Longtime lurker, first time poster. I'm about to start a new Campaign, and I'm really exited to used Fey Wanderer. I'm trying to imagine how this would play out in combat at later levels.
Scenario: (level 11)
Start combat, use fey reinforcements to summon a fey for free for 1 minute with no concentration. Have it use mirthful to charm an enemy, and if it fails, bounce it back to potentially cause fear on a different enemy with beguiling twist.
2nd turn, summon a second fey using a spell slot with concentration, attempt charm with both, if charm misses with one, use beguiling twist. Rinse, repeat.
Now I'm wondering, how effective would it be for me to charm or frighten enemies in an average encounter with this method? Is it even worth it? Best case scenario, charmed enemies cant attack me and attack somebody else. Do they snap out of it if they get attacked?
Now making enemies frightened seems crazy good if I can pull it off with a beguiling twist bounce back, given they can't get close to me and get disadvantage on attacks if they can see me.
Isn't fear almost always better than charmed in combat? Can I cause frightened and charmed in the same enemy at the same time? How effective/useful is this to my party? Am I missing something here?
Mirthful charm ends on the target when they're damaged, not attacked. That's damaged for any reason, including falling.
Frightened and charmed are completely legal simultaneously, and yes, in general frightened is a better effect. Note that mirthful charms the target by both the summoned spirit and you, so it's more protection than just a single charmed effect, but beguiling twist is only you.
The biggest problem with your combo is having 2 fey out at once - stick to one, since you only have one reaction, and have that one spam charm - remember, you can charm a charmed target and you can charm a frightened target. That way you can generally guarantee one target every turn is either charmed or frightened anew by you, which makes you a reasonably credible tank. The biggest problem remaining is that you can't twist the charm target, so the combo relies on facing at least two targets at once. In a big boss fight, you'll have to rely on plan B, which is a terrible plan: have the fey charm you or your allies (whoever has the best save) and hope it fails so you can bounce it as a frighten into the boss.
I suspected that charmed worked that way, an I suppose it makes it quite a bit less useful, at least in combat.
I didn't realize that mirthful worked that way, I'm glad is asked!
I understand that beguiling twist can only be used once per turn as a reaction, and only by me, but the fey aren't going to necessarily fail to charm every turn. There may be some turns, if I have two fey charm-spamming, that the both manage to charm, and I cant make use of beguiling twist. Or there may be some turns where they both fail to charm and I can only use BT once. My point is, having the second fey naturally doubles my chances to cause fear, without me investing in a feat that gives me a fear spell that burns up a spell slot. Not to mention both fey get to attack, since mirthful is a bonus action.
It seems to me that summon a second fey is a better use of my concentration, at least from a dps aspect, than keeping up my hunter's mark. I would only consider using this tactic against more than one enemy, with some discretion. And in the very unlikely scenario that, if say everything at one point becomes charmed/ frightened at maximum capacity, I could use both fey to use tricksy to cause 5ft of magical darkness on enemies.
I definitely think your idea has its uses. There will be times when what you're suggesting is the best course of action. I wouldn't default to this strategy, however. It's very situation-dependent. When the situations come up where you can use this (trust me, you'll know,) then bam. Be as brutal as possible (or as charming/frightening as possible, as the case may be.)
One suggestion I'd like to mention: Instead of spending two of your turns summoning two Fey creatures, you can summon one outside of combat (the one you'll be using your concentration on,) since --with concentration-- the Fey lasts an hour (same duration as Hunter's Mark and Pass Without Trace, actually.) Summon it before you get into a scrap, then summon the free, no-concentration one on your first turn. That way, you'll be ready to go much quicker.
Longtime lurker, first time poster. I'm about to start a new Campaign, and I'm really exited to used Fey Wanderer. I'm trying to imagine how this would play out in combat at later levels.
Scenario: (level 11)
Start combat, use fey reinforcements to summon a fey for free for 1 minute with no concentration. Have it use mirthful to charm an enemy, and if it fails, bounce it back to potentially cause fear on a different enemy with beguiling twist.
2nd turn, summon a second fey using a spell slot with concentration, attempt charm with both, if charm misses with one, use beguiling twist. Rinse, repeat.
Now I'm wondering, how effective would it be for me to charm or frighten enemies in an average encounter with this method? Is it even worth it? Best case scenario, charmed enemies cant attack me and attack somebody else. Do they snap out of it if they get attacked?
Now making enemies frightened seems crazy good if I can pull it off with a beguiling twist bounce back, given they can't get close to me and get disadvantage on attacks if they can see me.
Isn't fear almost always better than charmed in combat? Can I cause frightened and charmed in the same enemy at the same time? How effective/useful is this to my party? Am I missing something here?
Mirthful charm ends on the target when they're damaged, not attacked. That's damaged for any reason, including falling.
Frightened and charmed are completely legal simultaneously, and yes, in general frightened is a better effect. Note that mirthful charms the target by both the summoned spirit and you, so it's more protection than just a single charmed effect, but beguiling twist is only you.
The biggest problem with your combo is having 2 fey out at once - stick to one, since you only have one reaction, and have that one spam charm - remember, you can charm a charmed target and you can charm a frightened target. That way you can generally guarantee one target every turn is either charmed or frightened anew by you, which makes you a reasonably credible tank. The biggest problem remaining is that you can't twist the charm target, so the combo relies on facing at least two targets at once. In a big boss fight, you'll have to rely on plan B, which is a terrible plan: have the fey charm you or your allies (whoever has the best save) and hope it fails so you can bounce it as a frighten into the boss.
I suspected that charmed worked that way, an I suppose it makes it quite a bit less useful, at least in combat.
I didn't realize that mirthful worked that way, I'm glad is asked!
I understand that beguiling twist can only be used once per turn as a reaction, and only by me, but the fey aren't going to necessarily fail to charm every turn. There may be some turns, if I have two fey charm-spamming, that the both manage to charm, and I cant make use of beguiling twist. Or there may be some turns where they both fail to charm and I can only use BT once. My point is, having the second fey naturally doubles my chances to cause fear, without me investing in a feat that gives me a fear spell that burns up a spell slot. Not to mention both fey get to attack, since mirthful is a bonus action.
It seems to me that summon a second fey is a better use of my concentration, at least from a dps aspect, than keeping up my hunter's mark. I would only consider using this tactic against more than one enemy, with some discretion. And in the very unlikely scenario that, if say everything at one point becomes charmed/ frightened at maximum capacity, I could use both fey to use tricksy to cause 5ft of magical darkness on enemies.
I definitely think your idea has its uses. There will be times when what you're suggesting is the best course of action. I wouldn't default to this strategy, however. It's very situation-dependent. When the situations come up where you can use this (trust me, you'll know,) then bam. Be as brutal as possible (or as charming/frightening as possible, as the case may be.)
One suggestion I'd like to mention: Instead of spending two of your turns summoning two Fey creatures, you can summon one outside of combat (the one you'll be using your concentration on,) since --with concentration-- the Fey lasts an hour (same duration as Hunter's Mark and Pass Without Trace, actually.) Summon it before you get into a scrap, then summon the free, no-concentration one on your first turn. That way, you'll be ready to go much quicker.
Yes it is pretty situational, but best case scenario if all the pieces fell into place, wow, what a fun strategy.
That's a good point! I totally forgot I could summon one beforehand. Thank you!
Just be aware that at higher levels several creatures are immune to both Charm and Frighten.