I've played 5e for a number of years but I often misunderstand a rule or something. I'm a big fan of synergizing my characters and I've found a few things that seem TOO good to be true. As usual, I'm concerned that I've misunderstood something so I'm hoping the more savvy players and DMs can correct me on things.
1) The Dwarven Immortal: The Durable feat states 'Increase your Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20. When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2).' The Dwarven Fortitude Feat states 'Increase your Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20. Whenever you take the Dodge action in combat, you can spend one Hit Die to heal yourself. Roll the die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1).'
The way I read this is that a Dwarf with both of these Feats gains +2 Con and every time they Dodge, they can regain HP equal to one hit die plus their Con modifier and the minimum number you can roll is equal to TWICE the Con modifier. So, a Dodging Dwarf Fighter with a +4 Con mod regains at LEAST 8 HP, yes?
2) The Fighter's Unarmed Fighting Style states 'Your unarmed strikes can deal bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier on a hit. If you aren’t wielding any weapons or a shield when you make the attack roll, the d6 becomes a d8.' One of the benefits of the Monk's Martial Arts trait states 'When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn.'
Does this mean that an unarmed Monk with a level of Fighter and the Unarmed Fighting Style can do 1D8 with a single unarmed attack as well as a second 1D8 with a Bonus Action attack?
3) A Barbarian making a Reckless Attack gains Advantage on their melee attacks but enemies gain Advantage to attack them as well. However, the Wildhunt Shifter subrace has a trait that states 'While shifted, you have Advantage on Wisdom checks, and no creature within 30 feet of you can make an attack roll with Advantage against you unless you’re incapacitated.'
Does this mean that melee enemies attacking a Wildhunt Shifter Barbarian making Reckless Attacks does NOT get Advantage?
1) Yes, but keep in mind you have a limited number of Hit Dice, so it's still a form of emergency healing similar to a Fighter's Second Wind ability. It is nice knowing that you're guaranteed a decent amount with each use, though.
2) Yes, but keep in mind a couple of things: First, to get the d8 from the Fighting Style, you need both hands free. So if you attack with something like a Quarterstaff and then make an Unarmed Strike, you'll be limited to a d6 unless you drop/stow the weapon. Second, a Monk's Unarmed Strike damage scales as they level up. So their Unarmed Strikes will be doing a d6 by Level 5 and a d8 by Level 11, at which point the only advantage of having the Fighting Style is the auto-damage to creatures they have Grappled.
3) The rule for Wildhunt Shifters says "and no creature within 30 feet of you can make an attack roll with advantage against you unless you’re incapacitated.", it does NOT have "unless you're the reason they were granted Advantage on the attack in the first place", so yes that combo would work just fine.
Correct on all accounts. The only caveat I would say is that I think it would be reasonable (though I wouldn't do it myself) for a DM to rule that you can't make reckless attacks while shifted, on account of the rules AND fiction of the two features both seeming to be in conflict. Again, though, I don't think this is a likely ruling, I don't think it's a necessary ruling, just something that you might want to bear in mind I guess.
I've thought often about the dodge dwarf. Monk would let you do it as a bonus action. Still, hit dice are a resource and monks want to take short rests pretty often anyway. Seems kinda unimpressive tbh.
Thanks for the rapid replies, everyone. I hate building a theory-crafted character based on an idea only to find out that I misinterpreted a rule.
The Shifter Barb seems like a really strong build to me based on what I see my current team's Barb getting into.
Considering you have to choose between raging and shifting on the first turn and cant really use any bonus action options you have until the third turn it definitely has drawbacks to go with its benefits.
You don't have to Rage though to use Reckless Attack. and since it's done when attacking, you should be able do so while Shifting just fine. I don't see any conflict rule-wise.
You don't have to Rage though to use Reckless Attack. and since it's done when attacking, you should be able do so while Shifting just fine. I don't see any conflict rule-wise.
A fair point. You don't HAVE to be Raging in order to use Reckless Attack. It's just how most Barbs are played.
You don't have to Rage though to use Reckless Attack. and since it's done when attacking, you should be able do so while Shifting just fine. I don't see any conflict rule-wise.
A fair point. You don't HAVE to be Raging in order to use Reckless Attack. It's just how most Barbs are played.
