As a 9th level Oath of Vengeance Paladin I now have Haste. I have already determined that it is not worth casing on myself. The lost round of damage to Cast and the (potential) lost round when Haste drops (required by the spell) takes away too much of the Paladin's attacks.
I was thinking of casting it on our Rogue. I still lose that first round of attacks, but the extra damage enacted by the Rogue could more than make up for it. the Danger of my Paladin losing concentration during battle is still there, but he has a +6 on CON saving throws. Plus, if he does lose CON, the Rogue is down for a round, but not the Paladin.
What does the group think? I imagine this has been discussed and "cussed" many times before.
It's fine to cast haste on yourself. Sure, you use up your whole action the first round to buff yourself, but on the same round you're given a hasted action to make an attack. So, you go from two attacks to one attack on the first round, then three on the other turns. You get your money's worth by the second round for haste's defensive properties. My hexblade paladin hastes himself regularly, granted, he's got +9 to his concentration checks and advantage on concentration saving throughs.
Hasting the rogue is an okay idea, if the rogue's not dual wielding. It's extra insurance that they'll land their sneak attack.
You get the hasted attack on the first turn to make an attack so you are giving up a single attack for all the boosts. The plus 2 ac really helps with stopping him getting hurt. Losing one attack once to get one per turn is very useful and worthwhile
With Aura of Protection you should be pretty well covered for concentration checks; depending upon how your build is going you might consider picking up the War Caster feat to make it extremely hard to break your concentration.
It is the main drawback of using haste on a Paladin, since you usually want to be in the thick of the action no matter who you caste it on, which is how it differs to a backline Wizard casting it on something moving to the front. So you're more likely to be making saves for concentration, but you've got some decent built in protection against them, along with a high AC.
Who is best to cast haste on will depend on the situation; no matter the target you'll lose two attacks in the same turn, but if you cast it upon yourself you will at least still get one attack along with the +2 AC to help avoid hits (and thus concentration saves), and in the later rounds you'll have three attacks, and thus three opportunities to divine smite. Also don't forget your Vow of Enmity; you can trigger it in the same round, so that one attack will have advantage, then your next three will as well, increasing your chances to not only hit, but get a critical hit (which also doubles the damage of a smite).
I'd also say it partially depends how the combat is laid out; if you're already in the thick of a melee you might be better off just getting stuck in and saving the slot for an extra smite or another combat. However, if you're a distance from your targets then haste may be a perfect charge and dominate option; if you think of it in terms of either having to use a weaker ranged attack (if you even have one) or a Dash to close the distance, then haste is almost always going to be superior as you double your speed (effectively dashing anyway), gain bonus AC equivalent to shield of faith and you still get to make one attack (and if it hits you can smite with it to still deal heavy damage), plus you're juiced up for the next round.
Lastly, it pays to have allies who can help you out; Bardic Inspiration for example can be added to a save, a Cleric, Druid or other caster with bless can likewise help. It rarely pays to let a hasted Paladin loses their concentration (and a turn) in combat, so speak to your allies to see who can support you in the same round.
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Thanks. Great feedback!!! So in the rou d I cast Haste on myself I can still make one attack? I thought the action to cast haste would use up thar action. Or dis I miss understand?
Thanks. Great feedback!!! So in the rou d I cast Haste on myself I can still make one attack? I thought the action to cast haste would use up thar action. Or dis I miss understand?
Although you've used your normal action to cast haste, you can still make use of the additional (limited) action that it grants you on the same turn, you don't have to wait until your next. One of the actions it lets you take is the Attack action, but limited to only a single attack.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The spell says: "That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action."
I don't interpret this to mean I can only swing once with the additional action. Yes, it restricts taking another swing with a second weapon (dual wield), but if I take two swings with the same "one weapon" that I do on a normal turn, then I believe the spell lets you take another two swings with that same one weapon. If that restriction was meant to inhibit the extra swing paladins get at level 5, I believe it would say so more specifically. I believe the restriction is meant to limit dual wielders, not characters who take two swings with one weapon. Thoughts?
The spell says: "That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action."
I don't interpret this to mean I can only swing once with the additional action. Yes, it restricts taking another swing with a second weapon (dual wield), but if I take two swings with the same "one weapon" that I do on a normal turn, then I believe the spell lets you take another two swings with that same one weapon. If that restriction was meant to inhibit the extra swing paladins get at level 5, I believe it would say so more specifically. I believe the restriction is meant to limit dual wielders, not characters who take two swings with one weapon. Thoughts?
The text you've quoted has in brackets "one weapon attack only", meaning you get one, and only one, weapon attack. If you are rolling more than one attack as part of the hasted attack action, then you are explicitly breaking that rule.
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Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The spell says: "That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action."
I don't interpret this to mean I can only swing once with the additional action. Yes, it restricts taking another swing with a second weapon (dual wield), but if I take two swings with the same "one weapon" that I do on a normal turn, then I believe the spell lets you take another two swings with that same one weapon. If that restriction was meant to inhibit the extra swing paladins get at level 5, I believe it would say so more specifically. I believe the restriction is meant to limit dual wielders, not characters who take two swings with one weapon. Thoughts?
