TL;DR I lack the experience needed to make a well-informed decision between Horizon walker and Gloom stalker
This is my second ever campaign and I'm about to reach 3rd level on my ranger. My character is a Bugbear, and I tend to use archery a little more often than melee combat (so far). This is a PDF of my character sheet for more info. When I'm trying to compare the two subclasses, I feel like I've not had enough experience in the game to know the value of their respective abilities/spells. Thankfully, I've heard that they're both top-tier choices, bit still can't choose between them.
From my perspective:
Spells -
Gloom Stalker seems (to me) to just about outdo Horizon Walker speels-wise. Although the synergy between Haste and Distant strike makes it super close.
Abilities -
To me, Spectral defense, and shadowy dodge are pretty much on par.
Distant strike seems like it's almost objectively better than Stalker's fury, especially when you couple Distant strike with extra attack and Haste, potentially allowing 6 attacks in a single turn (take Attack Action -> teleport -> attack one creature -> teleport -> extra attack on second creature -> teleport -> attack a third creature -> take "Haste" Attack Action -> teleport -> attack one creature -> teleport -> extra attack on second creature -> teleport -> attack a third creature). Whereas Stalker's Fury just allows a reroll on one attack per turn (only if you miss one). (This is the kind of thing I mean when I say I think I'm under/overvaluing certain things)
I'm struggling to weigh Ethereal step and Iron mind up against each other. On one hand, Ethereal step's an awesome get out of jail free card and scouting tool, but on the other hand, I imagine proficiency in one of those saving throws is really useful (although I guess I could just use the resilient feat for that instead)
I already have 60 feet of dark vision, and I'm not sure how useful invisibility to creatures relying on dark sight is. (again, I don't think I've played for long enough to fully appreciate stuff like this). Whereas Planar warrior feels like a perfect default use for my bonus action. Bonus damage, and a way to bypass imunity to non-magical damage.
Detect portal is clearly useless unless my DM decides to slap a few portals into the campaign (right?). But honestly, dread ambusher seems like it wouldn't get used all that often. The main focus of the ability (as far as I see it) is 1d8 extra bonus damage but only on your first turn in combat, much worse than the consistent bonus damage granted by using Planar warrior.
It seems like Gloom stalker is the more well-rounded subclass (especially with how useless Detect portals will likely be), but I just can't get over the mental image of using Distant strike to zip all over the battlefield and get SIX ATTACKS AND 40FT BONUS MOVEMENT PER TURN (with haste). Am I overvaluing this ability?
I'm nowhere near experienced enough to properly appreciate the value of most of these spells/abilities, so please tell me where I've totally misjudged the utility/usefulness of anything. I'm having such a hard time deciding.
Thanks for any help/tips in advance guys, may RNJesus smile upon you
The gloomstalker level 3 damage bump is all front loaded. It actually is 1d8 on top of an entire extra free attack. Once. So the first round of combat you’ll be impressive every time. Many people like the gloomstalker because of this. The horizon walker does it’s level 3 damage pump very well and reliably, and will likely be seen (and felt) every battle ESPECIALLY against things with resistances (until magic weapons get in the mix. I’d advise you to look at each subclass’s damage output over many rounds, at least 3 rounds, probably 4 or 5 rounds. If you only look at a single round of damage the gloomstalker with “objectively stand out as the winner”, but math over time says different.
If you are playing a combat heavy campaign wisdom saves are assays great. This is a passive ability so not flashy. The other is active but more situational (but amazing!).
The horizon walker level 11 bump seems way more fun to me than the gloomstalker’s. Mathematically the gloomstalker stalker ability is more sound, but again passive and kind of a sleeper unless you do the math.
don't overlook the Gloomstalker's ability to be invisible in the shadows! If you are mainly a ranged focus on battles, then this can assist in getting you advantage pretty often!
the level 11 ability, flurry, is also rather good, you get to reroll a miss.
Dread ambush will get used in EVERY fight you have, and the boost to initiative is great.
I've not played, or investigated the Horizon walker too much, so can't balance my comments too well. Gloomstalker is a great sub-class.
