So I wanted to create a self-sufficient Rogue build that could reliably get off sneak attack on any enemy on the battlefield. I think I found a decent build with a warlock multiclass that doesn't compromise the damage output you would get from sticking with mono Rogue's sneak attack, but I'd like some feedback.
I start this build out with a PHB Tiefling with 10 STR, 14 DEX, 12 CON, 14 INT, 10 WIS, 16 CHA, (using point buy) and take 5 levels of Hexblade Warlock. I go pact of the blade, and by 5th level I have the invocations Devil's Sight, Eldritch Smite, and Improved Pact Weapon. I also make sure to take the Darkness spell. Improved Pact Weapon lets me use heavy crossbows with charisma for the attack roll, and medium armor proficiency means I don't need to invest in dexterity any further. After that, I go as far as my campaign lets me into Arcane Trickster. Honestly, starting with 1 level of Rogue might be the best idea for the extra skill proficiency and dex saves.
One thing I like about this build is that it doesn't feel like you're waiting for your character to come online. You can play like a regular Warlock for your first five or six levels, spamming Eldritch Blast or Booming Blade. You just need to make sure you have Devil's Sight by level 4, so you can replace your other invocation with Improved Pact Weapon at level 5 and take Eldritch Smite as your new invocation.
The basic strategy of this build is simple enough - cast Darkness around myself, which I can see through with Devil's Sight, but be unseen by almost all of my enemies, gaining advantage on every ranged attack I have. Infernal Legacy means as a Tiefling, I can cast Darkness once per long rest without using a spell slot, but if there are multiple combats in one day that I feel I have to use this strategy, I will have use one of my two pact slots, which I'd ideally save for Eldritch Smite for an extra 4d8 force damage. Fortunately, you can cast warlock spells with normal spell slots, so as I gain levels in Arcane Trickster, I not only gain sneak attack damage, but also more 2nd level spell slots to cast darkness with, so I can conserve my pact slots for Eldritch Smite.
Combining Hexblade's Curse with advantage from being unseen also means you're a lot more likely to roll a crit, and you can add eldritch smite after you know your attack is a crit, so that's pretty cool.
The only way you wouldn't get advantage and therefore sneak attack was if you were fighting an enemy with blindsense, truesight, or a spell that produces light, the most common of which being the light cantrip, but who wants to waste an action in the middle of combat to slightly hinder one opponent? I'd also take Counterspell from my warlock spells just in case anyone tries to use Dispel Magic or Counterspell to take my darkness away. At lower levels of Arcane Trickster, this would cost a pact slot, but again, as you reach higher levels of Arcane Trickster, you'll be able to use your regular spell slots for Counterspell.
So, is it good? Do you get regular spell slots too slowly for this to be consistent? Is strategic targeting as a mono Rogue just better? To be clear, I'm trying to optimize this build, so if you're just going to say, "It's a game, do whatever you want, have fun," I'd rather you not. I think powerbuilding is really fun because it makes me feel like a valuable part of the world my character is in. Also, winning encounters that are way above deadly is really satisfying. That said, I will not target you for anything you say. I'm just here to get some feedback. Thanks!
I mean, it's a good build, but only in solo combat. The problem is that it relies on darkness and devils sight combo, and that is soooooo problematic for your party, as they can't see through it. Sound for solo, difficult for group work.
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
In response to BramblefootDruid, to be clear, it doesn't have to be a frontline strategy. Drop Darkness in the far corner if you want to and take the sharpshooter feat.
Even so, your fighter, or barb or ranger is at a severe disadvantage. They will be relying on you to hit, which you will need to be doing for your party to stand any chance. It is like I said: Sound for solo, difficult for group work.
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'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll preface this by saying I'm biased against warlocks, and really am not a fan of the hexblade in general. I also feel that 9 out of every 10 hexblade/whatever gishes are unimpressive when you get them outside of the white room theorycrafting and put them on the table next to other classes from what I've experienced in adventurer's league play.
Let's look at this build as a level 10 character with no + magic weapons for argument's sake:
1st, Hex warrior is a trap that makes you think you're single ability dependent but as a rogue you need dexterity. Those ever important dexterity saving throws can't be made with your charisma. Nor can your stealth checks, sleight of hand or acrobatics. Bumping your dex improves your AC and initiative, which as a rogue you will want. The +2 Initiative you're losing out by bumping CHA to 16 can often be the difference between going 1st or 2nd in iniative to going 3rd or later.
