I am a new player seeking assistance with my character.
He is a Goliath Paladin at level 1. My stat dice rolls were 15/14/14/12/11/6. With my racial bonuses as +2 STR and +1 CON, my points after allocations are STR: 16(14+2), DEX 11, CON 16 (15+1), INT 6, WIS 12, CHA 14. *The highest I could get my CHA would be 15 from the get go, so I settled for the 14 so that I can get the most modifiers from my rolls. I also chose to put the 11 in DEX instead of WIS solely for flavor purposes. I don't see a heavily armored half giant being too dexterous.*
As this is my first campaign and first character, Lost Mine of Phandelver, I don't see this character getting past level 5. However, I'd love to be able to be able to go on other adventures with this character if it turns out to be fun. We're going into our 3rd session. We are only a party of four at this moment with the other characters as a Druid (Dreams as dedicated healer), Barbarian (GWF Zealot for melee offense), and a Fighter (Crossbow Arcane Archer for ranged offense). That leaves the defender/ tank role for myself.
He'll be a sword and board fighter. With that being said I'm torn between Protection and Dueling as my fighting style at level 2. If I take Dueling, I'l want to take Sentinel as a feat at level 4. If I take protection, I'll probably take a +2 CHA at level 4 instead. Either way I get a useful reaction. I'm leaning towards the dueling combo, but I am open to criticism and recommendations here. Another option for my 4th level feat would be War Caster or Resilient (CON) or Shield Master.
As for Oaths, I originally wanted to choose Conquest or Ancients. However, the more I read about charisma dependency the more hesitant I am to make these choices. However, this is a low level campaign and this character may not even be used past 1st tier anyway.
At this time, I guess I'm looking for recommendations or tips on the direction I should take going forward with this guy. To summarize: Stats are 16/11/16/6/12/14, Definitely will be the "defender/tank" role, Sword & Board. Thank you for your help!
Protection fighting style is if you are a defender, which as you stated before, you want to be. +2 Cha isn't a very good boost for paladins honestly, though it could be good if you are taking the defender role at level 6+(due to aura of protection) , other than that it only boosts your spellcasting and channel divinity options, compared to a +1 to all attack and damage rolls. Just because you are a defender doesn't mean you can't deal a decent amount of damage.
If you where to take the dueling fighting style I still recommend strength bonus. Sentinel is a decent feat though.
For defender role, I recommend being an redemption paladin, rebuking the violent with your channel divinity, a really good option. If you want the fear that comes with conquest to protect your companions, then choose to do so. Aincients at early levels isn't very protective to fill your role.
Ok so first are you doing Defender or tank? With a Paladin it's a big difference.
If you want to be a tank the recommended Oaths are Devotion or Ancients. You also take the defense fighting style.
If you want to be a defender Crown or Redemption are your best Oaths with Protection fighting style.
Contrary to what alot of people here will recommend with a 16Str Dont invest in it with ASI. If you want it higher aim for boosting it via items. There are more items that boost str than any other stat period.
If you go into later lvls you'll want at least a 16 Cha otherwise your spell DC and Aura and Channel Divinities will be sorely lacking.
As far as feats go you'll definitely want a con saves proficentcy from Resilent or advantage on it right off the bat.
Sentinel and shield master are good depending on what you want to do.
Also dont discount the Tough feat for increased hp. Especially if you want to be a tank.
As a new player I wouldn't recommend going more than 2 feats and 3 ASIs if you take this character that high.
You want at bare minimum a 16 Cha to buff your persuasion and other such skills but mainly to buff you Aura of Courage which is insanely handy to as a Paladin to not only you but other players.
I could go on and on about Paladins and builds for them. I only comment on things regarding Paladins for the most part on these forums if you have any questions feel free to ask.
