So DNDBeyond is listing this characters Passive scores at a level I can't figure out the math behind:
Pallid Elf Rogue (Scout) 12 / Ranger (Hunter) 5 with the Observant Feat. No equipment or other feats that affect stats in any way.
By my math their Passive Investigation should be 10+6+6+5+5 for a total of 32, but DNDBeyond is showing it at 37; their Passive Insight should also be 10+6+6+5+5 for a total of 32, but is showing as 27; their Passive Perception should be 10+6+6+5 for a total of 27, but is showing as 32...
I'd included Observant in the original math: 10 - base +6 - Proficiency +6 - Expertise +5 - Observant Which totals 27 ...then learned Incisive Sense adds a further +5 to Investigation and Insight.
Even adding the +5 for Incisive Sense that brings us to 32, so I'm not sure where the 37 comes from... to make things more complex, Insight should *also* be 32, but only lists at 27, and Perception should only be 27, but is showing as 32.
Insight: 10 (base) + 6 (Prof) + 6 (Expertise) + 5 (WIS) + 5 (Advantage) = 32... you might need someone else to explain it other than me cause I have no clue (probably missing some negative modifier?). In the meanwhile check if you have any custom modifiers on your Passive Insight.
Instead of having to remember "proficiency + stat [+ expertise]" I simply take the number from the bonus column of the skills section of the sheet and add 10 to get the passive score.
Then you add on +5 if it has advantage (e.g. from Incisive Sense), and +5 if Observant applies.
But I agree that Insight should be 32 in the absence of other penalties.
(The herolab tool, which I used for PF, has a useful feature that hovering the cursor over a number on the sheet shows the breakdown of how the final number is calculated. I wish DDB would implement that.)
Advantage on Insight does not currently give +5 to Passive Insight on DNDBeyond yet. It's a known issue. Investigation and Perception do though.
Everything else is correct. Perception is correct at 32. It's your Perception skill (17) + 10 from being Passive and +5 from Observant. Investigation is correct at 37. It's your Investigation skill (17) + 10 from being Passive and +5 from Observant and +5 from Incisive Sense. Insight should be 32 - but is 27 because Incisive Sense is bugged for Passive Insight and so isn't being added.
Insight is glitched, everything else is working as intended.
Incisive Sense grants advantage which adds that +5.
Also to:
I'd included Observant in the original math: 10 - base +6 - Proficiency +6 - Expertise +5 - Observant Which totals 27 ...then learned Incisive Sense adds a further +5 to Investigation and Insight.
Even adding the +5 for Incisive Sense that brings us to 32, so I'm not sure where the 37 comes from.
You just forgot to add Intelligence which is another +5.
For "Perception should only be 27, but is showing as 32" you either forgot to add your WIS modifier or forgot to add Observant which applies to both investigation and perception I believe.
Edit: Investigation uses Intelligence not Wisdom, doesn't make a difference either way of course since both stats are 20 (+5), but fixed it anyways.
Instead of having to remember "proficiency + stat [+ expertise]" I simply take the number from the bonus column of the skills section of the sheet and add 10 to get the passive score.
Then you add on +5 if it has advantage (e.g. from Incisive Sense), and +5 if Observant applies.
But I agree that Insight should be 32 in the absence of other penalties.
(The herolab tool, which I used for PF, has a useful feature that hovering the cursor over a number on the sheet shows the breakdown of how the final number is calculated. I wish DDB would implement that.)
Yeah that would be nice... hell I'd settle for all things showing you their math with a right click (like some, but not all, do already :/ )
I made a homebrew copy of pallid elf and found the problem. The character sheet does not automatically apply +5 to passive for advantage (something they will add eventually, I'm sure), so anything that adds advantage also needs modifiers for passives. The Pallid elf has a +5 modifier for passive investigation, but no modifier for passive insight.
This needs to be reported as a bug.
(Took me a while to get to it, but less than 15 minutes of actual investigation... Did no one else even try?) [Edit2]Yes, yes they did.
I made a homebrew copy of pallid elf and found the problem. The character sheet does not automatically apply +5 to passive for advantage (something they will add eventually, I'm sure), so anything that adds advantage also needs modifiers for passives. The Pallid elf has a +5 modifier for passive investigation, but no modifier for passive perception.
This needs to be reported as a bug.
(Took me a while to get to it, but less than 15 minutes of actual investigation... Did no one else even try?)