2nd, the consistent damage of having sneak attack dice at will with almost every attack being lost for sometimes having eldritch smite at 3rd level (twice per short rest) A level 5 rogue/5 hexblade with your build has 1D10 + 3(CHA) + 3d6 sneak attack. You can use your warlock slots to do an extra 4D10 on 2 attacks of your choice. But in doing so you also lose 2 very powerful assets that on their own are just as game changing as your smite. (Counterspell, elemental weapon, thunderstep, etc.)
Your build: The 1d10 + CHA + 3d6 sneak attack + 4d10 + 1 from improved pact weapon on its own is the weakest of the bunch, only averaging 44 damage per turn. You can only do the eldritch smite twice as well, so your damage drops from 44 to 22 beyond that. If you have sharpshooter then it's 32 average.
A level 10 hexblade using eldritch blast gets 2 x 1D10 + CHA from agonizing blast + 2D6 from hex + CHA from maddening hex. Assuming point buy with any race that can start with +CHA you'll have 18-20 CHA by level 10, so this is becomes 30(if +4 CHA) or 32.5(if +5CHA) average damage. Respectable, but not broken and it's mostly resource free with no penalty to hit your target, creating a more likely outcome. You also have more big spells and eldritch invocations allowing for far more utility.
If you go 10 v-human hexblade with +2 CHA using sharpshooter+crossbow expert with heavy crossbow and thirsting blade instead of maddening hex you'll do 2 x 1D10 + CHA + 2D6 from hex + sharpshooterx2 your average damage = 46. Tacking on eldritch smite it adds 4D10, or 22 average for 68 total. Really impressive, but you're losing your spell slots now.
A level 10 rogue with Sharpshooter + crossbow expert and a hand crossbow has 2 x 1D6 + 10 + DEX, with 1 attack doing an extra 5D6. Assuming V Human with a Dex of 20 (4 Feats at level 10) that's average damage of 54.5 = (7x 3.5 + 15sharpshooter + 15sharpshooter) Less than the heavy crossbow hexblade with their smite, but this damage is not dependent on burning resources
A level 5 gloomstalker/5 rogue v-human with sharpshooter, crossbow expert and +2 DEX has the potential to do the following; 3 attacks = (1D6 + 4dex + 10sharpshooter + 1d6 hunters mark) x 3 + 3D6sneak attack for a total average damage = 59.5 average damage at the cost of a 1st level slot for hunters mark. You can also have the archery fighting style so that -5 to hit from sharpshooter is really a -3.
A level 7 rogue arcane trickster/3 blade singer melee with +1 DEX (elven accuracy) gives you the following; 3rd level Shadowblade(3D8+dex) + booming blade(1D8) + 4D6 sneak attack = 36 average damage with a 2D8 (9 dmg) rider if the enemy moves. You also get advantage in dim light, increasing crit chances. AND you get +3 or +4 to AC with bladesong.
Also, this build is more glass pea shooter than glass cannon. 12 CON guarantees a low HP total. And the damage isn't nearly as consistent as a straight rogue or warlock at this level. And if you're only going to play T1 as if you're a hexblade spamming eldritch blast, why even bother with rogue? You're not getting enough out of this multiclass. The better white room build would be 5 ranger/5 rogue, or 5 fighter/5 rogue. 7 rogue/3 wizard, sorcerer or bard has more general utility. Or just go 7 rogue/3 warlock for devils sight and a few spells at 2nd level from pact magic.
1st, Hex warrior is a trap that makes you think you're single ability dependent but as a rogue you need dexterity. Those ever important dexterity saving throws can't be made with your charisma. Nor can your stealth checks, sleight of hand or acrobatics. Bumping your dex improves your AC and initiative, which as a rogue you will want. The +2 Initiative you're losing out by bumping CHA to 16 can often be the difference between going 1st or 2nd in iniative to going 3rd or later.
I think you're overblowing the importance of dex. I don't care about the ability checks, that seems more like flavor and character specific than anything else, and if you start with rogue, you get dex save proficiency anyway. Hexblade gets medium armor proficiency, so add half plate and you'll have as good an AC as a rogue will ever have.