The one you may want to look at, as I think it is perhaps the best sub-class now, is Fey Wanderer (likely my next character)
I personally have a ranged level 10 horizon walker and i really love him but i do feel like gloomstalker will probably be the stronger subclass in the end. The bonus you get to the first round is incredible and with umbral sight technically giving you a conditional greater invisibility at level 3, this subclass gets constant advantage if you play your cards right. Furthermore, the gloomstalker can more freely use their bonus action for other things like crossbow expert shots. The out of combat utility they bring seems to be focussed on stealth and intrige
That said, the horizon walker isn't without any merits either. Planar warrior offers strong benefits as long as you decide to stay away from twf or crossbow expert. Furthermore, ethereal step is an absolutely amazing ability that i never gave enough credit before i actually had it. Overall, their out of combat utility focusses much more on mobility with misty step, haste, ethereal step and distant stike (punching the air is fun).
I do want to correct you on distant strike though. With the haste attack action, you only get a single extra attack. Since distant strike only triggers your third attack if you already did two attack in that action, the single attack haste gives you doesn't qualify. So 4 attack total, not 6.
While gloomstalker still seems the stronger option to me, both are definitely good. Ask yourself what you want out of your ranger. Do you want to be an assassin? Or do you want to zip around the battlefield?
Having played both, I honestly prefer the Horizon Walker by a country mile. That's just personal bias tho. I can absolutely acknowledge that if ending encounters quickly is your main goal, the Gloom Stalker is probably better. Their first round is phenomenal, but they do start lagging behind the other Ranger subclasses in subsequent rounds. Still, the biggest thing they have going for them is that they are not Bonus Action dependent, which means you have a free BA to do fun things like Hunter's Mark, Hail of Thorns, Lightning Arrow, Nature's Veil, Crossbow Expert, Two-Weapon Fighting, etc.
The Horizon Walker is the queen of mobility in my experience. Free 20-30 feet of teleportation at level 11 is nothing to sneeze at (and it functionally makes them immune to opportunity attacks.) Misty Step, Ethereal Step (do NOT sleep on this ability, especially outside of combat), and access to Haste are all fantastic ways to have you zipping around the battlefield and be nearly untouchable. Planar Warrior is okay early on but starts losing its luster when you get more and more competition for your BA (Hunter's Mark, Swift Quiver, and Nature's Veil in particular.) That said, with Haste, they're able to strike a single target twice and also attack two other targets, all the while teleporting 30 feet for free (at no action resource cost) and that's just...well, it's just fun.
Basically, you'll be good regardless of which subclass you choose. If you prefer mobility and out of combat utility, I'd say go for the Horizon Walker. If you prefer stealth and DPR, the Gloom Stalker is right for you. While the Gloom Stalker is probably the overall stronger package, I personally prefer the Horizon Walker.
Having played both, I honestly prefer the Horizon Walker by a country mile. That's just personal bias tho. I can absolutely acknowledge that if ending encounters quickly is your main goal, the Gloom Stalker is probably better. Their first round is phenomenal, but they do start lagging behind the other Ranger subclasses in subsequent rounds. Still, the biggest thing they have going for them is that they are not Bonus Action dependent, which means you have a free BA to do fun things like Hunter's Mark, Hail of Thorns, Lightning Arrow, Nature's Veil, Crossbow Expert, Two-Weapon Fighting, etc.
The Horizon Walker is the queen of mobility in my experience. Free 20-30 feet of teleportation at level 11 is nothing to sneeze at (and it functionally makes them immune to opportunity attacks.) Misty Step, Ethereal Step (do NOT sleep on this ability, especially outside of combat), and access to Haste are all fantastic ways to have you zipping around the battlefield and be nearly untouchable. Planar Warrior is okay early on but starts losing its luster when you get more and more competition for your BA (Hunter's Mark, Swift Quiver, and Nature's Veil in particular.) That said, with Haste, they're able to strike a single target twice and also attack two other targets, all the while teleporting 30 feet for free (at no action resource cost) and that's just...well, it's just fun.
Basically, you'll be good regardless of which subclass you choose. If you prefer mobility and out of combat utility, I'd say go for the Horizon Walker. If you prefer stealth and DPR, the Gloom Stalker is right for you. While the Gloom Stalker is probably the overall stronger package, I personally prefer the Horizon Walker.
