So here I was at my local game shop playing Adventure League, Lvl 8 Grave Cleric and loving life.
This guy comes in from T4 down to T2 and makes up a lvl 10 character (I dont think there was enough people in the T4 game that night). He had a barbarian who from the get go he said he hated and wanted to play his lvl 17 rogue instead and would lvl him down to 10. He then in the first combat got his barbarian killed after brow beating the young DM into letting him bring in "Loki" the arcane trickster (8) Druid (2). What happens next is beyond understanding. We're in a city on a rescue mission and the adult green dragon flies over choosing not to enter combat since we're fighting a bunch of soldiers already. He summons a dragon himself and goes after the dragon, after he catches up to it he taunts the dragon into combat, he then summons a "giant snake" saying its gargantuan size and ON THE SAME TURN casts another 2 levelled spells (Moon Beam and Flame blade) then tries to have his dragon and snake attack on that turn too. He then insisted that he got sneak attack damage on the spell attack too since hes an Arcane Trickster.
The DM (around 15yo) was in awe and thought it sounded amazing so ran with it, I called him out on it asking how is he casting 2 spells in one turn? How is he concentrating on 2 summons at the same time? How is he casting the summons with only 2 lvls in druid? And "How are you getting sneak attack when it's a spell attack and you don't have advantage?"
He tried saying that Flame blade is a BA so thats how its allowed and since its an Arcane Trickster you get sneak attack on spells too. When I said "But you still cant cast 2 levelled spells in one turn even if its a BA, you would have to do a BA spell and a cantrip and since flame blade is concentration your summons would vanish too"
He then went on the offensive and said that since I'm reading the rules on DnDB thats why I'm "confused", it's a feature of arcane trickster to be able to cast lvl'd spells as a BA in the book and its up to interpretation and he chooses to interpret it this way.
The rest of the session basically became a single player game after that with him doing whatever he wanted and the DM going with it because it sounded cool. I'm all for the rule of cool but surely some rules still have to apply? Especially since the DM was being a rules lawyer with everyone else (if and when they ever got a chance to do anything).
Sorry for the rant... I guess my question is....
Can Arcane Trickster Rogues ever cast 2 spells in the same turn?
Can Arcane Tricksters get Sneak Attack on spells?
Am I being crazy and a kill joy or am I justified in being annoyed at tonights session?
If you figure out how he did let me know please!!! I just hit level 3 rogue and took Arcane Trickster and this sounds amazing. Sarcasm aside there is nothing I know of that would allow his character to do any of the things you described. I'm curious how he even summoned a dragon. I'm not saying it isn't possible since I don't know all of the summoning spells that well but I don't seem to recall one allowing for that.
Can Arcane Trickster Rogues ever cast 2 spells in the same turn?
Can Arcane Tricksters get Sneak Attack on spells?
Am I being crazy and a kill joy or am I justified in being annoyed at tonights session?
1) RAW, no. They have the same limitations as all other spellcasters, where you can only cast one leveled spell and one cantrip per turn, regardless if they're bonus action or main action. I know that there's some confusion in general around this, partly because Critical Role's first campaign had a homebrew rule where you could cast two leveled spells in a turn but one of them had to be limited to 2nd level or lower. There are certain ways to get around this limitation (Twinned Spell metamagic, Action Surge, the Spelldriver feat if your DM allows it, etc) but there's nothing the Arcane Trickster gets specifically that allows them to do this.
2) Yes, Arcane Tricksters (and rogues in general, if you multiclass or have another source of spells like Magic Initiate) can get Sneak Attack damage on spells as long as the spell is an attack roll (so no saving throws) and all the requirements for Sneak Attack are met. (EDIT - I was wrong, it only applies to weapon attacks but should work with Booming and Green Flame Blade)
You're not being a killjoy - it sounds like a combination of a newer DM who isn't completely familiar with the rules along with a problem player who deliberately pushes dubious or wrong interpretations of abilities with such force that the DM doesn't put their foot down.
2) Yes, Arcane Tricksters (and rogues in general, if you multiclass or have another source of spells like Magic Initiate) can get Sneak Attack damage on spells as long as the spell is an attack roll (so no saving throws) and all the requirements for Sneak Attack are met.
Just curious where you are getting this ruling from? Like I mentioned above I just took AT on a character and am not seeing how this is done. Sneak attack specifically states finesse or ranged weapon. I would really like to know so I can play the class to it's fullest potential. Thanks for helping me out.
You are correct! I looked up the wrong reference document. It needs a weapon attack.
