Hello, I'm building a 12th level character for a one-shot. The other five party members are druid, bard, sorcerer, fighter, fighter/barbarian. I wanted to experiment with a team player sort of build rather than a glory hog. Here's what I've got:
Paladin 6, Lore Bard 6. We were allowed 3 "fun" magic items, 2 rare, 1 uncommon. I went for a shield of missile attraction, winged boots, and a hat of disguise.
My damage output is nothing (seriously, pitiful) next to our fighters when I'm not smiting, but consider the things I can do for my party if I'm standing right in front of the casters: Provide a bubble of +5 to all saves, including concentration checks. Provide bardic inspiration. Lay on hands. Divert all missiles away from the casters.
For utility, I have a LOT of skills, the ability to fly, and to disguise myself.
For magic, I have the slots of a 9th level caster and access to a LOT of spells known of levels 3 and down. What I can't figure out is what bardic magical secrets to take for this build.
For spells prepared/known of note from my regular classes, I have this for sure:
Bane, bless, faerie fire, healing word, heroism, shield of faith, aid, hold person, invisibility, lesser restoration, misty step, suggestion, dispel magic, hypnotic pattern. I have room for a few more from both bard (levels 1-3) and paladin (levels 1-2) lists. I also have 2 magical secret spells to pick. What do I take?
Here are some ideas I've thought about:
Spirit guardians (of course), Armor of Agathys (affects my steed too), Shield (can get AC to high twenties), Crusader's Mantle (the druid has summoning and the bard has animate objects), Counterspell (even though our bard can do that, too).
Is there something else I haven't thought of? (We're only using the Player's Handbook.) What would you pick?
Honestly, I think a paladin 10/bard 2 split might be best. Or, even just straight paladin. Here's why:
It's great that you're entering this with the mindset of wanting to be a team player, but sometimes that entails not stepping in on other's territory. Imagine the bard's tossing inspiration left and right to feel like an important and contributing member of the party, but you doing the same might lessen that importance for them. Essentially, a lot of what you listed in terms of your support benefits comes down to you being a paladin, save for the bardic inspiration.
But even ignoring the rhetoric on being conscientious, there's absolutely reason to push for straight paladin.
By stopping at paladin 6, you forgo the potential auras at 7 and 10, which can be quite significant to have. Having improved divine smite may push your damage to be half-decent. Being capable of doing some damage is never a bad thing and lends itself to a type of support. Not to mention, if you go paladin 12 an extra feat/asi can be used to expand on your supporty-ness, and you get more Lay on Hands points.
Furthermore, a lot of the spells you mentioned as being candidates for magical secrets can be attained by paladin. All paladins get crusader's mantle, which is arguably the BEST spell choice to really augment and supercharge your party's offensive capabilities into overdrive. But, redemption paladin also gets counterspell. crown gets spirit guardians. conquest gets armor of agathys. If you want, you could even do a hexblade multiclass to gain access to armor of agathys and shield. If youu do hexblade 2/palaadin 10, you get those sweet invocations and a pretty decent damage option with eldritch blast+agonizing blast. Or, maybe you'd rather take repelling blast for more battlefield control. Eldritch mind for better concentration is notablle if you want to concentrate on crusader's mantle for entire encounters.
Maybe even paladin 10/hexblade 1/bard 1 if you really want bardic inspiration and access to healing word and faerie fire.
First of all, thank you for your advice. If we had access to stuff beyond the PHB I would definitely be considering another Paladin subclass. All the points you make about those spells are absolutely correct. And if role playing constraints allowed too, I would absolutely consider a hexblade. But I only have players handbook options available. Hexblade is not available. Redemption paladin is not available. Crown paladin is not available.
The way I was looking at it was "How do I build the best buffer?" I really liked the Paladin's 6th level aura. So where do you go after level 6? Defensively, another 6 levels of PHB Paladins gives you mainly circumstantial defensive auras several of which will be irrelevant after another player's heroes feast spell, plus, as you point out correctly, 30 extra points of lay on hands. But I could use my 5th level slot for aid, which grants a total of 60 extra hit points, and still have 3 4th level slots left. I think the class levels I've taken are the ones I want. But I'm still stuck on spell choice.
Anyway, my current thinking is spirit guardians (almost certainly) and shield (probably), but since at level 12 there's a good chance we'll have to face a dragon, I would love advice on what spells could help with that.
In my experience, earth bind is a great spell against dragons.
I've got to be upfront, this is quite predicament you're in. Only phb? Sounds barbaric lol. Though, the situation isn't made all that better with magical secrets either since you're stuck with third level spells. Spirit guardians is probably your best option to make the most out of magical secrets, though I still feel crusader's mantle is the better choice, especially when fighting a dragon, and especially with all the added summons from the druid and animate objects.