2nd, the consistent damage of having sneak attack dice at will with almost every attack being lost for sometimes having eldritch smite at 3rd level (twice per short rest) A level 5 rogue/5 hexblade with your build has 1D10 + 3(CHA) + 3d6 sneak attack. You can use your warlock slots to do an extra 4D10 on 2 attacks of your choice. But in doing so you also lose 2 very powerful assets that on their own are just as game changing as your smite. (Counterspell, elemental weapon, thunderstep, etc.)
Your build: The 1d10 + CHA + 3d6 sneak attack + 4d10 + 1 from improved pact weapon on its own is the weakest of the bunch, only averaging 44 damage per turn. You can only do the eldritch smite twice as well, so your damage drops from 44 to 22 beyond that. If you have sharpshooter then it's 32 average.
You seem to have forgot to mention that if you add sharpshooter to the attack with the smite it's 53 damage. You also seem to have forgotten I can cast Hex with my spell slots from arcane trickster, which is an advantage I have over all your other warlock builds. This would mean dropping darkness, but you apply sneak attack without it on other builds, so who cares. Add a d6 for for 34.5 average damage without smiting and 56.5 average damage with the smite. Or if you use Hexblade's Curse, that increases to 35 and 57 damage, respectively.
A level 10 hexblade using eldritch blast gets 2 x 1D10 + CHA from agonizing blast + 2D6 from hex + CHA from maddening hex. Assuming point buy with any race that can start with +CHA you'll have 18-20 CHA by level 10, so this is becomes 30(if +4 CHA) or 32.5(if +5CHA) average damage. Respectable, but not broken and it's mostly resource free with no penalty to hit your target, creating a more likely outcome. You also have more big spells and eldritch invocations allowing for far more utility.
Isn't hex dependent on spell slots? You only have 2 of those at level 10. So this only applies if you maintain your concentration. My build doesn't require that for damage, just darkness because I wanted to make it a self-sufficient build. Which means after you go through 2 hexes you have to switch to your hexblade curse giving you 2 x 1D10 + CHA + 4 so that's 29 average damage. After that, it's just 2 X 1D10 + CHA, which is 21 average damage. That also takes up all your resources.
If you go 10 v-human hexblade with +2 CHA using sharpshooter+crossbow expert with heavy crossbow and thirsting blade instead of maddening hex you'll do 2 x 1D10 + CHA + 2D6 from hex + sharpshooterx2 your average damage = 46. Tacking on eldritch smite it adds 4D10, or 22 average for 68 total. Really impressive, but you're losing your spell slots now.
Comparing over two rounds, 68+46=114 average damage. 57+57=114 average damage. After that, while you might have a higher damage output, I have advantage on attacks from darkness while you don't have anything to offset that -5 from sharpshooter. Also, if you drop concentration on hex, you're down to 39 average damage. While I only have 34.5 damage if I drop darkness (because I can recast Hex with my trickster slots), I'm also less likely to lose it because all attacks made against me have disadvantage unless I'm fighting Orcus at level 10.
A level 5 gloomstalker/5 rogue v-human with sharpshooter, crossbow expert and +2 DEX has the potential to do the following; 3 attacks = (1D6 + 4dex + 10sharpshooter + 1d6 hunters mark) x 3 + 3D6sneak attack for a total average damage = 59.5 average damage at the cost of a 1st level slot for hunters mark. You can also have the archery fighting style 3so that -5 to hit from sharpshooter is really a -3.
All I have on this one is advantage on attacks from darkness, a higher AC, and disadvantage on attack rolls against me. Other than that... Yeah this is better.
A level 7 rogue arcane trickster/3 blade singer melee with +1 DEX (elven accuracy) gives you the following; 3rd level Shadowblade(3D8+dex) + booming blade(1D8) + 4D6 sneak attack = 36 average damage with a 2D8 (9 dmg) rider if the enemy moves. You also get advantage in dim light, increasing crit chances. AND you get +3 or +4 to AC with bladesong.
Cool. Doesn't stack in terms of damage, and dim light is dependent on the situation, whereas magical darkness almost always works. I generally prefer green flame blade to booming blade. AC is compensated for by the disadvantage on attacks.