Level 2: Take Dueling Fighting Style. **Why not Defense fighting style? The +1 AC is nice, but if I'm not getting hit I won't be that attractive of a target. Plus, Dueling paired with Sentinel later down the line increases my damage output making the game more fun. Rolling for better damage and a chance to stop movement is more appealing than higher chances of not getting hit. My melee partner is a barbarian so we'll be able to share plenty of hits between the both of us**
Level 3: Oath of the Ancients **Aura of Warding at Level 7 is extremely attractive. The Channel Divinity Nature's Wrath adds nice control to the battlefield. I prefer the OoC's oath spells better, but the ones for OotA are flavorful enough to have fun with. Also, this subclass feels better with a Goliath from a nomadic tribe in the mountains**
Level 4: Sentinel Feat **This adds a mechanic to my opportunity attacks, locking down at least one enemy if they try to scoot past me. It also punishes enemies who try to attack my melee battle buddy**
And so on... Essentially, by way of hitting opponents a wee bit harder if they choose to not attack me, I'll lock them down. Strategy will be to choose bottlenecks or choke points and capitalize on them. The Barbarian and I can assure safety for our squishier friends, our Druid can help sculpt the battlefield to help with this, and our Fighter/Archer is a min/maxer so he can just chill back and pick off enemies at his whim.
A few things not to hit at your plans but from a mechanical side of things:
1. In regards to fighting on the Frontline A Paladin is always going to be a target you want to take out. You are the biggest Nova dealer in the game. The +2 from Duelist is almost irrelevant when you realize You're spike maximum damage output per a turn can reach 550+ (depending on build.) Joe Manganiello dealt 345 in a turn with Arkhan during a live stream.
You're also a Paladin doing the tank role with a Barbarian. You have to realize in D&D there are different types of tanks. Barbarians tank with absolutely ridiculous HP lvls 350 at lvl 20 without factoring resistance, thus AC isnt really important. Paladins and fighters tank by having a high A. As you stated it's about positioning which is the biggest thing in D&D. Bringing the Enemy into a choke point you're gonna want you're AC high to be as survivable or more so than a Barbarian. I've had my AC high enough where somethings had to crit to hit me because they couldnt otherwise. In this sense and for as little AC additions you can get a +1 to AC is always good.
2. Dont goes after the Ancients Oath for its channel. I can point you to plenty of videos on D&D where they talk about the Oaths where they state that they've rarely ever seen the Ancients channel work and if you're not maxing you're Charisma first then dont count on it too. Even then you're dealing with an ability that's tied to a Dexterity or Strength save, most things are at least proficient in one or the other. The Ancients is good because of its Aura. Resistance to spell damage is always nice. Which when combined with the Paladins ideal weapon the Holy Avenger makes you and you're party absolutely resistant to spell damage. Aura of Warding is amazing for its benefit alone.
While Conquest is appealing at low levels because of its abilities at high levels it suffers and is what I consider a trap. This is due to it being reliant on the fear/frighten effect. The majority of creatures you'll run into at higher levels are outright immune to fear making this ability obsolete.
As another alternative have you looked at the Oath of Devotion? This is the next tankiest Oath of the Paladins. Want to make yourself and most of you're party immune from charms? Devotion is the way to go. Especially if you're playing with a Barbarian that is not a Berserker. If a Barbarian gets charmed it is truly devastating to a party and even more so if it's a Bear Totem Barbarian. Charm spells are very debilitating to a party and at higher lvls alot of things can charm you. Its Channel Divinity is also far more useful than the Ancients.
3. Again the Sentinel feat is nice. However I only ever consider it when using a polearm or if using a very mobile class like a monk. This is generally because as you stated it's about creating funnel points. Most areas you're in a Barbarian and a Paladin can create an effective Wall to prevent things getting around you if you're smart. In situations where you cant do this it's almost irrelevant as they could get around you regardless. Yes the reaction ability is nice but you're other thing going for you especially if you dont have a cleric in the party is buffing spells and if you do individual buff spells are insanely important and you're going to want those to avoid being hit. As covered in the ranking Paladins are attractive targets because of damage spiking. Even at lvl 1 you can potentially deal 70 damage on a crit. This is more than any other class at that lvl. You're going to want spells like Shield of Faith going and if not on you on an ally. As I stated in my last post boosting you're con save should be the absolute first priority as a Paladin. If you dont have a good con save spells like bless, shield of Faith, sanctuary, protection from evil and good all of which are amazing buff spells I've used numerous times become useless. If you're going to take Sentinel doe it as a later ability increase.
