Curious for input on a 2024 Gloomstalker build for my next campaign.
This will only be my 2nd build, so much is still new. I'm pretty fine with Hunter's Mark + shooting arrows for decent DPR. But also really dig the utility beyond combat (skills, minor spells) a DEX/WIS Ranger brings. I know some early damage has been nerfed, but seems a bit more balanced now?
Two main questions: 1) Longbow means I should aim for 13 STR for GWM. Already a bit MAD. We roll for stats, so have an okay chance of decent spread. Need high DEX & WIS, and CON can't drop too low. Would folks try crossbow? Main concern is using up BA (needed for Hunters Mark, etc.) and it's feat-intensive, no?
2) Umbral Sight: Powerful yes, but worried its use is too highly variable? Few of my combats in my ~year of D&D have involved much darkness. Question: Could using Hide reliably help approximate this? Thinking Goblin, which can Hide as BA and has other perks, is good thematically.
Curious for input on a 2024 Gloomstalker build for my next campaign.
This will only be my 2nd build, so much is still new. I'm pretty fine with Hunter's Mark + shooting arrows for decent DPR. But also really dig the utility beyond combat (skills, minor spells) a DEX/WIS Ranger brings. I know some early damage has been nerfed, but seems a bit more balanced now?
Two main questions: 1) Longbow means I should aim for 13 STR for GWM. Already a bit MAD. We roll for stats, so have an okay chance of decent spread. Need high DEX & WIS, and CON can't drop too low. Would folks try crossbow? Main concern is using up BA (needed for Hunters Mark, etc.) and it's feat-intensive, no?
2) Umbral Sight: Powerful yes, but worried its use is too highly variable? Few of my combats in my ~year of D&D have involved much darkness. Question: Could using Hide reliably help approximate this? Thinking Goblin, which can Hide as BA and has other perks, is good thematically.
Thoughts?
With long bow would be Dexterity and take sharpshooter, even though they nerfed the damage option, they removed the disadvantage for close combat. Hence you would not have to juggle 4 scores, if going point buy, unless you roll better than me.
Also remember, in darkness as a Gloomstalker you have invisible condition “anyways “ dim light etc would have to be how your dm rules that part (it’s subjective). So you wouldn’t need hide feature in darkness and having the extra sight, if you have 60 already, makes you a great scout.
Right. But you don't really control if combat happens in darkness. As mentioned, I can't recall a battle we've had thus far where there would have been any darkness. It's the only campaign I have for reference, so just hoping either: A) it is something that usually comes up in campaigns, and/or B) to find a backup to approximate the effect, like Hide. Which I've never used, nor Cover.
Sharpshooter - not confident the new version is worth taking (with limited feats)? Are folks using it on 2024 archer builds? It seemed to me that GWM would give a reliable damage boost that scales. I dunno, limited experience.
GWM does give a damage boost but longbows are Dex weapons not strength so while you could add the damage you get nothing else. As a bow user you don’t use strength at all , even heavy property notes that ranged weapons ( longbow) require a 13+ in Dex not strength.sharpshooter covers the 3 major potential problems that ranged weapon users have: 1) disadvantage in melee range (5’), 2) ignores half (+2 AC) and 3/4 (+5AC) cover, 3) disadvantage at long range ( the least of the 3 as you will seldom be outside of the longbow’s 150’ range, but those situations do occur). Further you will want the archery fighting style at L2 - that +2 (+10%) to hit is a big deal on dpr.
Totally - that all sounds important. I guess my DM hasn't used much or any cover in our combat either, haha. Been a lot of wide-open spaces. so no experience with those challenges yet. I was just trying to eke out some more damage since both Sharpshooter and the Gloomstalker's damage have been nerfed.
Occurred to me though, that if I am considering Goblin, they can't use Longbows anyway, being small creatures, right? In that case, the added range from Sharpshooter seems much more useful.
And yeah, Archery Fighting Style for sure. Any ideas for more damage on a build like this?
Occurred to me though, that if I am considering Goblin, they can't use Longbows anyway, being small creatures, right? In that case, the added range from Sharpshooter seems much more useful.
In 2024 rules, as long as you're DEX is 13 or higher, you can use a heavy ranged weapon.
Use heavy xbow. L you want to push people together for that lvl 11 feature. Telekenetic can also be good and help out in doing this too on turns your not holding BA for hunters mark.