The spell says: "That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action."
I don't interpret this to mean I can only swing once with the additional action. Yes, it restricts taking another swing with a second weapon (dual wield), but if I take two swings with the same "one weapon" that I do on a normal turn, then I believe the spell lets you take another two swings with that same one weapon. If that restriction was meant to inhibit the extra swing paladins get at level 5, I believe it would say so more specifically. I believe the restriction is meant to limit dual wielders, not characters who take two swings with one weapon. Thoughts?
Nah it is a single attack regardless of multi attack. Specific beats general and haste says you can take the attach action (one weapon attack only). That overrides the multi attack
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As a 9th level Oath of Vengeance Paladin I now have Haste. I have already determined that it is not worth casing on myself. The lost round of damage to Cast and the (potential) lost round when Haste drops (required by the spell) takes away too much of the Paladin's attacks.
I was thinking of casting it on our Rogue. I still lose that first round of attacks, but the extra damage enacted by the Rogue could more than make up for it. the Danger of my Paladin losing concentration during battle is still there, but he has a +6 on CON saving throws. Plus, if he does lose CON, the Rogue is down for a round, but not the Paladin.
What does the group think? I imagine this has been discussed and "cussed" many times before.
It's fine to cast haste on yourself. Sure, you use up your whole action the first round to buff yourself, but on the same round you're given a hasted action to make an attack. So, you go from two attacks to one attack on the first round, then three on the other turns. You get your money's worth by the second round for haste's defensive properties. My hexblade paladin hastes himself regularly, granted, he's got +9 to his concentration checks and advantage on concentration saving throughs.
Hasting the rogue is an okay idea, if the rogue's not dual wielding. It's extra insurance that they'll land their sneak attack.
You get the hasted attack on the first turn to make an attack so you are giving up a single attack for all the boosts. The plus 2 ac really helps with stopping him getting hurt. Losing one attack once to get one per turn is very useful and worthwhile
With Aura of Protection you should be pretty well covered for concentration checks; depending upon how your build is going you might consider picking up the War Caster feat to make it extremely hard to break your concentration.
It is the main drawback of using haste on a Paladin, since you usually want to be in the thick of the action no matter who you caste it on, which is how it differs to a backline Wizard casting it on something moving to the front. So you're more likely to be making saves for concentration, but you've got some decent built in protection against them, along with a high AC.
Who is best to cast haste on will depend on the situation; no matter the target you'll lose two attacks in the same turn, but if you cast it upon yourself you will at least still get one attack along with the +2 AC to help avoid hits (and thus concentration saves), and in the later rounds you'll have three attacks, and thus three opportunities to divine smite. Also don't forget your Vow of Enmity; you can trigger it in the same round, so that one attack will have advantage, then your next three will as well, increasing your chances to not only hit, but get a critical hit (which also doubles the damage of a smite).
I'd also say it partially depends how the combat is laid out; if you're already in the thick of a melee you might be better off just getting stuck in and saving the slot for an extra smite or another combat. However, if you're a distance from your targets then haste may be a perfect charge and dominate option; if you think of it in terms of either having to use a weaker ranged attack (if you even have one) or a Dash to close the distance, then haste is almost always going to be superior as you double your speed (effectively dashing anyway), gain bonus AC equivalent to shield of faith and you still get to make one attack (and if it hits you can smite with it to still deal heavy damage), plus you're juiced up for the next round.
Lastly, it pays to have allies who can help you out; Bardic Inspiration for example can be added to a save, a Cleric, Druid or other caster with bless can likewise help. It rarely pays to let a hasted Paladin loses their concentration (and a turn) in combat, so speak to your allies to see who can support you in the same round.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
Thanks. Great feedback!!! So in the rou d I cast Haste on myself I can still make one attack? I thought the action to cast haste would use up thar action. Or dis I miss understand?
Although you've used your normal action to cast haste, you can still make use of the additional (limited) action that it grants you on the same turn, you don't have to wait until your next. One of the actions it lets you take is the Attack action, but limited to only a single attack.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
The spell says: "That action can be used only to take the Attack (one weapon attack only), Dash, Disengage, Hide, or Use an Object action."
I don't interpret this to mean I can only swing once with the additional action. Yes, it restricts taking another swing with a second weapon (dual wield), but if I take two swings with the same "one weapon" that I do on a normal turn, then I believe the spell lets you take another two swings with that same one weapon. If that restriction was meant to inhibit the extra swing paladins get at level 5, I believe it would say so more specifically. I believe the restriction is meant to limit dual wielders, not characters who take two swings with one weapon. Thoughts?
The text you've quoted has in brackets "one weapon attack only", meaning you get one, and only one, weapon attack. If you are rolling more than one attack as part of the hasted attack action, then you are explicitly breaking that rule.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
no, haste only allows one attack at all
Nah it is a single attack regardless of multi attack. Specific beats general and haste says you can take the attach action (one weapon attack only). That overrides the multi attack