Also, this build is more glass pea shooter than glass cannon. 12 CON guarantees a low HP total. And the damage isn't nearly as consistent as a straight rogue or warlock at this level. And if you're only going to play T1 as if you're a hexblade spamming eldritch blast, why even bother with rogue? You're not getting enough out of this multiclass. The better white room build would be 5 ranger/5 rogue, or 5 fighter/5 rogue. 7 rogue/3 wizard, sorcerer or bard has more general utility. Or just go 7 rogue/3 warlock for devils sight and a few spells at 2nd level from pact magic.
I can buff the CON to 14 if it's that big of a deal to you, I'm just not a fan of odd ability scores so I had to put an odd score in something, and it was intelligence. 32 damage is consistent. Is that bad? I don't know what T1 means, and if I wanted to spam eldritch blast I wouldn't play a hexblade. I'd go celestial, have something useful to do with my bonus action. I also don't know what a white room is. I wasn't going for utility, I was going for self-sustained damage.
1st, Hex warrior is a trap that makes you think you're single ability dependent but as a rogue you need dexterity. Those ever important dexterity saving throws can't be made with your charisma. Nor can your stealth checks, sleight of hand or acrobatics. Bumping your dex improves your AC and initiative, which as a rogue you will want. The +2 Initiative you're losing out by bumping CHA to 16 can often be the difference between going 1st or 2nd in iniative to going 3rd or later.
I think you're overblowing the importance of dex. I don't care about the ability checks, that seems more like flavor and character specific than anything else, and if you start with rogue, you get dex save proficiency anyway. Hexblade gets medium armor proficiency, so add half plate and you'll have as good an AC as a rogue will ever have.
2nd, the consistent damage of having sneak attack dice at will with almost every attack being lost for sometimes having eldritch smite at 3rd level (twice per short rest) A level 5 rogue/5 hexblade with your build has 1D10 + 3(CHA) + 3d6 sneak attack. You can use your warlock slots to do an extra 4D10 on 2 attacks of your choice. But in doing so you also lose 2 very powerful assets that on their own are just as game changing as your smite. (Counterspell, elemental weapon, thunderstep, etc.)
Your build: The 1d10 + CHA + 3d6 sneak attack + 4d10 + 1 from improved pact weapon on its own is the weakest of the bunch, only averaging 44 damage per turn. You can only do the eldritch smite twice as well, so your damage drops from 44 to 22 beyond that. If you have sharpshooter then it's 32 average.
You seem to have forgot to mention that if you add sharpshooter to the attack with the smite it's 53 damage. You also seem to have forgotten I can cast Hex with my spell slots from arcane trickster, which is an advantage I have over all your other warlock builds. This would mean dropping darkness, but you apply sneak attack without it on other builds, so who cares. Add a d6 for for 34.5 average damage without smiting and 56.5 average damage with the smite. Or if you use Hexblade's Curse, that increases to 35 and 57 damage, respectively.
A level 10 hexblade using eldritch blast gets 2 x 1D10 + CHA from agonizing blast + 2D6 from hex + CHA from maddening hex. Assuming point buy with any race that can start with +CHA you'll have 18-20 CHA by level 10, so this is becomes 30(if +4 CHA) or 32.5(if +5CHA) average damage. Respectable, but not broken and it's mostly resource free with no penalty to hit your target, creating a more likely outcome. You also have more big spells and eldritch invocations allowing for far more utility.
Isn't hex dependent on spell slots? You only have 2 of those at level 10. So this only applies if you maintain your concentration. My build doesn't require that for damage, just darkness because I wanted to make it a self-sufficient build. Which means after you go through 2 hexes you have to switch to your hexblade curse giving you 2 x 1D10 + CHA + 4 so that's 29 average damage. After that, it's just 2 X 1D10 + CHA, which is 21 average damage. That also takes up all your resources.
If you go 10 v-human hexblade with +2 CHA using sharpshooter+crossbow expert with heavy crossbow and thirsting blade instead of maddening hex you'll do 2 x 1D10 + CHA + 2D6 from hex + sharpshooterx2 your average damage = 46. Tacking on eldritch smite it adds 4D10, or 22 average for 68 total. Really impressive, but you're losing your spell slots now.
Comparing over two rounds, 68+46=114 average damage. 57+57=114 average damage. After that, while you might have a higher damage output, I have advantage on attacks from darkness while you don't have anything to offset that -5 from sharpshooter. Also, if you drop concentration on hex, you're down to 39 average damage. While I only have 34.5 damage if I drop darkness (because I can recast Hex with my trickster slots), I'm also less likely to lose it because all attacks made against me have disadvantage unless I'm fighting Orcus at level 10.