Oh , sorry, I mixed the defense fighting style with protection, protection is great for defender builds, defense is only great when you are a champion fighter, because it would be your secondary fighting style.
This depends on what you're going for. D&D beyond also will support this notion. There is an absolute difference between a defender and a tank especially with Paladins and their Oaths.
Defense fighting style is absolutely recommended for tanks. As a Paladin that's being a tank tanks by having a high HP and AC. Where a Barbarian tanks by having high HP and resistance.
I will attest that in my Paladins I've only ever used Defense fighting style because I have always set them up to be tanks on the battlefield. 25 AC at lvl 5 .... yes please. And yes my current character has a 22 AC that I canbuff to 24. At lvl 5 when I get my ring from my Order (AL rules) I'll have a buffed AC to 25. Now bear in mind this isnt high for a Paladin. If I wanted to I could make a Paladin with a 39 AC. Where even a Terasc would need a nat 20 to hit and you cant do this with out defense fighting style.
On top of this a free +1 to AC is insanely good given that a +1 is often the difference from being hit or not.
when it comes to a defender role, I'd like to say something in defense of the Oath Of Conquest, and thus your charisma score. Channel Divinity: Conquering Presence, all enemies in 30 ft of you make a wisdom save, and on a failure are Frightened of you. The Frightened effect keeps them from willingly getting closer, and if your caster is standing behind you this gives you a lot of ability to protect them. it also imposes disadvantage on all attack rolls and ability checks while you are in sight, not just against you but ALL. This provides your allies with protection. Later on, when your Aura of Conquest comes on line, you lock in place all those who are frightened of you, again keeping them away from your squishier team mates (though your team doesn't sound too squishy)
Also as weird as it seems, attacking is also a good way to protect your allies (and Guided Strike can help with that). Since there isn't an AI involved and very limited ways to "draw aggro", you have to make sure your enemies (and DM) have to choose which threats to deal with first.
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Greetings fellow paladins!
I am a new player seeking assistance with my character.
He is a Goliath Paladin at level 1. My stat dice rolls were 15/14/14/12/11/6. With my racial bonuses as +2 STR and +1 CON, my points after allocations are STR: 16(14+2), DEX 11, CON 16 (15+1), INT 6, WIS 12, CHA 14. *The highest I could get my CHA would be 15 from the get go, so I settled for the 14 so that I can get the most modifiers from my rolls. I also chose to put the 11 in DEX instead of WIS solely for flavor purposes. I don't see a heavily armored half giant being too dexterous.*
As this is my first campaign and first character, Lost Mine of Phandelver, I don't see this character getting past level 5. However, I'd love to be able to be able to go on other adventures with this character if it turns out to be fun. We're going into our 3rd session. We are only a party of four at this moment with the other characters as a Druid (Dreams as dedicated healer), Barbarian (GWF Zealot for melee offense), and a Fighter (Crossbow Arcane Archer for ranged offense). That leaves the defender/ tank role for myself.
He'll be a sword and board fighter. With that being said I'm torn between Protection and Dueling as my fighting style at level 2. If I take Dueling, I'l want to take Sentinel as a feat at level 4. If I take protection, I'll probably take a +2 CHA at level 4 instead. Either way I get a useful reaction. I'm leaning towards the dueling combo, but I am open to criticism and recommendations here. Another option for my 4th level feat would be War Caster or Resilient (CON) or Shield Master.
As for Oaths, I originally wanted to choose Conquest or Ancients. However, the more I read about charisma dependency the more hesitant I am to make these choices. However, this is a low level campaign and this character may not even be used past 1st tier anyway.
At this time, I guess I'm looking for recommendations or tips on the direction I should take going forward with this guy. To summarize: Stats are 16/11/16/6/12/14, Definitely will be the "defender/tank" role, Sword & Board. Thank you for your help!
Protection fighting style is if you are a defender, which as you stated before, you want to be. +2 Cha isn't a very good boost for paladins honestly, though it could be good if you are taking the defender role at level 6+(due to aura of protection) , other than that it only boosts your spellcasting and channel divinity options, compared to a +1 to all attack and damage rolls. Just because you are a defender doesn't mean you can't deal a decent amount of damage.