Of course Rage is the Barbarian's bread and butter, i was more saying that because Rage has limited use per day with a set duration and end clause, so when not raging you can still use Reckless Attack since its not a prerequisit.
But like DxJxC said, the action economy has some considerations to have.
3) Specific vs General should prioritize Wildhunt feature.
First I’d like to say that I agree that the wildhunt features description cancels out the barbarians reckless attack debuff.
that being said, class features are also specific Rules, so this is specific vs specific.
That is true according to the RAW definition of specific beats general, but the RAI is all about relativity. The rule's origin should not be what is measured, its application should. The wildhunt trait works specifically in the scenario that reckless attack creates, reckless attack does not specifically prevent the wildhunt trait.
Most rule contradictions are either general vs general or specific vs specific if we go by the less than thought out "only everything that goes on a character sheet or monster stat block is specific" definition.
3) Specific vs General should prioritize Wildhunt feature.
First I’d like to say that I agree that the wildhunt features description cancels out the barbarians reckless attack debuff.
that being said, class features are also specific Rules, so this is specific vs specific.
That is true according to the RAW definition of specific beats general, but the RAI is all about relativity. The rule's origin should not be what is measured, its application should. The wildhunt trait works specifically in the scenario that reckless attack creates, reckless attack does not specifically prevent the wildhunt trait.
Most rule contradictions are either general vs general or specific vs specific if we go by the less than thought out "only everything that goes on a character sheet or monster stat block is specific" definition.
General vs specific has nothing to do with the level of detail a rule goes into.
general rules depend on their location and chapter. Chapter 5 regarding equipment is general. Chapters 7 through 10 are general.
chapter 2, 3, 4, 6, and 11 are specific as far as the PHB seems to go.
Jeremy Crawford described this on a DnD podcast once.
kind of a nonissue regarding the original post but this seems to be specific vs specific. A class feature is a specific exception. A racial feature is also a specific exception.
while I agree that wildhunt works, those benefits are mutually exclusive and both stem from specific features. The creatures are granted advantage and also have it taken away.
reckless attack isn’t a general rule that generates advantage like say, being prone while attacked within 5 feet. being attacked by a hidden creature would also generate advantage and wildhunt would overcome that since it’s general. The problem is that since they’re mutually exclusive you have to choose for one to work or the other, and I’d rather err on the side for the player in this interaction.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I've played 5e for a number of years but I often misunderstand a rule or something. I'm a big fan of synergizing my characters and I've found a few things that seem TOO good to be true. As usual, I'm concerned that I've misunderstood something so I'm hoping the more savvy players and DMs can correct me on things.
1) The Dwarven Immortal: The Durable feat states 'Increase your Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20. When you roll a Hit Die to regain hit points, the minimum number of hit points you regain from the roll equals twice your Constitution modifier (minimum of 2).' The Dwarven Fortitude Feat states 'Increase your Constitution score by 1, to a maximum of 20. Whenever you take the Dodge action in combat, you can spend one Hit Die to heal yourself. Roll the die, add your Constitution modifier, and regain a number of hit points equal to the total (minimum of 1).'
The way I read this is that a Dwarf with both of these Feats gains +2 Con and every time they Dodge, they can regain HP equal to one hit die plus their Con modifier and the minimum number you can roll is equal to TWICE the Con modifier. So, a Dodging Dwarf Fighter with a +4 Con mod regains at LEAST 8 HP, yes?
2) The Fighter's Unarmed Fighting Style states 'Your unarmed strikes can deal bludgeoning damage equal to 1d6 + your Strength modifier on a hit. If you aren’t wielding any weapons or a shield when you make the attack roll, the d6 becomes a d8.' One of the benefits of the Monk's Martial Arts trait states 'When you use the Attack action with an unarmed strike or a monk weapon on your turn, you can make one unarmed strike as a bonus action. For example, if you take the Attack action and attack with a quarterstaff, you can also make an unarmed strike as a bonus action, assuming you haven’t already taken a bonus action this turn.'
Does this mean that an unarmed Monk with a level of Fighter and the Unarmed Fighting Style can do 1D8 with a single unarmed attack as well as a second 1D8 with a Bonus Action attack?