A level 5 gloomstalker/5 rogue v-human with sharpshooter, crossbow expert and +2 DEX has the potential to do the following; 3 attacks = (1D6 + 4dex + 10sharpshooter + 1d6 hunters mark) x 3 + 3D6sneak attack for a total average damage = 59.5 average damage at the cost of a 1st level slot for hunters mark. You can also have the archery fighting style 3so that -5 to hit from sharpshooter is really a -3.
All I have on this one is advantage on attacks from darkness, a higher AC, and disadvantage on attack rolls against me. Other than that... Yeah this is better.
A level 7 rogue arcane trickster/3 blade singer melee with +1 DEX (elven accuracy) gives you the following; 3rd level Shadowblade(3D8+dex) + booming blade(1D8) + 4D6 sneak attack = 36 average damage with a 2D8 (9 dmg) rider if the enemy moves. You also get advantage in dim light, increasing crit chances. AND you get +3 or +4 to AC with bladesong.
Cool. Doesn't stack in terms of damage, and dim light is dependent on the situation, whereas magical darkness almost always works. I generally prefer green flame blade to booming blade. AC is compensated for by the disadvantage on attacks.
Also, this build is more glass pea shooter than glass cannon. 12 CON guarantees a low HP total. And the damage isn't nearly as consistent as a straight rogue or warlock at this level. And if you're only going to play T1 as if you're a hexblade spamming eldritch blast, why even bother with rogue? You're not getting enough out of this multiclass. The better white room build would be 5 ranger/5 rogue, or 5 fighter/5 rogue. 7 rogue/3 wizard, sorcerer or bard has more general utility. Or just go 7 rogue/3 warlock for devils sight and a few spells at 2nd level from pact magic.
I can buff the CON to 14 if it's that big of a deal to you, I'm just not a fan of odd ability scores so I had to put an odd score in something, and it was intelligence. 32 damage is consistent. Is that bad? I don't know what T1 means, and if I wanted to spam eldritch blast I wouldn't play a hexblade. I'd go celestial, have something useful to do with my bonus action. I also don't know what a white room is. I wasn't going for utility, I was going for self-sustained damage.
Your 2 cents are very much appreciated. I had fun.
I applied sneak attack to the other builds without darkness because sneak attack is easy to get on most attacks. Bonus action to hide or having an ally in combat with an enemy is sufficient to get it. Arcane tricksters can use familiars for advantage so this guarantees 1 of your 2 hand crossbow attacks has it to apply sneak attack. Same goes for the shadow blade build.
darkness takes an action to cast so if you’re relying on that and using your concentration on it for advantage then that puts you 1 whole turn behind others in attacks. Also, arcane tricksters don’t get 2nd level spell slots until they’re level 7, so in the example of 5 hexblade/5 rogue you wouldn’t be able to cast darkness from AT slots.
Regarding gloomstalkers, they are invisible in the shadows without having to use an action, so they have advantage on their attacks as often as your build.
T1 = tier one, which is levels 1 to 4. And when I refer to white room builds I mean it’s a build that sounds good in a vacuum. These are the kinds of builds that often take 3+ turns to do what others do in 1 or 2, and most combats don’t last beyond 2 rounds. White room builds also tend to forget that there’s teamwork within the game and that each combat is a dynamic, evolving situation. There are many Monsters that have devil sight and true sight, a spell may break your concentration, you may get grappled and need to blow a spell slot to misty step.
And I guarantee you that medium armor vs light armor is a wash. Light armor with +5 Dex has the same ac as half plate without disadvantage to stealth. That can be huge in achieving advantage when bonus action hiding. Uncanny dodge will mitigate damage and the shield spell will save you from others. Half plate is not necessary for rogues.
Also, just being proficient in dex saves means nothing If you have low dex. With +2 dex you’ll be a +6 on your dex saving throw against lightning bolts and fireballs. That gives you a 45-55% chance to make your saving throw in tier 2 (levels 5 to 10). in this tier most saving throws are between DC 14 to DC 17, depending on the monster difficulty. You also lose out on rogue evasion at level 7, which means you take no damage on Successful dex saves. You’ll make as many dex saves as wisdom saves when playing. Also when you multi class it’s important to note you don’t gain that class’ saving throws. If you start out as warlock with 14 dex your save will be +2, not +6. Much worse. Much more likely to fail.