Push could be cool. Heavy Xbow can’t use Crossbow Master right? Which I guess would open up my BA after 1st round for some spell or yeah feats like Telekentic to push & pull regularly.
Being so ASI/feat-starved though feels like you can’t afford to not raise your DEX, either by 2 or by 1 from a feat.
“Goblin, they can't use Longbows anyway, being small creatures, right? I”
That’s not applicable in 2024. Just need dex ability score only. But I would consult with your table (just in case). That’s the RAW.
Sharpshooter is still worth getting, and since Rangers got worse in 2024 compared to other classes, as example we homebrewed SS to provide damage = PB like GWM. But that’s our change because we rangers revolted
Sharpshooter is still worth getting, and since Rangers got worse in 2024 compared to other classes, as example we homebrewed SS to provide damage = PB like GWM. But that’s our change because we rangers revolted
That sounds like a cool & sensible homebrew rule. I like how it parallels GWM.
Push could be cool. Heavy Xbow can’t use Crossbow Master right? Which I guess would open up my BA after 1st round for some spell or yeah feats like Telekentic to push & pull regularly.
Heavy crossbow does not benefit from the dual wielding part of crossbow expert, but you still need the feat for the ignore loading part.
Heavy crossbow CAN use xbow master but not the dual wielding bullet. It’s essentially required that martials taking a crossbow take it at L4 or as soon after as possible since it removes the loading property lthat limits them to 1 shot/action even if they have extra shots. N ‘24 it’s also limited to xbow only so other weapons with loading don’t benefit from it. Both xbow expertises and sharpshooter provide a +1 Dex boost so that is covered smoothly. If feats are allowed and your using a heavy xbow for the D10 damage you want to take CBE at L4, then SS as soon after as possible for the range and cover benefits. If your not using a xbow take SS at L 4 it provides everything you need ( that is available) for ranged weapons. Many tables don’t allow firearms but some of those that do also homebrew CBE to include them or any ranged weapon with the loading property so check with your table.
So at level 5, when extra attacks comes, a Ranger with Crossbow Expert can shoot twice with their Heavy Crossbow, one on each of their main attacks. No bonus action, correct?
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Heavy Crossbow for more damage & Push, Xbow Expert at 4, Sharpshooter at 8. Bonus Action is free for: Hunter's Mark 1st round, then mix of spells like Hail of Thorns or Ensnaring Strike for extra damage/control. If I went Goblin, could also use BA to Disengage/Hide if needed and also get a little extra damage. Not crazy damage output, but still decent. Not sure if there are better ways to boost?
Plenty of skill utility. And kind of like the idea of a Goblin with a Heavy Crossbow as big as him being sneaky and such.
Heavy Crossbow for more damage & Push, Xbow Expert at 4, Sharpshooter at 8. Bonus Action is free for: Hunter's Mark 1st round, then mix of spells like Hail of Thorns or Ensnaring Strike for extra damage/control. If I went Goblin, could also use BA to Disengage/Hide if needed and also get a little extra damage. Not crazy damage output, but still decent. Not sure if there are better ways to boost?
Plenty of skill utility. And kind of like the idea of a Goblin with a Heavy Crossbow as big as him being sneaky and such.
And target getting a cloak of displacement (as it will fill in with the theme). Bug your dm, or have an artificer in the group
... and Bracers of Archery for another +2 damage if you go longbow over HXbow. Longbow+bracers 1d8+2=6.5 avg, HXbow 1d10=5.5 avg.
A low level advantage as it is attunement, and as it is only uncommon a reasonable chance of getting one.
Piercer Feat is also solid. once per turn reroll piercing damage, so that d10 for HXbow average can go up if you roll low (can reroll as a 1 though so random) and an extra die on a critical.
Oh Right, Piercer. That’s why I was thinking if I could get away with skipping Sharpshooter. Cuz with any non-fighter build, only two regular feats before level 12. So ideally would want two DEX feats to hopefully max out DEX at level 8. Having to take three DEX feats means you delay that til 12 or waste the +1 bonus. Which I guess is alright?
Like would prefer to take Xbow Expert & Piercer at 4 & 8 and be done. But if I have to deal with cover, then I’d probably not want to wait til level 12 for SS. It just hasn’t come up much or at all at my table so far.