3) A Barbarian making a Reckless Attack gains Advantage on their melee attacks but enemies gain Advantage to attack them as well. However, the Wildhunt Shifter subrace has a trait that states 'While shifted, you have Advantage on Wisdom checks, and no creature within 30 feet of you can make an attack roll with Advantage against you unless you’re incapacitated.'
Does this mean that melee enemies attacking a Wildhunt Shifter Barbarian making Reckless Attacks does NOT get Advantage?
Thanks in advance for clearing these up for me.
1) Yes that's correct with both feats.
2) Yes since you're making unarmed strike.
3) Specific vs General should prioritize Wildhunt feature.
1) Yes, but keep in mind you have a limited number of Hit Dice, so it's still a form of emergency healing similar to a Fighter's Second Wind ability. It is nice knowing that you're guaranteed a decent amount with each use, though.
2) Yes, but keep in mind a couple of things: First, to get the d8 from the Fighting Style, you need both hands free. So if you attack with something like a Quarterstaff and then make an Unarmed Strike, you'll be limited to a d6 unless you drop/stow the weapon. Second, a Monk's Unarmed Strike damage scales as they level up. So their Unarmed Strikes will be doing a d6 by Level 5 and a d8 by Level 11, at which point the only advantage of having the Fighting Style is the auto-damage to creatures they have Grappled.
3) The rule for Wildhunt Shifters says "and no creature within 30 feet of you can make an attack roll with advantage against you unless you’re incapacitated.", it does NOT have "unless you're the reason they were granted Advantage on the attack in the first place", so yes that combo would work just fine.
Correct on all accounts. The only caveat I would say is that I think it would be reasonable (though I wouldn't do it myself) for a DM to rule that you can't make reckless attacks while shifted, on account of the rules AND fiction of the two features both seeming to be in conflict. Again, though, I don't think this is a likely ruling, I don't think it's a necessary ruling, just something that you might want to bear in mind I guess.
I've thought often about the dodge dwarf. Monk would let you do it as a bonus action. Still, hit dice are a resource and monks want to take short rests pretty often anyway. Seems kinda unimpressive tbh.
Thanks for the rapid replies, everyone. I hate building a theory-crafted character based on an idea only to find out that I misinterpreted a rule.
The Shifter Barb seems like a really strong build to me based on what I see my current team's Barb getting into.
Considering you have to choose between raging and shifting on the first turn and cant really use any bonus action options you have until the third turn it definitely has drawbacks to go with its benefits.
You don't have to Rage though to use Reckless Attack. and since it's done when attacking, you should be able do so while Shifting just fine. I don't see any conflict rule-wise.
A fair point. You don't HAVE to be Raging in order to use Reckless Attack. It's just how most Barbs are played.
Of course Rage is the Barbarian's bread and butter, i was more saying that because Rage has limited use per day with a set duration and end clause, so when not raging you can still use Reckless Attack since its not a prerequisit.
But like DxJxC said, the action economy has some considerations to have.
First I’d like to say that I agree that the wildhunt features description cancels out the barbarians reckless attack debuff.
that being said, class features are also specific Rules, so this is specific vs specific.
That is true according to the RAW definition of specific beats general, but the RAI is all about relativity. The rule's origin should not be what is measured, its application should. The wildhunt trait works specifically in the scenario that reckless attack creates, reckless attack does not specifically prevent the wildhunt trait.
Most rule contradictions are either general vs general or specific vs specific if we go by the less than thought out "only everything that goes on a character sheet or monster stat block is specific" definition.
General vs specific has nothing to do with the level of detail a rule goes into.
general rules depend on their location and chapter. Chapter 5 regarding equipment is general. Chapters 7 through 10 are general.
chapter 2, 3, 4, 6, and 11 are specific as far as the PHB seems to go.
Jeremy Crawford described this on a DnD podcast once.
kind of a nonissue regarding the original post but this seems to be specific vs specific. A class feature is a specific exception. A racial feature is also a specific exception.
while I agree that wildhunt works, those benefits are mutually exclusive and both stem from specific features. The creatures are granted advantage and also have it taken away.
reckless attack isn’t a general rule that generates advantage like say, being prone while attacked within 5 feet. being attacked by a hidden creature would also generate advantage and wildhunt would overcome that since it’s general. The problem is that since they’re mutually exclusive you have to choose for one to work or the other, and I’d rather err on the side for the player in this interaction.