out of my way to pick up con save proficiency if I'm planning on being at range a good chunk of the time. I'm so diligent with building good concentration checks from druids. It's a clear bias of mine and definitely one I can ease up on for this character. I like the idea of picking up a level of fighter (probably at character level 7) to get the fighting style a lot. That makes something like Paladin 6/ Fighter 4 super tempting. Hmmm. So much to consider.
And great sell on Devotion. Thinking about it more, I could see those turns where I set up using Channel Divinity and Divine Favor feeling like some really badass moments. Raising the bow in triumph as it radiates its divine fury across the faces of my enemies. I might not be dealing damage yet, but oh boy do they know what is coming.
Second on the Oath of Devotion with Sacred Weapon would be a good combo with SharpShooter to offset the penalty.
You get +CHA to attack rolls with that weapon. You could also pick up a fighting style from a feat to get the Archery Style. overall with a decent CHA (14) and the style you would be almost completely negating the -5 from Sharpshooter.
You could cast Sanctuary on yourself and get the Steed as well making you and them both really hard to hit.
I'd do this as a beastmaster ranger or battlesmith artificer, not as any sort of paladin.
"But Zot, this would be so much better if it was built as some other class."
- yeah, but how'd'ya do it?
I have no interest in mechanical friends for this character concept. Not in for beastmaster either, but since ya won't play by the rules I'll ask 😉...How would you do it? PHB or Tasha's?
@cgarciao. This will be for homebrew so yeah, getting stuck at a level for multiple sessions is a definite reality. We don't like to blow through levels.
You're right I don't need to go out of my way to pick up con save proficiency if I'm planning on being at range a good chunk of the time. I'm so diligent with building good concentration checks from druids. It's a clear bias of mine and definitely one I can ease up on for this character. I like the idea of picking up a level of fighter (probably at character level 7) to get the fighting style a lot. That makes something like Paladin 6/ Fighter 4 super tempting. Hmmm. So much to consider.
And great sell on Devotion. Thinking about it more, I could see those turns where I set up using Channel Divinity and Divine Favor feeling like some really badass moments. Raising the bow in triumph as it radiates its divine fury across the faces of my enemies. I might not be dealing damage yet, but oh boy do they know what is coming.
I thought I was playing by the rules, since you asked me how I'd do it. :-P If I wanted to make a mounted archer, I'd pick a class good at being mounted and good at archery. Pretty straightforward.
Tasha's is way better for actual playability, but you'll need some heavy house rules from your DM to fix the subclass at higher levels - 7 can be ignored (it would add nothing to you even if reworded), but 11 and 15 need fixing.
I'd personally try to play a particularly lightweight race, like a deep gnome, to ensure I could ride the Beast of the Sky around.
I'd do this as a beastmaster ranger or battlesmith artificer, not as any sort of paladin.
"But Zot, this would be so much better if it was built as some other class."
- yeah, but how'd'ya do it?
I have no interest in mechanical friends for this character concept. Not in for beastmaster either, but since ya won't play by the rules I'll ask 😉...How would you do it? PHB or Tasha's?
@cgarciao. This will be for homebrew so yeah, getting stuck at a level for multiple sessions is a definite reality. We don't like to blow through levels.
You're right I don't need to go out of my way to pick up con save proficiency if I'm planning on being at range a good chunk of the time. I'm so diligent with building good concentration checks from druids. It's a clear bias of mine and definitely one I can ease up on for this character. I like the idea of picking up a level of fighter (probably at character level 7) to get the fighting style a lot. That makes something like Paladin 6/ Fighter 4 super tempting. Hmmm. So much to consider.
And great sell on Devotion. Thinking about it more, I could see those turns where I set up using Channel Divinity and Divine Favor feeling like some really badass moments. Raising the bow in triumph as it radiates its divine fury across the faces of my enemies. I might not be dealing damage yet, but oh boy do they know what is coming.
Bro, the channel divinity's buff is something I take a rich opportunity in roleplay for. I'm a huge anime fan, and sacred weapon's description and effect of making your weapon emit light is something I used to my benefit when I ripped off G Gundam's Domon Kasshu's shining finger power up of "this sword of mine glows with an awesome power (action use channel divnitiy: sacred weapon), it's burning edge tells me to defeat you (bonus action activate flame tongue)," and on the following turn where I actively attack and do my nova, I recite "take this, my love, my anger, and all my sorrow, Shining Saber! (action surge with GWM and possibly divine smite spam)."