Piercer enhances damage but not by as much as you might think. The stat bullet effectively enhances your “to hit” by 2.5% (+1= a +5% but you get the +1 to hit every 2 stat steps and piercer only moves you 1 step). Useful but not really fantastic. The second bullet about rerolling a damage die is harder to figure but your only rerolling when you roll below average and you have to take the new roll so your 3 on a D10 could just as easily turn into a 1 or 2 as a 9 or 10. My quickie guesstimate is that it pro ly raise DPR by no more than 0.2 or 0.3. The third bullet - the critical - gives you one extra d10 ( hvy xbow) 5% of the time so 5.5 x 0.05=0.275 added to DPR. Sharpshooter may not add damage but it adds hits which is really the same thing. Figure the removing disadvantage/+2 AC/+5 AC so that is +4/+2/+5 to hit or (.2x5.5=1.1), (.1x5.5=0.55), (.25x 5.5=1.375) damage depending on conditions. All of which are as good or better than the added dpr of piercer.
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Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
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Curious for input on a 2024 Gloomstalker build for my next campaign.
This will only be my 2nd build, so much is still new. I'm pretty fine with Hunter's Mark + shooting arrows for decent DPR. But also really dig the utility beyond combat (skills, minor spells) a DEX/WIS Ranger brings. I know some early damage has been nerfed, but seems a bit more balanced now?
Two main questions: 1) Longbow means I should aim for 13 STR for GWM. Already a bit MAD. We roll for stats, so have an okay chance of decent spread. Need high DEX & WIS, and CON can't drop too low. Would folks try crossbow? Main concern is using up BA (needed for Hunters Mark, etc.) and it's feat-intensive, no?
2) Umbral Sight: Powerful yes, but worried its use is too highly variable? Few of my combats in my ~year of D&D have involved much darkness. Question: Could using Hide reliably help approximate this? Thinking Goblin, which can Hide as BA and has other perks, is good thematically.
Thoughts?
With long bow would be Dexterity and take sharpshooter, even though they nerfed the damage option, they removed the disadvantage for close combat. Hence you would not have to juggle 4 scores, if going point buy, unless you roll better than me.
Also remember, in darkness as a Gloomstalker you have invisible condition “anyways “ dim light etc would have to be how your dm rules that part (it’s subjective). So you wouldn’t need hide feature in darkness and having the extra sight, if you have 60 already, makes you a great scout.
Right. But you don't really control if combat happens in darkness. As mentioned, I can't recall a battle we've had thus far where there would have been any darkness. It's the only campaign I have for reference, so just hoping either: A) it is something that usually comes up in campaigns, and/or B) to find a backup to approximate the effect, like Hide. Which I've never used, nor Cover.
Sharpshooter - not confident the new version is worth taking (with limited feats)? Are folks using it on 2024 archer builds? It seemed to me that GWM would give a reliable damage boost that scales. I dunno, limited experience.
GWM does give a damage boost but longbows are Dex weapons not strength so while you could add the damage you get nothing else. As a bow user you don’t use strength at all , even heavy property notes that ranged weapons ( longbow) require a 13+ in Dex not strength.sharpshooter covers the 3 major potential problems that ranged weapon users have: 1) disadvantage in melee range (5’), 2) ignores half (+2 AC) and 3/4 (+5AC) cover, 3) disadvantage at long range ( the least of the 3 as you will seldom be outside of the longbow’s 150’ range, but those situations do occur). Further you will want the archery fighting style at L2 - that +2 (+10%) to hit is a big deal on dpr.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Totally - that all sounds important. I guess my DM hasn't used much or any cover in our combat either, haha. Been a lot of wide-open spaces. so no experience with those challenges yet. I was just trying to eke out some more damage since both Sharpshooter and the Gloomstalker's damage have been nerfed.
Occurred to me though, that if I am considering Goblin, they can't use Longbows anyway, being small creatures, right? In that case, the added range from Sharpshooter seems much more useful.
And yeah, Archery Fighting Style for sure. Any ideas for more damage on a build like this?
In 2024 rules, as long as you're DEX is 13 or higher, you can use a heavy ranged weapon.
Use heavy xbow. L you want to push people together for that lvl 11 feature. Telekenetic can also be good and help out in doing this too on turns your not holding BA for hunters mark.
Push could be cool. Heavy Xbow can’t use Crossbow Master right? Which I guess would open up my BA after 1st round for some spell or yeah feats like Telekentic to push & pull regularly.
Being so ASI/feat-starved though feels like you can’t afford to not raise your DEX, either by 2 or by 1 from a feat.