So I wanted to create a self-sufficient Rogue build that could reliably get off sneak attack on any enemy on the battlefield. I think I found a decent build with a warlock multiclass that doesn't compromise the damage output you would get from sticking with mono Rogue's sneak attack, but I'd like some feedback.
I start this build out with a PHB Tiefling with 10 STR, 14 DEX, 12 CON, 14 INT, 10 WIS, 16 CHA, (using point buy) and take 5 levels of Hexblade Warlock. I go pact of the blade, and by 5th level I have the invocations Devil's Sight, Eldritch Smite, and Improved Pact Weapon. I also make sure to take the Darkness spell. Improved Pact Weapon lets me use heavy crossbows with charisma for the attack roll, and medium armor proficiency means I don't need to invest in dexterity any further. After that, I go as far as my campaign lets me into Arcane Trickster. Honestly, starting with 1 level of Rogue might be the best idea for the extra skill proficiency and dex saves.
One thing I like about this build is that it doesn't feel like you're waiting for your character to come online. You can play like a regular Warlock for your first five or six levels, spamming Eldritch Blast or Booming Blade. You just need to make sure you have Devil's Sight by level 4, so you can replace your other invocation with Improved Pact Weapon at level 5 and take Eldritch Smite as your new invocation.
The basic strategy of this build is simple enough - cast Darkness around myself, which I can see through with Devil's Sight, but be unseen by almost all of my enemies, gaining advantage on every ranged attack I have. Infernal Legacy means as a Tiefling, I can cast Darkness once per long rest without using a spell slot, but if there are multiple combats in one day that I feel I have to use this strategy, I will have use one of my two pact slots, which I'd ideally save for Eldritch Smite for an extra 4d8 force damage. Fortunately, you can cast warlock spells with normal spell slots, so as I gain levels in Arcane Trickster, I not only gain sneak attack damage, but also more 2nd level spell slots to cast darkness with, so I can conserve my pact slots for Eldritch Smite.
Combining Hexblade's Curse with advantage from being unseen also means you're a lot more likely to roll a crit, and you can add eldritch smite after you know your attack is a crit, so that's pretty cool.
The only way you wouldn't get advantage and therefore sneak attack was if you were fighting an enemy with blindsense, truesight, or a spell that produces light, the most common of which being the light cantrip, but who wants to waste an action in the middle of combat to slightly hinder one opponent? I'd also take Counterspell from my warlock spells just in case anyone tries to use Dispel Magic or Counterspell to take my darkness away. At lower levels of Arcane Trickster, this would cost a pact slot, but again, as you reach higher levels of Arcane Trickster, you'll be able to use your regular spell slots for Counterspell.
So, is it good? Do you get regular spell slots too slowly for this to be consistent? Is strategic targeting as a mono Rogue just better? To be clear, I'm trying to optimize this build, so if you're just going to say, "It's a game, do whatever you want, have fun," I'd rather you not. I think powerbuilding is really fun because it makes me feel like a valuable part of the world my character is in. Also, winning encounters that are way above deadly is really satisfying. That said, I will not target you for anything you say. I'm just here to get some feedback. Thanks!
I mean, it's a good build, but only in solo combat. The problem is that it relies on darkness and devils sight combo, and that is soooooo problematic for your party, as they can't see through it. Sound for solo, difficult for group work.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
In response to BramblefootDruid, to be clear, it doesn't have to be a frontline strategy. Drop Darkness in the far corner if you want to and take the sharpshooter feat.
Even so, your fighter, or barb or ranger is at a severe disadvantage. They will be relying on you to hit, which you will need to be doing for your party to stand any chance. It is like I said: Sound for solo, difficult for group work.
'The Cleverness of mushrooms always surprises me!' - Ivern Bramblefoot.
I'll worldbuild for your DnD games!
Just a D&D enjoyer, check out my fiverr page if you need any worldbuilding done for ya!
I'll preface this by saying I'm biased against warlocks, and really am not a fan of the hexblade in general. I also feel that 9 out of every 10 hexblade/whatever gishes are unimpressive when you get them outside of the white room theorycrafting and put them on the table next to other classes from what I've experienced in adventurer's league play.