Oh my god yeah, I didn't pay attention to the "(one weapon attack only)" in the rules for taking the attack action using haste. That helps a lot, since 6 attacks per turn is hard to resist, but 4 is a lot less painful to pass up.
I don't want to be negative, quite the opposite in fact, especially regarding anything ranger related. But regarding the gloomstalker, please don't pick that subclass based entirely on their level 3 damage boost ability. It is impressive single turn damage, but if you divide their damage per round out over 3, 4, or 5 rounds it pretty much falls in line with all of the other ranger subclasses. All of them add 2-4 DPR over 3-5 rounds of combat at level 3. If you are really into the darkness invisible to other creatures thing and/or the wisdom saving throw proficiency then go for it. It's a great subclass! It requires a lot of darkness, but it's a great subclass.
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TL;DR I lack the experience needed to make a well-informed decision between Horizon walker and Gloom stalker
This is my second ever campaign and I'm about to reach 3rd level on my ranger. My character is a Bugbear, and I tend to use archery a little more often than melee combat (so far). This is a PDF of my character sheet for more info. When I'm trying to compare the two subclasses, I feel like I've not had enough experience in the game to know the value of their respective abilities/spells. Thankfully, I've heard that they're both top-tier choices, bit still can't choose between them.
From my perspective:
Spells -
Gloom Stalker seems (to me) to just about outdo Horizon Walker speels-wise. Although the synergy between Haste and Distant strike makes it super close.
Abilities -
To me, Spectral defense, and shadowy dodge are pretty much on par.
Distant strike seems like it's almost objectively better than Stalker's fury, especially when you couple Distant strike with extra attack and Haste, potentially allowing 6 attacks in a single turn (take Attack Action -> teleport -> attack one creature -> teleport -> extra attack on second creature -> teleport -> attack a third creature -> take "Haste" Attack Action -> teleport -> attack one creature -> teleport -> extra attack on second creature -> teleport -> attack a third creature). Whereas Stalker's Fury just allows a reroll on one attack per turn (only if you miss one). (This is the kind of thing I mean when I say I think I'm under/overvaluing certain things)
I'm struggling to weigh Ethereal step and Iron mind up against each other. On one hand, Ethereal step's an awesome get out of jail free card and scouting tool, but on the other hand, I imagine proficiency in one of those saving throws is really useful (although I guess I could just use the resilient feat for that instead)
I already have 60 feet of dark vision, and I'm not sure how useful invisibility to creatures relying on dark sight is. (again, I don't think I've played for long enough to fully appreciate stuff like this). Whereas Planar warrior feels like a perfect default use for my bonus action. Bonus damage, and a way to bypass imunity to non-magical damage.
Detect portal is clearly useless unless my DM decides to slap a few portals into the campaign (right?). But honestly, dread ambusher seems like it wouldn't get used all that often. The main focus of the ability (as far as I see it) is 1d8 extra bonus damage but only on your first turn in combat, much worse than the consistent bonus damage granted by using Planar warrior.
It seems like Gloom stalker is the more well-rounded subclass (especially with how useless Detect portals will likely be), but I just can't get over the mental image of using Distant strike to zip all over the battlefield and get SIX ATTACKS AND 40FT BONUS MOVEMENT PER TURN (with haste). Am I overvaluing this ability?
I'm nowhere near experienced enough to properly appreciate the value of most of these spells/abilities, so please tell me where I've totally misjudged the utility/usefulness of anything. I'm having such a hard time deciding.
Thanks for any help/tips in advance guys, may RNJesus smile upon you
The gloomstalker level 3 damage bump is all front loaded. It actually is 1d8 on top of an entire extra free attack. Once. So the first round of combat you’ll be impressive every time. Many people like the gloomstalker because of this. The horizon walker does it’s level 3 damage pump very well and reliably, and will likely be seen (and felt) every battle ESPECIALLY against things with resistances (until magic weapons get in the mix. I’d advise you to look at each subclass’s damage output over many rounds, at least 3 rounds, probably 4 or 5 rounds. If you only look at a single round of damage the gloomstalker with “objectively stand out as the winner”, but math over time says different.
If you are playing a combat heavy campaign wisdom saves are assays great. This is a passive ability so not flashy. The other is active but more situational (but amazing!).