“Goblin, they can't use Longbows anyway, being small creatures, right? I”
That’s not applicable in 2024. Just need dex ability score only. But I would consult with your table (just in case). That’s the RAW.
Sharpshooter is still worth getting, and since Rangers got worse in 2024 compared to other classes, as example we homebrewed SS to provide damage = PB like GWM. But that’s our change because we rangers revolted
That sounds like a cool & sensible homebrew rule. I like how it parallels GWM.
Heavy crossbow does not benefit from the dual wielding part of crossbow expert, but you still need the feat for the ignore loading part.
Heavy crossbow CAN use xbow master but not the dual wielding bullet. It’s essentially required that martials taking a crossbow take it at L4 or as soon after as possible since it removes the loading property lthat limits them to 1 shot/action even if they have extra shots. N ‘24 it’s also limited to xbow only so other weapons with loading don’t benefit from it. Both xbow expertises and sharpshooter provide a +1 Dex boost so that is covered smoothly. If feats are allowed and your using a heavy xbow for the D10 damage you want to take CBE at L4, then SS as soon after as possible for the range and cover benefits. If your not using a xbow take SS at L 4 it provides everything you need ( that is available) for ranged weapons. Many tables don’t allow firearms but some of those that do also homebrew CBE to include them or any ranged weapon with the loading property so check with your table.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Very helpful everyone thank you. 🙏
So at level 5, when extra attacks comes, a Ranger with Crossbow Expert can shoot twice with their Heavy Crossbow, one on each of their main attacks. No bonus action, correct?
Yes.
If you're not willing or able to to discuss in good faith, then don't be surprised if I don't respond, there are better things in life for me to do than humour you. This signature is that response.
Very cool. I can kinda see this coming together:
Heavy Crossbow for more damage & Push, Xbow Expert at 4, Sharpshooter at 8. Bonus Action is free for: Hunter's Mark 1st round, then mix of spells like Hail of Thorns or Ensnaring Strike for extra damage/control. If I went Goblin, could also use BA to Disengage/Hide if needed and also get a little extra damage. Not crazy damage output, but still decent. Not sure if there are better ways to boost?
Plenty of skill utility. And kind of like the idea of a Goblin with a Heavy Crossbow as big as him being sneaky and such.
And target getting a cloak of displacement (as it will fill in with the theme). Bug your dm, or have an artificer in the group
... and Bracers of Archery for another +2 damage if you go longbow over HXbow. Longbow+bracers 1d8+2=6.5 avg, HXbow 1d10=5.5 avg.
A low level advantage as it is attunement, and as it is only uncommon a reasonable chance of getting one.
Piercer Feat is also solid. once per turn reroll piercing damage, so that d10 for HXbow average can go up if you roll low (can reroll as a 1 though so random) and an extra die on a critical.
Life's hard - get a helmet!
Oh Right, Piercer. That’s why I was thinking if I could get away with skipping Sharpshooter. Cuz with any non-fighter build, only two regular feats before level 12. So ideally would want two DEX feats to hopefully max out DEX at level 8. Having to take three DEX feats means you delay that til 12 or waste the +1 bonus. Which I guess is alright?
Like would prefer to take Xbow Expert & Piercer at 4 & 8 and be done. But if I have to deal with cover, then I’d probably not want to wait til level 12 for SS. It just hasn’t come up much or at all at my table so far.
When your DM gets tired of you slaughtering his minions from afar you’ll start seeing lots of cover 😀🤪
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.
Piercer enhances damage but not by as much as you might think. The stat bullet effectively enhances your “to hit” by 2.5% (+1= a +5% but you get the +1 to hit every 2 stat steps and piercer only moves you 1 step). Useful but not really fantastic. The second bullet about rerolling a damage die is harder to figure but your only rerolling when you roll below average and you have to take the new roll so your 3 on a D10 could just as easily turn into a 1 or 2 as a 9 or 10. My quickie guesstimate is that it pro ly raise DPR by no more than 0.2 or 0.3. The third bullet - the critical - gives you one extra d10 ( hvy xbow) 5% of the time so 5.5 x 0.05=0.275 added to DPR. Sharpshooter may not add damage but it adds hits which is really the same thing. Figure the removing disadvantage/+2 AC/+5 AC so that is +4/+2/+5 to hit or (.2x5.5=1.1), (.1x5.5=0.55), (.25x 5.5=1.375) damage depending on conditions. All of which are as good or better than the added dpr of piercer.
Wisea$$ DM and Player since 1979.