In general, fighting a dragon with your skill set is going to be an uphill battle that might rely on DM fiat. For example, white dragons are relatively low intelligence, so I was able to RP an exchange where I boasted having a bigger, better hoard. That got the dragon to come down and wail on it in melee. But that may not happen with every DM and they may resort to fly by tactics. Then, in that case, you just have to take cover and shoot whatever you can until the dragon gets sick of waiting and makes landfall. Once it's on the ground, casting bless on everyone might be your best concentration spell, as there's gonna be plenty of saving throws either from frightful presence, breath attack, or wing attacks.
In my experience, earth bind is a great spell against dragons.
I've got to be upfront, this is quite predicament you're in. Only phb? Sounds barbaric lol. Though, the situation isn't made all that better with magical secrets either since you're stuck with third level spells. Spirit guardians is probably your best option to make the most out of magical secrets, though I still feel crusader's mantle is the better choice, especially when fighting a dragon, and especially with all the added summons from the druid and animate objects.
In general, fighting a dragon with your skill set is going to be an uphill battle that might rely on DM fiat. For example, white dragons are relatively low intelligence, so I was able to RP an exchange where I boasted having a bigger, better hoard. That got the dragon to come down and wail on it in melee. But that may not happen with every DM and they may resort to fly by tactics. Then, in that case, you just have to take cover and shoot whatever you can until the dragon gets sick of waiting and makes landfall. Once it's on the ground, casting bless on everyone might be your best concentration spell, as there's gonna be plenty of saving throws either from frightful presence, breath attack, or wing attacks.
Good advice, overall. Not sure about Earthbind, since the dragon will likely make a Str saving throw, unless it's quite young. Also, many dragons will have Legendary Resistances to make the saving throw, if they happen to fail it.
I ran this character in the one-shot and he was great.
I can't tell you how many times his aura helped the party but it included foiling two Dominate Person spells, preventing poisonings, making every single one of us pass our saves when an ally cast thunderwave, and helping other characters maintain concentration. And it felt good, too. Most characters only get to act on their turn. Between cutting words and the aura, I had an effect on so many of our enemies' turns, too.
He also helped by healing the party, providing lots of extra hit points with aid, casting bless, casting spirit guardians and taking the dodge action (and casting shield if he was targeted by too many foes), and convincing foes to run away with suggestion.
The character may not put out a lot of offense most of the time, but he has access to the 1st-3rd level spells that matter, lots of spells to choose from, can take a punch, and is only two spell slots short of a full caster's slots. So it works!
I should mention that the one shot was my bachelor party. Get it, bachelor *party*? We did a The World's End style pub crawl from the safety of zoom and I named my character Yesdir.
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Hello, I'm building a 12th level character for a one-shot. The other five party members are druid, bard, sorcerer, fighter, fighter/barbarian. I wanted to experiment with a team player sort of build rather than a glory hog. Here's what I've got:
Paladin 6, Lore Bard 6. We were allowed 3 "fun" magic items, 2 rare, 1 uncommon. I went for a shield of missile attraction, winged boots, and a hat of disguise.
My damage output is nothing (seriously, pitiful) next to our fighters when I'm not smiting, but consider the things I can do for my party if I'm standing right in front of the casters: Provide a bubble of +5 to all saves, including concentration checks. Provide bardic inspiration. Lay on hands. Divert all missiles away from the casters.
For utility, I have a LOT of skills, the ability to fly, and to disguise myself.
For magic, I have the slots of a 9th level caster and access to a LOT of spells known of levels 3 and down. What I can't figure out is what bardic magical secrets to take for this build.
For spells prepared/known of note from my regular classes, I have this for sure:
Bane, bless, faerie fire, healing word, heroism, shield of faith, aid, hold person, invisibility, lesser restoration, misty step, suggestion, dispel magic, hypnotic pattern. I have room for a few more from both bard (levels 1-3) and paladin (levels 1-2) lists. I also have 2 magical secret spells to pick. What do I take?
Here are some ideas I've thought about:
Spirit guardians (of course), Armor of Agathys (affects my steed too), Shield (can get AC to high twenties), Crusader's Mantle (the druid has summoning and the bard has animate objects), Counterspell (even though our bard can do that, too).
Is there something else I haven't thought of? (We're only using the Player's Handbook.) What would you pick?