The horizon walker level 11 bump seems way more fun to me than the gloomstalker’s. Mathematically the gloomstalker stalker ability is more sound, but again passive and kind of a sleeper unless you do the math.
don't overlook the Gloomstalker's ability to be invisible in the shadows! If you are mainly a ranged focus on battles, then this can assist in getting you advantage pretty often!
the level 11 ability, flurry, is also rather good, you get to reroll a miss.
Dread ambush will get used in EVERY fight you have, and the boost to initiative is great.
I've not played, or investigated the Horizon walker too much, so can't balance my comments too well. Gloomstalker is a great sub-class.
The one you may want to look at, as I think it is perhaps the best sub-class now, is Fey Wanderer (likely my next character)
I personally have a ranged level 10 horizon walker and i really love him but i do feel like gloomstalker will probably be the stronger subclass in the end. The bonus you get to the first round is incredible and with umbral sight technically giving you a conditional greater invisibility at level 3, this subclass gets constant advantage if you play your cards right. Furthermore, the gloomstalker can more freely use their bonus action for other things like crossbow expert shots. The out of combat utility they bring seems to be focussed on stealth and intrige
That said, the horizon walker isn't without any merits either. Planar warrior offers strong benefits as long as you decide to stay away from twf or crossbow expert. Furthermore, ethereal step is an absolutely amazing ability that i never gave enough credit before i actually had it. Overall, their out of combat utility focusses much more on mobility with misty step, haste, ethereal step and distant stike (punching the air is fun).
I do want to correct you on distant strike though. With the haste attack action, you only get a single extra attack. Since distant strike only triggers your third attack if you already did two attack in that action, the single attack haste gives you doesn't qualify. So 4 attack total, not 6.
While gloomstalker still seems the stronger option to me, both are definitely good. Ask yourself what you want out of your ranger. Do you want to be an assassin? Or do you want to zip around the battlefield?
Having played both, I honestly prefer the Horizon Walker by a country mile. That's just personal bias tho. I can absolutely acknowledge that if ending encounters quickly is your main goal, the Gloom Stalker is probably better. Their first round is phenomenal, but they do start lagging behind the other Ranger subclasses in subsequent rounds. Still, the biggest thing they have going for them is that they are not Bonus Action dependent, which means you have a free BA to do fun things like Hunter's Mark, Hail of Thorns, Lightning Arrow, Nature's Veil, Crossbow Expert, Two-Weapon Fighting, etc.
The Horizon Walker is the queen of mobility in my experience. Free 20-30 feet of teleportation at level 11 is nothing to sneeze at (and it functionally makes them immune to opportunity attacks.) Misty Step, Ethereal Step (do NOT sleep on this ability, especially outside of combat), and access to Haste are all fantastic ways to have you zipping around the battlefield and be nearly untouchable. Planar Warrior is okay early on but starts losing its luster when you get more and more competition for your BA (Hunter's Mark, Swift Quiver, and Nature's Veil in particular.) That said, with Haste, they're able to strike a single target twice and also attack two other targets, all the while teleporting 30 feet for free (at no action resource cost) and that's just...well, it's just fun.
Basically, you'll be good regardless of which subclass you choose. If you prefer mobility and out of combat utility, I'd say go for the Horizon Walker. If you prefer stealth and DPR, the Gloom Stalker is right for you. While the Gloom Stalker is probably the overall stronger package, I personally prefer the Horizon Walker.
Oh my god yeah, I didn't pay attention to the "(one weapon attack only)" in the rules for taking the attack action using haste. That helps a lot, since 6 attacks per turn is hard to resist, but 4 is a lot less painful to pass up.
I don't want to be negative, quite the opposite in fact, especially regarding anything ranger related. But regarding the gloomstalker, please don't pick that subclass based entirely on their level 3 damage boost ability. It is impressive single turn damage, but if you divide their damage per round out over 3, 4, or 5 rounds it pretty much falls in line with all of the other ranger subclasses. All of them add 2-4 DPR over 3-5 rounds of combat at level 3. If you are really into the darkness invisible to other creatures thing and/or the wisdom saving throw proficiency then go for it. It's a great subclass! It requires a lot of darkness, but it's a great subclass.