You can add your own spin to it where it can be a magical girl transformation kind of moment, or going super saiyan, or any appropriate kind of power up that takes time and wind up. Use that time to build up anticipation, despite using up an entire action.
@Quindraco: Hehe just teasin. Thanks for the reply. I figured Beastmaster would have to go small species and I'm just not into that for this character. It's certainly a more natural fit, but whatever. I like swimming up river sometimes.
@Optimus: I'm leaning more and more into Devotion. Especially as I consider waiting to pick up the fighting style until a dip at level 7. Having that boost for important combats seems great for ensuring I feel like a dangerous archer when I really need to.
Also sick tech on Sanctuary, but shouldn't I cast it on the mount? If I cast it on myself it'll drop as soon as I start going pew pew.
@Quindraco: Hehe just teasin. Thanks for the reply. I figured Beastmaster would have to go small species and I'm just not into that for this character. It's certainly a more natural fit, but whatever. I like swimming up river sometimes.
@Optimus: I'm leaning more and more into Devotion. Especially as I consider waiting to pick up the fighting style until a dip at level 7. Having that boost for important combats seems great for ensuring I feel like a dangerous archer when I really need to.
Also sick tech on Sanctuary, but shouldn't I cast it on the mount? If I cast it on myself it'll drop as soon as I start going pew pew.
Good question....I think you can cast it on yourself and it applies to the mount so you could Pew Pew then cast it. But you are right that would likely only last a single round then as it would disappear as soon as you pew pew'd again.
In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, don't forget that there are a handful of Paladin smite spells that do not require you to make a melee attack to use. I dont remember which ones they are, but I think there are three that can be used with ranged weapons, or if not that they can at least be used with melee weapons that are thrown.
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In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, don't forget that there are a handful of Paladin smite spells that do not require you to make a melee attack to use. I dont remember which ones they are, but I think there are three that can be used with ranged weapons, or if not that they can at least be used with melee weapons that are thrown.
@scgarciao: That sounds so dope. Must be so satisfying playing that out. Yeah I'm officially jazzed now.
@Kaboom: nice add! Looking it over it seems there are only two on the Paladin list not tethered to melee attacks. Branding Smite at level 2 and Banishing Smite at level 5. Fifth level paladin spells are such an afterthought to me, but Branding Smite is quite nice. I want to use my second level spells slots pretty liberally on find steed, but I do really like the idea of having it in my back pocket for clutch moments.
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I have a strong hankering to combine Find Steed with a Longbow and I don't want to be a bard. A real Prince Ashitaka vibe that can tear enemies down at range atop his trusty steed while still being incredibly dangerous in melee thanks to smites.
How would you do it?
"But Zot, Paladin's don't get archery fighting style." - yeah, but how'd'ya do it?
"But Zot, Smites only work in melee" - yeah, but how'd'ya do it?
"But Zot, Paladins want to be close to their allies because of auras and stuff" - yeah, but how'd'ya it?
So, Mounted Archer Paladin. Any thoughts?
I'd go with either devotion or glory. Devotion's channel divinity can offset the accuracy penalty you get with sharpshooter, which looks like a must-have if you really want to go into the archer build. Glory just looks like it'd help with kiting enemies with your steed via your speed aura, and getting more hits in with haste. While vengeance looks like an obvious choice, you do have to be within 10ft of your target to use vow of enmity.
Now, another thing I might consider is *drum roll* HEXBLADE, TA DAHHH! 3 levels and you get pact of the blade and the invocation improved pact weapon so you can use a longbow with CHA too. Perhaps a thing to consider is that since you're attacking with a pact longbow, you can smite via your arrows if you take the eldritch smite invocation at lvl 5 hexblade, and since you're attacking with a longbow, it kinda opens up more invocations since you don't have to take anything related to eldritch blast. you could take mask of many faces, improved pact weapon, and eldritch smite, for example. none of them gotta be agonizing blast, isn't that nice? Kinda-sorta suits the whole princess mononoke ashitaka thing too since there's some voodoo going on with his freaky arm and all.