Let's look at this build as a level 10 character with no + magic weapons for argument's sake:
1st, Hex warrior is a trap that makes you think you're single ability dependent but as a rogue you need dexterity. Those ever important dexterity saving throws can't be made with your charisma. Nor can your stealth checks, sleight of hand or acrobatics. Bumping your dex improves your AC and initiative, which as a rogue you will want. The +2 Initiative you're losing out by bumping CHA to 16 can often be the difference between going 1st or 2nd in iniative to going 3rd or later.
2nd, the consistent damage of having sneak attack dice at will with almost every attack being lost for sometimes having eldritch smite at 3rd level (twice per short rest) A level 5 rogue/5 hexblade with your build has 1D10 + 3(CHA) + 3d6 sneak attack. You can use your warlock slots to do an extra 4D10 on 2 attacks of your choice. But in doing so you also lose 2 very powerful assets that on their own are just as game changing as your smite. (Counterspell, elemental weapon, thunderstep, etc.)
Your build: The 1d10 + CHA + 3d6 sneak attack + 4d10 + 1 from improved pact weapon on its own is the weakest of the bunch, only averaging 44 damage per turn. You can only do the eldritch smite twice as well, so your damage drops from 44 to 22 beyond that. If you have sharpshooter then it's 32 average.
A level 10 hexblade using eldritch blast gets 2 x 1D10 + CHA from agonizing blast + 2D6 from hex + CHA from maddening hex. Assuming point buy with any race that can start with +CHA you'll have 18-20 CHA by level 10, so this is becomes 30(if +4 CHA) or 32.5(if +5CHA) average damage. Respectable, but not broken and it's mostly resource free with no penalty to hit your target, creating a more likely outcome. You also have more big spells and eldritch invocations allowing for far more utility.
If you go 10 v-human hexblade with +2 CHA using sharpshooter+crossbow expert with heavy crossbow and thirsting blade instead of maddening hex you'll do 2 x 1D10 + CHA + 2D6 from hex + sharpshooterx2 your average damage = 46. Tacking on eldritch smite it adds 4D10, or 22 average for 68 total. Really impressive, but you're losing your spell slots now.
A level 10 rogue with Sharpshooter + crossbow expert and a hand crossbow has 2 x 1D6 + 10 + DEX, with 1 attack doing an extra 5D6. Assuming V Human with a Dex of 20 (4 Feats at level 10) that's average damage of 54.5 = (7x 3.5 + 15sharpshooter + 15sharpshooter) Less than the heavy crossbow hexblade with their smite, but this damage is not dependent on burning resources
A level 5 gloomstalker/5 rogue v-human with sharpshooter, crossbow expert and +2 DEX has the potential to do the following; 3 attacks = (1D6 + 4dex + 10sharpshooter + 1d6 hunters mark) x 3 + 3D6sneak attack for a total average damage = 59.5 average damage at the cost of a 1st level slot for hunters mark. You can also have the archery fighting style so that -5 to hit from sharpshooter is really a -3.
A level 7 rogue arcane trickster/3 blade singer melee with +1 DEX (elven accuracy) gives you the following; 3rd level Shadowblade(3D8+dex) + booming blade(1D8) + 4D6 sneak attack = 36 average damage with a 2D8 (9 dmg) rider if the enemy moves. You also get advantage in dim light, increasing crit chances. AND you get +3 or +4 to AC with bladesong.
Also, this build is more glass pea shooter than glass cannon. 12 CON guarantees a low HP total. And the damage isn't nearly as consistent as a straight rogue or warlock at this level. And if you're only going to play T1 as if you're a hexblade spamming eldritch blast, why even bother with rogue? You're not getting enough out of this multiclass. The better white room build would be 5 ranger/5 rogue, or 5 fighter/5 rogue. 7 rogue/3 wizard, sorcerer or bard has more general utility. Or just go 7 rogue/3 warlock for devils sight and a few spells at 2nd level from pact magic.
My 2 cents. (And some math.)
I think you're overblowing the importance of dex. I don't care about the ability checks, that seems more like flavor and character specific than anything else, and if you start with rogue, you get dex save proficiency anyway. Hexblade gets medium armor proficiency, so add half plate and you'll have as good an AC as a rogue will ever have.