Sneak attack should work with Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade because you are attacking with a weapon. It should also apply to Shadow Blade (a fantastic spell for arcane tricksters) because it specifies you're forming a weapon with those properties, versus something like Flaming Sword where you're making a spell attack.
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So here I was at my local game shop playing Adventure League, Lvl 8 Grave Cleric and loving life.
This guy comes in from T4 down to T2 and makes up a lvl 10 character (I dont think there was enough people in the T4 game that night). He had a barbarian who from the get go he said he hated and wanted to play his lvl 17 rogue instead and would lvl him down to 10. He then in the first combat got his barbarian killed after brow beating the young DM into letting him bring in "Loki" the arcane trickster (8) Druid (2). What happens next is beyond understanding. We're in a city on a rescue mission and the adult green dragon flies over choosing not to enter combat since we're fighting a bunch of soldiers already. He summons a dragon himself and goes after the dragon, after he catches up to it he taunts the dragon into combat, he then summons a "giant snake" saying its gargantuan size and ON THE SAME TURN casts another 2 levelled spells (Moon Beam and Flame blade) then tries to have his dragon and snake attack on that turn too. He then insisted that he got sneak attack damage on the spell attack too since hes an Arcane Trickster.
The DM (around 15yo) was in awe and thought it sounded amazing so ran with it, I called him out on it asking how is he casting 2 spells in one turn? How is he concentrating on 2 summons at the same time? How is he casting the summons with only 2 lvls in druid? And "How are you getting sneak attack when it's a spell attack and you don't have advantage?"
He tried saying that Flame blade is a BA so thats how its allowed and since its an Arcane Trickster you get sneak attack on spells too. When I said "But you still cant cast 2 levelled spells in one turn even if its a BA, you would have to do a BA spell and a cantrip and since flame blade is concentration your summons would vanish too"
He then went on the offensive and said that since I'm reading the rules on DnDB thats why I'm "confused", it's a feature of arcane trickster to be able to cast lvl'd spells as a BA in the book and its up to interpretation and he chooses to interpret it this way.
The rest of the session basically became a single player game after that with him doing whatever he wanted and the DM going with it because it sounded cool. I'm all for the rule of cool but surely some rules still have to apply? Especially since the DM was being a rules lawyer with everyone else (if and when they ever got a chance to do anything).
Sorry for the rant... I guess my question is....
Can Arcane Trickster Rogues ever cast 2 spells in the same turn?
Can Arcane Tricksters get Sneak Attack on spells?
Am I being crazy and a kill joy or am I justified in being annoyed at tonights session?
You are correct on all counts.
Just chalk it up to a new DM and move on.
If you figure out how he did let me know please!!! I just hit level 3 rogue and took Arcane Trickster and this sounds amazing. Sarcasm aside there is nothing I know of that would allow his character to do any of the things you described. I'm curious how he even summoned a dragon. I'm not saying it isn't possible since I don't know all of the summoning spells that well but I don't seem to recall one allowing for that.
1) RAW, no. They have the same limitations as all other spellcasters, where you can only cast one leveled spell and one cantrip per turn, regardless if they're bonus action or main action. I know that there's some confusion in general around this, partly because Critical Role's first campaign had a homebrew rule where you could cast two leveled spells in a turn but one of them had to be limited to 2nd level or lower. There are certain ways to get around this limitation (Twinned Spell metamagic, Action Surge, the Spelldriver feat if your DM allows it, etc) but there's nothing the Arcane Trickster gets specifically that allows them to do this.
2) Yes, Arcane Tricksters (and rogues in general, if you multiclass or have another source of spells like Magic Initiate) can get Sneak Attack damage on
spells as long as the spell is an attack roll (so no saving throws) and all the requirements for Sneak Attack are met.(EDIT - I was wrong, it only applies to weapon attacks but should work with Booming and Green Flame Blade)You're not being a killjoy - it sounds like a combination of a newer DM who isn't completely familiar with the rules along with a problem player who deliberately pushes dubious or wrong interpretations of abilities with such force that the DM doesn't put their foot down.
Just curious where you are getting this ruling from? Like I mentioned above I just took AT on a character and am not seeing how this is done. Sneak attack specifically states finesse or ranged weapon. I would really like to know so I can play the class to it's fullest potential. Thanks for helping me out.
You are correct! I looked up the wrong reference document. It needs a weapon attack.
Sneak attack should work with Green Flame Blade and Booming Blade because you are attacking with a weapon. It should also apply to Shadow Blade (a fantastic spell for arcane tricksters) because it specifies you're forming a weapon with those properties, versus something like Flaming Sword where you're making a spell attack.