So DNDBeyond is listing this characters Passive scores at a level I can't figure out the math behind:
Pallid Elf Rogue (Scout) 12 / Ranger (Hunter) 5 with the Observant Feat. No equipment or other feats that affect stats in any way.
By my math their Passive Investigation should be 10+6+6+5+5 for a total of 32, but DNDBeyond is showing it at 37; their Passive Insight should also be 10+6+6+5+5 for a total of 32, but is showing as 27; their Passive Perception should be 10+6+6+5 for a total of 27, but is showing as 32...
I'd included Observant in the original math:
10 - base
+6 - Proficiency
+6 - Expertise
+5 - Observant
Which totals 27
...then learned Incisive Sense adds a further +5 to Investigation and Insight.
Even adding the +5 for Incisive Sense that brings us to 32, so I'm not sure where the 37 comes from... to make things more complex, Insight should *also* be 32, but only lists at 27, and Perception should only be 27, but is showing as 32.
Investigation: 10 (base) + 6 (Prof) + 6 (Expertise) + 5 (WIS) + 5 (Observant) + 5 (Advantage) = 37
Perception: 10 (base) + 6 (Prof) + 6 (Expertise) + 5 (WIS) + 5 (Observant) = 32
Insight: 10 (base) + 6 (Prof) + 6 (Expertise) + 5 (WIS) + 5 (Advantage) = 32... you might need someone else to explain it other than me cause I have no clue (probably missing some negative modifier?). In the meanwhile check if you have any custom modifiers on your Passive Insight.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
You are forgetting the rule that advantage grants +5 on your passive score.
Without seeing the full sheet, it isn't possible to see what might be granting -5 to Insight.
No, that was added as indicated here in the original post:
...then learned Incisive Sense adds a further +5 to Investigation and Insight.
Instead of having to remember "proficiency + stat [+ expertise]" I simply take the number from the bonus column of the skills section of the sheet and add 10 to get the passive score.
Then you add on +5 if it has advantage (e.g. from Incisive Sense), and +5 if Observant applies.
But I agree that Insight should be 32 in the absence of other penalties.
(The herolab tool, which I used for PF, has a useful feature that hovering the cursor over a number on the sheet shows the breakdown of how the final number is calculated. I wish DDB would implement that.)
I think DDB still has a bug relating to Palid Elf and passive Insight:
https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/bugs-support/61690-pallid-elf-incisive-sense-and-passive-scores
Passive Insight should be 32.
Advantage on Insight does not currently give +5 to Passive Insight on DNDBeyond yet. It's a known issue. Investigation and Perception do though.
Everything else is correct.
Perception is correct at 32. It's your Perception skill (17) + 10 from being Passive and +5 from Observant.
Investigation is correct at 37. It's your Investigation skill (17) + 10 from being Passive and +5 from Observant and +5 from Incisive Sense.
Insight should be 32 - but is 27 because Incisive Sense is bugged for Passive Insight and so isn't being added.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
TDLR;
Insight is glitched, everything else is working as intended.
Incisive Sense grants advantage which adds that +5.
Also to:
You just forgot to add Intelligence which is another +5.
For "Perception should only be 27, but is showing as 32" you either forgot to add your WIS modifier or forgot to add Observant which applies to both investigation and perception I believe.
Edit: Investigation uses Intelligence not Wisdom, doesn't make a difference either way of course since both stats are 20 (+5), but fixed it anyways.
if I edit a message, most of the time it's because of grammar. The rest of the time I'll put "Edit:" at the bottom.
Yeah that would be nice... hell I'd settle for all things showing you their math with a right click (like some, but not all, do already :/ )
Might be easier for us to figure out what is going on if you linked the character sheet instead of just a few screenshots.
I think some items/feats don't work with passives the way it should.
Either way, at these high 20s passives, little to nothing will be rolling higher anyway.
I made a homebrew copy of pallid elf and found the problem. The character sheet does not automatically apply +5 to passive for advantage (something they will add eventually, I'm sure), so anything that adds advantage also needs modifiers for passives. The Pallid elf has a +5 modifier for passive investigation, but no modifier for passive insight.
This needs to be reported as a bug.
(
Took me a while to get to it, but less than 15 minutes of actual investigation... Did no one else even try?) [Edit2]Yes, yes they did.[Edit] Done: https://www.dndbeyond.com/forums/d-d-beyond-general/bugs-support/107048-pallid-elf-passive-perception
Emmber mentioned the bug in their post. It's a known issue.
Ah, yep. Overlooked it in the sea of numbers.