I am a noob to 5e and am confused about how a Rogue gets to use Two Weapon Fighting.
As I read it a Bonus Action is needed to use the second weapon and Bonus Actions are given by 'class features, spells and abilities'. What class feature, spell or ability would give this Bonus to a Rogue?
When Two-Weapon Fighting, you take a bonus action to attack with a different weapon. Since you can take only one bonus action on your turn, you you can either use it for that or for other ability such as Cunning Action.
I understand that you can only take 1 Bonus Action per turn, but having a Bonus Action in the first place is stated by the rules to be granted by 'class features, spells and abilities'. So presumably without said 'class feature, spell or ability' the character has 0 Bonus Actions to use.
I don't see what specific 'class feature, spell or ability' grants the Bonus Action? If it is the Two Weapon Fighting rule section itself that grants the bonus, then the Bonus Actions rule section is badly worded, as I don't see how the Two Weapon Fighting rule section can be read as being a 'class feature, spell or ability'.
I understand that you can only take 1 Bonus Action per turn, but having a Bonus Action in the first place is stated by the rules to be granted by 'class features, spells and abilities'. So presumably without said 'class feature, spell or ability' the character has 0 Bonus Actions to use.
I don't see what specific 'class feature, spell or ability' grants the Bonus Action? If it is the Two Weapon Fighting rule section itself that grants the bonus, then the Bonus Actions rule section is badly worded, as I don't see how the Two Weapon Fighting rule section can be read as being a 'class feature, spell or ability'.
These are the most probable sources of bonus actions. Two-Weapon Fighting would be akin to ability, others could be granted by traits, magic item powers, terrain etc... Basically if something say it can be done as a bonus action, then it is. If you have nothing at your disposal to do as a bonus action, then you don't have any.
If you wonder what feature or ability does a Rogue get as a bonus action, here's an exemple;
Cunning Action: Starting at 2nd level, your quick thinking and agility allow you to move and act quickly. You can take a bonus action on each of your turns in combat. This action can be used only to take the Dash, Disengage, or Hide action.
The wording is not the same across these 4. They say either "you can use a bonus action" (Handbook, Essentials and Basic) or "you gain a bonus action" (Starter). The latter is clearer in intent. I was originally reading the former version of the wording in the Essentials book which led to my question, as saying you can use a Bonus Action is not the same as saying that you have one. Whereas gaining a Bonus Action implies that you now have one.
The wording in the Starter Set rulebook makes sense to me. If I had read that first I wouldn't have been confused. The wording in the other 3 sources seems very confusing. Anyway, I now understand how to apply the rule. Thanks for your help.
Two-weapon fighting is not always the best way to go. Your offhand doesn't get the bonus to damage that your mainhand does. Yes, two shots are delivering your sneak attack is always good, but if you dip 1 level into fighter you can go rapier and shield (+2 dmg per hit / +2 AC) thanks to dueling fighting style and the shield. You can use your bonus action to dash / disengage or hide which are all very incredibly useful for a rogue.
Pick up the Sentinel feat and you can get off more than 1 sneak attack per turn.
The wording in the Starter Set rulebook makes sense to me. If I had read that first I wouldn't have been confused. The wording in the other 3 sources seems very confusing. Anyway, I now understand how to apply the rule. Thanks for your help.
I think part of the confusion is what is being meant by bonus action in different places.
Every player gets to perform one action, one bonus action, one object interaction and one reaction during every round of combat. You can think of these as resources that you "spend" in order to perform one of the actions, bonus actions or reactions listed on your sheet (while you use the object interaction to do stuff like draw a weapon, open a door etc.).
All characters also have access to a basic set of actions that they are capable of performing, plus the one bonus action (Two Weapon Fighting) and one reaction (attack of opportunity). You will then gain more options via your race and/or class. So a 2nd level Rogue in addition to Two Weapon Fighting can also choose Cunning Action, but you can still only take one bonus action per turn; so each turn you need to choose to use one of these, or skip your bonus action if none of them will benefit you.
I think where it gets confusing is that the book uses the term "action" or "bonus action" to refer both to the options a character has, and to the limits that they have (usually one of each per turn). So while a character might have six actions listed on their sheet, they can pick one, and only one, to be their action for the turn, same for their bonus action(s) and so-on.
Two-weapon fighting is not always the best way to go. Your offhand doesn't get the bonus to damage that your mainhand does. Yes, two shots are delivering your sneak attack is always good, but if you dip 1 level into fighter you can go rapier and shield (+2 dmg per hit / +2 AC) thanks to dueling fighting style and the shield. You can use your bonus action to dash / disengage or hide which are all very incredibly useful for a rogue.