If you where to take the dueling fighting style I still recommend strength bonus. Sentinel is a decent feat though.
For defender role, I recommend being an redemption paladin, rebuking the violent with your channel divinity, a really good option. If you want the fear that comes with conquest to protect your companions, then choose to do so. Aincients at early levels isn't very protective to fill your role.
I hope your build goes well!
Ok so first are you doing Defender or tank? With a Paladin it's a big difference.
If you want to be a tank the recommended Oaths are Devotion or Ancients. You also take the defense fighting style.
If you want to be a defender Crown or Redemption are your best Oaths with Protection fighting style.
Contrary to what alot of people here will recommend with a 16Str Dont invest in it with ASI. If you want it higher aim for boosting it via items. There are more items that boost str than any other stat period.
If you go into later lvls you'll want at least a 16 Cha otherwise your spell DC and Aura and Channel Divinities will be sorely lacking.
As far as feats go you'll definitely want a con saves proficentcy from Resilent or advantage on it right off the bat.
Sentinel and shield master are good depending on what you want to do.
Also dont discount the Tough feat for increased hp. Especially if you want to be a tank.
As a new player I wouldn't recommend going more than 2 feats and 3 ASIs if you take this character that high.
You want at bare minimum a 16 Cha to buff your persuasion and other such skills but mainly to buff you Aura of Courage which is insanely handy to as a Paladin to not only you but other players.
I could go on and on about Paladins and builds for them. I only comment on things regarding Paladins for the most part on these forums if you have any questions feel free to ask.
Thank you both for your input!
I think I have my first few levels thought out,
Level 2: Take Dueling Fighting Style. **Why not Defense fighting style? The +1 AC is nice, but if I'm not getting hit I won't be that attractive of a target. Plus, Dueling paired with Sentinel later down the line increases my damage output making the game more fun. Rolling for better damage and a chance to stop movement is more appealing than higher chances of not getting hit. My melee partner is a barbarian so we'll be able to share plenty of hits between the both of us**
Level 3: Oath of the Ancients **Aura of Warding at Level 7 is extremely attractive. The Channel Divinity Nature's Wrath adds nice control to the battlefield. I prefer the OoC's oath spells better, but the ones for OotA are flavorful enough to have fun with. Also, this subclass feels better with a Goliath from a nomadic tribe in the mountains**
Level 4: Sentinel Feat **This adds a mechanic to my opportunity attacks, locking down at least one enemy if they try to scoot past me. It also punishes enemies who try to attack my melee battle buddy**
And so on... Essentially, by way of hitting opponents a wee bit harder if they choose to not attack me, I'll lock them down. Strategy will be to choose bottlenecks or choke points and capitalize on them. The Barbarian and I can assure safety for our squishier friends, our Druid can help sculpt the battlefield to help with this, and our Fighter/Archer is a min/maxer so he can just chill back and pick off enemies at his whim.
A few things not to hit at your plans but from a mechanical side of things:
1. In regards to fighting on the Frontline A Paladin is always going to be a target you want to take out. You are the biggest Nova dealer in the game. The +2 from Duelist is almost irrelevant when you realize You're spike maximum damage output per a turn can reach 550+ (depending on build.) Joe Manganiello dealt 345 in a turn with Arkhan during a live stream.
You're also a Paladin doing the tank role with a Barbarian. You have to realize in D&D there are different types of tanks. Barbarians tank with absolutely ridiculous HP lvls 350 at lvl 20 without factoring resistance, thus AC isnt really important. Paladins and fighters tank by having a high A. As you stated it's about positioning which is the biggest thing in D&D. Bringing the Enemy into a choke point you're gonna want you're AC high to be as survivable or more so than a Barbarian. I've had my AC high enough where somethings had to crit to hit me because they couldnt otherwise. In this sense and for as little AC additions you can get a +1 to AC is always good.