You seem to have forgot to mention that if you add sharpshooter to the attack with the smite it's 53 damage. You also seem to have forgotten I can cast Hex with my spell slots from arcane trickster, which is an advantage I have over all your other warlock builds. This would mean dropping darkness, but you apply sneak attack without it on other builds, so who cares. Add a d6 for for 34.5 average damage without smiting and 56.5 average damage with the smite. Or if you use Hexblade's Curse, that increases to 35 and 57 damage, respectively.
Isn't hex dependent on spell slots? You only have 2 of those at level 10. So this only applies if you maintain your concentration. My build doesn't require that for damage, just darkness because I wanted to make it a self-sufficient build. Which means after you go through 2 hexes you have to switch to your hexblade curse giving you 2 x 1D10 + CHA + 4 so that's 29 average damage. After that, it's just 2 X 1D10 + CHA, which is 21 average damage. That also takes up all your resources.
Comparing over two rounds, 68+46=114 average damage. 57+57=114 average damage. After that, while you might have a higher damage output, I have advantage on attacks from darkness while you don't have anything to offset that -5 from sharpshooter. Also, if you drop concentration on hex, you're down to 39 average damage. While I only have 34.5 damage if I drop darkness (because I can recast Hex with my trickster slots), I'm also less likely to lose it because all attacks made against me have disadvantage unless I'm fighting Orcus at level 10.
All I have on this one is advantage on attacks from darkness, a higher AC, and disadvantage on attack rolls against me. Other than that... Yeah this is better.
Cool. Doesn't stack in terms of damage, and dim light is dependent on the situation, whereas magical darkness almost always works. I generally prefer green flame blade to booming blade. AC is compensated for by the disadvantage on attacks.
I can buff the CON to 14 if it's that big of a deal to you, I'm just not a fan of odd ability scores so I had to put an odd score in something, and it was intelligence. 32 damage is consistent. Is that bad? I don't know what T1 means, and if I wanted to spam eldritch blast I wouldn't play a hexblade. I'd go celestial, have something useful to do with my bonus action. I also don't know what a white room is. I wasn't going for utility, I was going for self-sustained damage.
Your 2 cents are very much appreciated. I had fun.
I applied sneak attack to the other builds without darkness because sneak attack is easy to get on most attacks. Bonus action to hide or having an ally in combat with an enemy is sufficient to get it. Arcane tricksters can use familiars for advantage so this guarantees 1 of your 2 hand crossbow attacks has it to apply sneak attack. Same goes for the shadow blade build.
darkness takes an action to cast so if you’re relying on that and using your concentration on it for advantage then that puts you 1 whole turn behind others in attacks. Also, arcane tricksters don’t get 2nd level spell slots until they’re level 7, so in the example of 5 hexblade/5 rogue you wouldn’t be able to cast darkness from AT slots.
Regarding gloomstalkers, they are invisible in the shadows without having to use an action, so they have advantage on their attacks as often as your build.
T1 = tier one, which is levels 1 to 4. And when I refer to white room builds I mean it’s a build that sounds good in a vacuum. These are the kinds of builds that often take 3+ turns to do what others do in 1 or 2, and most combats don’t last beyond 2 rounds. White room builds also tend to forget that there’s teamwork within the game and that each combat is a dynamic, evolving situation. There are many Monsters that have devil sight and true sight, a spell may break your concentration, you may get grappled and need to blow a spell slot to misty step.
And I guarantee you that medium armor vs light armor is a wash. Light armor with +5 Dex has the same ac as half plate without disadvantage to stealth. That can be huge in achieving advantage when bonus action hiding. Uncanny dodge will mitigate damage and the shield spell will save you from others. Half plate is not necessary for rogues.
Also, just being proficient in dex saves means nothing If you have low dex. With +2 dex you’ll be a +6 on your dex saving throw against lightning bolts and fireballs. That gives you a 45-55% chance to make your saving throw in tier 2 (levels 5 to 10). in this tier most saving throws are between DC 14 to DC 17, depending on the monster difficulty.
You also lose out on rogue evasion at level 7, which means you take no damage on Successful dex saves. You’ll make as many dex saves as wisdom saves when playing.
Also when you multi class it’s important to note you don’t gain that class’ saving throws. If you start out as warlock with 14 dex your save will be +2, not +6. Much worse. Much more likely to fail.