I wouldn't focus too much on the damage you lose for the off-hand attack, because it's never going to be as high as missing with your sneak attack. This is why I tend to prefer dual shortswords or dual daggers (or one of each) on a Rogue, as while I might prefer to use my bonus action to disengage or such, if I screw up the main attack and really needed to do some damage, then having the option to make a second attack is good, as it gives you a second chance to land your sneak attack damage.
This is why I feel like rapier proficiency is often a trap on a Rogue; it can absolutely suit a Swashbuckler, but you could always just treat a shortsword as a cutlass, and take a spare dagger just in case, as you're only losing 1 point of damage on average, for the chance to not waste your entire turn.
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Two-weapon fighting is not always the best way to go. Your offhand doesn't get the bonus to damage that your mainhand does. Yes, two shots are delivering your sneak attack is always good, but if you dip 1 level into fighter you can go rapier and shield (+2 dmg per hit / +2 AC) thanks to dueling fighting style and the shield. You can use your bonus action to dash / disengage or hide which are all very incredibly useful for a rogue.
I wouldn't advise any new player to multiclass any multiclass involves compromises and for a new player it is difficult / impossible to see what those compromises are and and what the impact would be. Taking a level of fighter means every other level you are down a sneak attack dice (average 3.5), so that pretty much cancels ot the +2 damage to hit from the dueling fightin style. On top of that they will get al their rogue features a level late which is very significant. Beginners multiclassing can often lead to very ineffective builds.
I agree rapier proficiency in a trap for a rogue, heir damage output comes from the sneak attack not the damage per hit. Two weapon fighting works great with swashbucklers, unless they are surrounded my 3 or more enemies they can avoid op attacks simply by attacking their opponents so don't need to disengage. If they start their turn with a bit of space between them and the enemy they can move in attack, if they miss they will nearly always try again with an off-hand attack but if they hit with the first attack it is often better to cunning action dash to get a bit more space between you and the enemy
Pick up the Sentinel feat and you can get off more than 1 sneak attack per turn.
This isnt true. Sentinal increases the chance of being able to use your reaction to get a second sneak attack per round. You might get a second sneak attack in without sentinal you might not get one with sentinal it just improves the frequeny you do. How much depends on the party composition and how the DM controls the monsters. For example If you have a battle master in the party they might go you a commanders strike 4 times per short rest meaning you might get a second sneak attack nearly every round even without sentinal.
Sentinal on a rogue is a high risk strategy, to take advantage to it you need to be a tank staying in melee range so you can use it and forcing monsters to attack you (if they attack someone else in melee range or move to someone out of melee range they get attacked and if they use a ranged attack they are at disadvantage). Rogues don't have the hit points or AC to do this well. While sentinal will increase your damage output it will also make you unconcious very often. I prefer to play a rogue asa skirmisher either fighting art range or going in making their attack and getting out again. For non-swashbucklers mobile is a very good feat for this strategy.
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I am a noob to 5e and am confused about how a Rogue gets to use Two Weapon Fighting.
As I read it a Bonus Action is needed to use the second weapon and Bonus Actions are given by 'class features, spells and abilities'. What class feature, spell or ability would give this Bonus to a Rogue?
Thanks.
When Two-Weapon Fighting, you take a bonus action to attack with a different weapon. Since you can take only one bonus action on your turn, you you can either use it for that or for other ability such as Cunning Action.
Sorry I am still not clear on this.
I understand that you can only take 1 Bonus Action per turn, but having a Bonus Action in the first place is stated by the rules to be granted by 'class features, spells and abilities'. So presumably without said 'class feature, spell or ability' the character has 0 Bonus Actions to use.
I don't see what specific 'class feature, spell or ability' grants the Bonus Action? If it is the Two Weapon Fighting rule section itself that grants the bonus, then the Bonus Actions rule section is badly worded, as I don't see how the Two Weapon Fighting rule section can be read as being a 'class feature, spell or ability'.
These are the most probable sources of bonus actions. Two-Weapon Fighting would be akin to ability, others could be granted by traits, magic item powers, terrain etc... Basically if something say it can be done as a bonus action, then it is. If you have nothing at your disposal to do as a bonus action, then you don't have any.
If you wonder what feature or ability does a Rogue get as a bonus action, here's an exemple;
Many thanks, the replies are much appreciated.