2. Dont goes after the Ancients Oath for its channel. I can point you to plenty of videos on D&D where they talk about the Oaths where they state that they've rarely ever seen the Ancients channel work and if you're not maxing you're Charisma first then dont count on it too. Even then you're dealing with an ability that's tied to a Dexterity or Strength save, most things are at least proficient in one or the other. The Ancients is good because of its Aura. Resistance to spell damage is always nice. Which when combined with the Paladins ideal weapon the Holy Avenger makes you and you're party absolutely resistant to spell damage. Aura of Warding is amazing for its benefit alone.
While Conquest is appealing at low levels because of its abilities at high levels it suffers and is what I consider a trap. This is due to it being reliant on the fear/frighten effect. The majority of creatures you'll run into at higher levels are outright immune to fear making this ability obsolete.
As another alternative have you looked at the Oath of Devotion? This is the next tankiest Oath of the Paladins. Want to make yourself and most of you're party immune from charms? Devotion is the way to go. Especially if you're playing with a Barbarian that is not a Berserker. If a Barbarian gets charmed it is truly devastating to a party and even more so if it's a Bear Totem Barbarian. Charm spells are very debilitating to a party and at higher lvls alot of things can charm you. Its Channel Divinity is also far more useful than the Ancients.
3. Again the Sentinel feat is nice. However I only ever consider it when using a polearm or if using a very mobile class like a monk. This is generally because as you stated it's about creating funnel points. Most areas you're in a Barbarian and a Paladin can create an effective Wall to prevent things getting around you if you're smart. In situations where you cant do this it's almost irrelevant as they could get around you regardless. Yes the reaction ability is nice but you're other thing going for you especially if you dont have a cleric in the party is buffing spells and if you do individual buff spells are insanely important and you're going to want those to avoid being hit. As covered in the ranking Paladins are attractive targets because of damage spiking. Even at lvl 1 you can potentially deal 70 damage on a crit. This is more than any other class at that lvl. You're going to want spells like Shield of Faith going and if not on you on an ally. As I stated in my last post boosting you're con save should be the absolute first priority as a Paladin. If you dont have a good con save spells like bless, shield of Faith, sanctuary, protection from evil and good all of which are amazing buff spells I've used numerous times become useless. If you're going to take Sentinel doe it as a later ability increase.
Oh , sorry, I mixed the defense fighting style with protection, protection is great for defender builds, defense is only great when you are a champion fighter, because it would be your secondary fighting style.
This depends on what you're going for. D&D beyond also will support this notion. There is an absolute difference between a defender and a tank especially with Paladins and their Oaths.
Defense fighting style is absolutely recommended for tanks. As a Paladin that's being a tank tanks by having a high HP and AC. Where a Barbarian tanks by having high HP and resistance.
I will attest that in my Paladins I've only ever used Defense fighting style because I have always set them up to be tanks on the battlefield. 25 AC at lvl 5 .... yes please. And yes my current character has a 22 AC that I canbuff to 24. At lvl 5 when I get my ring from my Order (AL rules) I'll have a buffed AC to 25. Now bear in mind this isnt high for a Paladin. If I wanted to I could make a Paladin with a 39 AC. Where even a Terasc would need a nat 20 to hit and you cant do this with out defense fighting style.
On top of this a free +1 to AC is insanely good given that a +1 is often the difference from being hit or not.
when it comes to a defender role, I'd like to say something in defense of the Oath Of Conquest, and thus your charisma score. Channel Divinity: Conquering Presence, all enemies in 30 ft of you make a wisdom save, and on a failure are Frightened of you. The Frightened effect keeps them from willingly getting closer, and if your caster is standing behind you this gives you a lot of ability to protect them. it also imposes disadvantage on all attack rolls and ability checks while you are in sight, not just against you but ALL. This provides your allies with protection. Later on, when your Aura of Conquest comes on line, you lock in place all those who are frightened of you, again keeping them away from your squishier team mates (though your team doesn't sound too squishy)
Also as weird as it seems, attacking is also a good way to protect your allies (and Guided Strike can help with that). Since there isn't an AI involved and very limited ways to "draw aggro", you have to make sure your enemies (and DM) have to choose which threats to deal with first.