Still, 3 to 5 levels is quite a hefy investment when you could just increase DEX instead as a regular paladin, and I personally would go down that road if only to say I'm hip and cool.
I'd go something like, v.human starting with 16 DEX & CHA, SS or fighting initiate to grab archery fighting style if you don't want to cause a power disparity so soon in your campaign, grab blessed warrior fighting style at 2 for access to light cantrip since humans can't see good in dark, go devotion at 3, and at 4 grab the feat you didn't take from creation to come online the soonest possible and fulfill that archer paladin fantasy right away. at 8 and 12 you can cap out your DEX, though you might not feel much pressure to do so since at lvl 4 you're cancelling out the accuracy penalty entirely from SS thanks to archery fighting style and the +3 from your channel divnity.
Nice, thanks cgarciao.
I've certainly thought about the warlock angle in terms of building Ashitaka, but I don't need or really want this character to be an exact replica. He's more of just a starting point for inspiration. It's a multiclass I'd certainly entertain if starting at higher levels, but I don't love how much it distracts from the paladin levels. Unlocking extra attack and find steed in a timely manner are things I value highly. Still, an option worth considering for sure. I kind of like it on a dex based build as a multiclass after level 6/7 of paladin.
As much as I'm loathe to do this kind of thing on extra attack builds, how do you feel about starting with one level dip in fighter? This character is definitely going to be V human, so I like being able to start with Archery FS and Sharpshooter at one. Divine Favor will be a regular part of the routine, so con save proficiency will be nice since this will be more of a switch-hitter build and not a completely dedicated archer. It would be super nice to stick to a single-class paladin and not have to worry about strength at all. Not to mention unlocking everything at the earliest level. I'm torn.
Your Oath options make a lot of sense. I was also looking at Ancients since I could use Ensnaring Strike on Bow shots. Glory is super fun for even more mount speed. I wish I liked Devotion more. Not sure how I feel about taking an action off to buff myself like that.
Well, what setting is this character going to be in? Is this for a homebrew or for adventurers league? I did the exact same thing for my devotion paladin, where I started with a level in fighter, https://ddb.ac/characters/35035078/DUHoxz
However that was in AL, and back when you were guaranteed a level after every completing an adventure, though I made the mistake of getting into an extended module that could not be done in one session (lost labs of kwalish) at lvl 5, so I had to participate in another adventure to complete and basically went through two separate sessions with this guy not having extra attack... and lemme tell you, it suuuucks. The jump in difficulty from tier 1 to tier 2 really makes you feel the lack of the extra attack, but at least it wasn't that bad cause I didn't have to put up with it more than two sessions, and you have the option to play AL as much as you like, so I did this all in one day in real time. In a home campaign, this might not be the case at all, and you could end up several sessions at lvl 5 over a period of weeks, several sessions stuck with one attack while everyone's performing at the expected level.
I started with one level of fighter for the same reason of maintaining powerful buffs on myself without worry, and for personal flavor reasons as it's ultimately a battle master multiclass. This was because I planned on going devotion at least to lvl 17 and my auras would make up for lacking proficiency in WIS saves, and my high CHA would make my saves decent anyways. However, while I do understand this character will be in melee from time to time, the fact you'll be ranged a good portion of the time leads me to believe your concentration won't be in danger as much as somebody else's. So proficiency in CON saves won't be as useful to you than to someone who is in constant melee. I did it for mine, and I don't regret it and I love it, but I wouldn't exactly recommend it for everybody.
Now, here's an idea: you multiclass into fighter after lvl 5 paladin. You won't get the CON saves, but you don't exactly need it and you'll avoid any awkwardness from not having extra attack at 5, you'll get your steed asap, and still unlock archery fighting style. This way, you'll end up capping your DEX at lvl 9, instead of 12.
Maybe it's a bias of mine, but I like devotion. The way I see it, tier 1 is riddled with misses here and there during combat and it can totally happen an awful amount of time, and monsters can be resistant to non-magical attacks. Devotion's buff of making your attacks count as magical while increasing your to hit bonus makes it 100% worth losing out a turn for.
I'd do this as a beastmaster ranger or battlesmith artificer, not as any sort of paladin.
"But Zot, this would be so much better if it was built as some other class."
- yeah, but how'd'ya do it?