I have just compared the wording for Two Weapon Fighting in :
Players Handbook - Essentials Kit Rulebook - Starter Set Rulebook - D&D Basic Rules
The wording is not the same across these 4. They say either "you can use a bonus action" (Handbook, Essentials and Basic) or "you gain a bonus action" (Starter). The latter is clearer in intent. I was originally reading the former version of the wording in the Essentials book which led to my question, as saying you can use a Bonus Action is not the same as saying that you have one. Whereas gaining a Bonus Action implies that you now have one.
They may have cleaned up the wording for Two-Weapon Fighting since the Starter Set, the latest release among the 3 is the Essential Kit.
The wording in the Starter Set rulebook makes sense to me. If I had read that first I wouldn't have been confused. The wording in the other 3 sources seems very confusing. Anyway, I now understand how to apply the rule. Thanks for your help.
Two-weapon fighting is not always the best way to go. Your offhand doesn't get the bonus to damage that your mainhand does. Yes, two shots are delivering your sneak attack is always good, but if you dip 1 level into fighter you can go rapier and shield (+2 dmg per hit / +2 AC) thanks to dueling fighting style and the shield. You can use your bonus action to dash / disengage or hide which are all very incredibly useful for a rogue.
Pick up the Sentinel feat and you can get off more than 1 sneak attack per turn.
I think part of the confusion is what is being meant by bonus action in different places.
Every player gets to perform one action, one bonus action, one object interaction and one reaction during every round of combat. You can think of these as resources that you "spend" in order to perform one of the actions, bonus actions or reactions listed on your sheet (while you use the object interaction to do stuff like draw a weapon, open a door etc.).
All characters also have access to a basic set of actions that they are capable of performing, plus the one bonus action (Two Weapon Fighting) and one reaction (attack of opportunity). You will then gain more options via your race and/or class. So a 2nd level Rogue in addition to Two Weapon Fighting can also choose Cunning Action, but you can still only take one bonus action per turn; so each turn you need to choose to use one of these, or skip your bonus action if none of them will benefit you.
I think where it gets confusing is that the book uses the term "action" or "bonus action" to refer both to the options a character has, and to the limits that they have (usually one of each per turn). So while a character might have six actions listed on their sheet, they can pick one, and only one, to be their action for the turn, same for their bonus action(s) and so-on.
I wouldn't focus too much on the damage you lose for the off-hand attack, because it's never going to be as high as missing with your sneak attack. This is why I tend to prefer dual shortswords or dual daggers (or one of each) on a Rogue, as while I might prefer to use my bonus action to disengage or such, if I screw up the main attack and really needed to do some damage, then having the option to make a second attack is good, as it gives you a second chance to land your sneak attack damage.
This is why I feel like rapier proficiency is often a trap on a Rogue; it can absolutely suit a Swashbuckler, but you could always just treat a shortsword as a cutlass, and take a spare dagger just in case, as you're only losing 1 point of damage on average, for the chance to not waste your entire turn.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
I wouldn't advise any new player to multiclass any multiclass involves compromises and for a new player it is difficult / impossible to see what those compromises are and and what the impact would be. Taking a level of fighter means every other level you are down a sneak attack dice (average 3.5), so that pretty much cancels ot the +2 damage to hit from the dueling fightin style. On top of that they will get al their rogue features a level late which is very significant. Beginners multiclassing can often lead to very ineffective builds.
I agree rapier proficiency in a trap for a rogue, heir damage output comes from the sneak attack not the damage per hit. Two weapon fighting works great with swashbucklers, unless they are surrounded my 3 or more enemies they can avoid op attacks simply by attacking their opponents so don't need to disengage. If they start their turn with a bit of space between them and the enemy they can move in attack, if they miss they will nearly always try again with an off-hand attack but if they hit with the first attack it is often better to cunning action dash to get a bit more space between you and the enemy
This isnt true. Sentinal increases the chance of being able to use your reaction to get a second sneak attack per round. You might get a second sneak attack in without sentinal you might not get one with sentinal it just improves the frequeny you do. How much depends on the party composition and how the DM controls the monsters. For example If you have a battle master in the party they might go you a commanders strike 4 times per short rest meaning you might get a second sneak attack nearly every round even without sentinal.
Sentinal on a rogue is a high risk strategy, to take advantage to it you need to be a tank staying in melee range so you can use it and forcing monsters to attack you (if they attack someone else in melee range or move to someone out of melee range they get attacked and if they use a ranged attack they are at disadvantage). Rogues don't have the hit points or AC to do this well. While sentinal will increase your damage output it will also make you unconcious very often. I prefer to play a rogue asa skirmisher either fighting art range or going in making their attack and getting out again. For non-swashbucklers mobile is a very good feat for this strategy.