Honestly, I think a paladin 10/bard 2 split might be best. Or, even just straight paladin. Here's why:
It's great that you're entering this with the mindset of wanting to be a team player, but sometimes that entails not stepping in on other's territory. Imagine the bard's tossing inspiration left and right to feel like an important and contributing member of the party, but you doing the same might lessen that importance for them. Essentially, a lot of what you listed in terms of your support benefits comes down to you being a paladin, save for the bardic inspiration.
But even ignoring the rhetoric on being conscientious, there's absolutely reason to push for straight paladin.
By stopping at paladin 6, you forgo the potential auras at 7 and 10, which can be quite significant to have. Having improved divine smite may push your damage to be half-decent. Being capable of doing some damage is never a bad thing and lends itself to a type of support. Not to mention, if you go paladin 12 an extra feat/asi can be used to expand on your supporty-ness, and you get more Lay on Hands points.
Furthermore, a lot of the spells you mentioned as being candidates for magical secrets can be attained by paladin. All paladins get crusader's mantle, which is arguably the BEST spell choice to really augment and supercharge your party's offensive capabilities into overdrive. But, redemption paladin also gets counterspell. crown gets spirit guardians. conquest gets armor of agathys. If you want, you could even do a hexblade multiclass to gain access to armor of agathys and shield. If youu do hexblade 2/palaadin 10, you get those sweet invocations and a pretty decent damage option with eldritch blast+agonizing blast. Or, maybe you'd rather take repelling blast for more battlefield control. Eldritch mind for better concentration is notablle if you want to concentrate on crusader's mantle for entire encounters.
Maybe even paladin 10/hexblade 1/bard 1 if you really want bardic inspiration and access to healing word and faerie fire.
First of all, thank you for your advice. If we had access to stuff beyond the PHB I would definitely be considering another Paladin subclass. All the points you make about those spells are absolutely correct. And if role playing constraints allowed too, I would absolutely consider a hexblade. But I only have players handbook options available. Hexblade is not available. Redemption paladin is not available. Crown paladin is not available.
The way I was looking at it was "How do I build the best buffer?" I really liked the Paladin's 6th level aura. So where do you go after level 6? Defensively, another 6 levels of PHB Paladins gives you mainly circumstantial defensive auras several of which will be irrelevant after another player's heroes feast spell, plus, as you point out correctly, 30 extra points of lay on hands. But I could use my 5th level slot for aid, which grants a total of 60 extra hit points, and still have 3 4th level slots left. I think the class levels I've taken are the ones I want. But I'm still stuck on spell choice.
Anyway, my current thinking is spirit guardians (almost certainly) and shield (probably), but since at level 12 there's a good chance we'll have to face a dragon, I would love advice on what spells could help with that.
In my experience, earth bind is a great spell against dragons.
I've got to be upfront, this is quite predicament you're in. Only phb? Sounds barbaric lol. Though, the situation isn't made all that better with magical secrets either since you're stuck with third level spells. Spirit guardians is probably your best option to make the most out of magical secrets, though I still feel crusader's mantle is the better choice, especially when fighting a dragon, and especially with all the added summons from the druid and animate objects.
In general, fighting a dragon with your skill set is going to be an uphill battle that might rely on DM fiat. For example, white dragons are relatively low intelligence, so I was able to RP an exchange where I boasted having a bigger, better hoard. That got the dragon to come down and wail on it in melee. But that may not happen with every DM and they may resort to fly by tactics. Then, in that case, you just have to take cover and shoot whatever you can until the dragon gets sick of waiting and makes landfall. Once it's on the ground, casting bless on everyone might be your best concentration spell, as there's gonna be plenty of saving throws either from frightful presence, breath attack, or wing attacks.
Good advice, overall. Not sure about Earthbind, since the dragon will likely make a Str saving throw, unless it's quite young. Also, many dragons will have Legendary Resistances to make the saving throw, if they happen to fail it.
I ran this character in the one-shot and he was great.
I can't tell you how many times his aura helped the party but it included foiling two Dominate Person spells, preventing poisonings, making every single one of us pass our saves when an ally cast thunderwave, and helping other characters maintain concentration. And it felt good, too. Most characters only get to act on their turn. Between cutting words and the aura, I had an effect on so many of our enemies' turns, too.
He also helped by healing the party, providing lots of extra hit points with aid, casting bless, casting spirit guardians and taking the dodge action (and casting shield if he was targeted by too many foes), and convincing foes to run away with suggestion.
The character may not put out a lot of offense most of the time, but he has access to the 1st-3rd level spells that matter, lots of spells to choose from, can take a punch, and is only two spell slots short of a full caster's slots. So it works!
I should mention that the one shot was my bachelor party. Get it, bachelor *party*? We did a The World's End style pub crawl from the safety of zoom and I named my character Yesdir.