I have no interest in mechanical friends for this character concept. Not in for beastmaster either, but since ya won't play by the rules I'll ask 😉...How would you do it? PHB or Tasha's?
@cgarciao. This will be for homebrew so yeah, getting stuck at a level for multiple sessions is a definite reality. We don't like to blow through levels.
You're right I don't need to go out of my way to pick up con save proficiency if I'm planning on being at range a good chunk of the time. I'm so diligent with building good concentration checks from druids. It's a clear bias of mine and definitely one I can ease up on for this character. I like the idea of picking up a level of fighter (probably at character level 7) to get the fighting style a lot. That makes something like Paladin 6/ Fighter 4 super tempting. Hmmm. So much to consider.
And great sell on Devotion. Thinking about it more, I could see those turns where I set up using Channel Divinity and Divine Favor feeling like some really badass moments. Raising the bow in triumph as it radiates its divine fury across the faces of my enemies. I might not be dealing damage yet, but oh boy do they know what is coming.
Second on the Oath of Devotion with Sacred Weapon would be a good combo with SharpShooter to offset the penalty.
You get +CHA to attack rolls with that weapon. You could also pick up a fighting style from a feat to get the Archery Style. overall with a decent CHA (14) and the style you would be almost completely negating the -5 from Sharpshooter.
You could cast Sanctuary on yourself and get the Steed as well making you and them both really hard to hit.
I thought I was playing by the rules, since you asked me how I'd do it. :-P If I wanted to make a mounted archer, I'd pick a class good at being mounted and good at archery. Pretty straightforward.
Tasha's is way better for actual playability, but you'll need some heavy house rules from your DM to fix the subclass at higher levels - 7 can be ignored (it would add nothing to you even if reworded), but 11 and 15 need fixing.
I'd personally try to play a particularly lightweight race, like a deep gnome, to ensure I could ride the Beast of the Sky around.
Bro, the channel divinity's buff is something I take a rich opportunity in roleplay for. I'm a huge anime fan, and sacred weapon's description and effect of making your weapon emit light is something I used to my benefit when I ripped off G Gundam's Domon Kasshu's shining finger power up of "this sword of mine glows with an awesome power (action use channel divnitiy: sacred weapon), it's burning edge tells me to defeat you (bonus action activate flame tongue)," and on the following turn where I actively attack and do my nova, I recite "take this, my love, my anger, and all my sorrow, Shining Saber! (action surge with GWM and possibly divine smite spam)."
You can add your own spin to it where it can be a magical girl transformation kind of moment, or going super saiyan, or any appropriate kind of power up that takes time and wind up. Use that time to build up anticipation, despite using up an entire action.
@Quindraco: Hehe just teasin. Thanks for the reply. I figured Beastmaster would have to go small species and I'm just not into that for this character. It's certainly a more natural fit, but whatever. I like swimming up river sometimes.
@Optimus: I'm leaning more and more into Devotion. Especially as I consider waiting to pick up the fighting style until a dip at level 7. Having that boost for important combats seems great for ensuring I feel like a dangerous archer when I really need to.
Also sick tech on Sanctuary, but shouldn't I cast it on the mount? If I cast it on myself it'll drop as soon as I start going pew pew.
Good question....I think you can cast it on yourself and it applies to the mount so you could Pew Pew then cast it. But you are right that would likely only last a single round then as it would disappear as soon as you pew pew'd again.
In case it hasn't been mentioned yet, don't forget that there are a handful of Paladin smite spells that do not require you to make a melee attack to use. I dont remember which ones they are, but I think there are three that can be used with ranged weapons, or if not that they can at least be used with melee weapons that are thrown.
Four-time Judge of the Competition of the Finest Brews! Come join us in making fun, unique homebrew and voting for your favorite entries!
Very good point.....several of them do not!
@scgarciao: That sounds so dope. Must be so satisfying playing that out. Yeah I'm officially jazzed now.
@Kaboom: nice add! Looking it over it seems there are only two on the Paladin list not tethered to melee attacks. Branding Smite at level 2 and Banishing Smite at level 5. Fifth level paladin spells are such an afterthought to me, but Branding Smite is quite nice. I want to use my second level spells slots pretty liberally on find steed, but I do really like the idea of having it in my back pocket for clutch moments.