Could a character, using a light weapon with the dueling fighting style, make their attack benefiting from the +2 to damage, and then draw another light weapon and make a two weapon fighting bonus attack with it? I think this could work, they meet the conditions of the dueling style at the time they make the attack(s) with their primary weapon, and drawing and using a weapon in the same turn also works. The conditions of both Dueling and Two Weapon Fighting are each met at the time that each of the different attacks take place, but not both at the same time.
Clearly the bonus attack is subject to the usual rules of two weapon fighting, and they would need to get rid of the off hand weapon before being able to benefit from the dueling fighting style on subsequent turns.
I put together a Swashbuckler 4/College of Sword 6 character, that could, if this works, choose the Dueling fighting style and use a Scimitar as a primary weapon and optionally, draw and throw or attack with a Dagger as a bonus attack, giving three chances to land the Sneak Attack. I like the idea of making two Scimitar attacks, stepping back, and throwing a Dagger into the back of another opponent. I know I could go with the Two Weapon Fighting style and make this work, but I would prefer not to lose the benefit of the Dueling style just for the sake of an occasional bonus attack. It's not something I think you would do often, as it means giving up your Cunning Action.
You have to be holding the second weapon when you make the attack with the first weapon to use Two Weapon Fighting, so no.
I agree that you can interpret the rules on two weapon fighting this way, but I think my interpretation might also be valid. Certainly you need to be holding a light melee weapon in one hand when you take the Attack action, but I think you does not necessarily imply that you need to have your off hand weapon in hand at the same time. After all, the Bonus attack takes place subsequent to the Attack action.
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, - check
you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon - check
that you're holding in the other hand - check
It seem clear that you could reverse the order, draw and throw a dagger as a bonus attack and then benefit from Dueling for the primary weapon attacks. Why should the order matter?
You have to be holding the second weapon when you make the attack with the first weapon to use Two Weapon Fighting, so no.
That's not true:
"When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand."
That's why twf doesn't have a rules explosion if you start with a dagger out, throw it, then draw a second dagger and throw it. It just works fine.
Both weapons must be in hand when making the first attack as confirmed in Sage Advice Compendium:
Can I make an attack with one weapon, then draw a second weapon with my other hand and qualify to use two-weapon fighting? To use the two-weapon fighting bonus action (PH, 195), you must have both weapons in hand when you make the first attack.
You need to be fighting with 2 weapons at the same time in order to use 2 weapon fighting bonus action.
Taking the attack action and attacking with a weapon is the tigger, the weapon in your other hand is the target, and attacking with that weapon as a bonus action is the effect. If there is no weapon in your other hand at time of attack, there is no weapon to attack with.
Both weapons must be in hand when making the first attack as confirmed in Sage Advice Compendium:
Can I make an attack with one weapon, then draw a second weapon with my other hand and qualify to use two-weapon fighting? To use the two-weapon fighting bonus action (PH, 195), you must have both weapons in hand when you make the first attack.
Thanks for this, that's pretty definitive. But that means that you can draw a Dagger, choose the Attack action while having a light weapon in each hand, throw the Dagger as a bonus action, then benefit from Dueling for your primary weapon attacks as "you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons". Seems counter intuitive that the order of the actions makes two weapon fighting possible in one case but impossible in the other.
You draw that dagger. You can do that for free. You make the Attack action. Still fine. You have now made all your attacks unless you have a Reaction. So if they run away, you can then take a swing at them, and that would get the benefit from Dueling. Otherwise, no Dueling.
You draw that dagger. You can do that for free. You make the Attack action. Still fine. You have now made all your attacks unless you have a Reaction. So if they run away, you can then take a swing at them, and that would get the benefit from Dueling. Otherwise, no Dueling.
I don't believe this is true. Sage Advice Compendium says that "you must have both weapons in hand when you make the first attack." The first attack is to throw the dagger using the two weapon fighting bonus action. ("You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified ... "). The next attacks take place while "you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" so Dueling applies.
Thanks for this, that's pretty definitive. But that means that you can draw a Dagger, choose the Attack action while having a light weapon in each hand, throw the Dagger as a bonus action, then benefit from Dueling for your primary weapon attacks as "you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons". Seems counter intuitive that the order of the actions makes two weapon fighting possible in one case but impossible in the other.
No the bonus action attack comes second.
Two-Weapon: Fighting When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand.
Thanks for this, that's pretty definitive. But that means that you can draw a Dagger, choose the Attack action while having a light weapon in each hand, throw the Dagger as a bonus action, then benefit from Dueling for your primary weapon attacks as "you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons". Seems counter intuitive that the order of the actions makes two weapon fighting possible in one case but impossible in the other.
No the bonus action attack comes second.
Two-Weapon: Fighting When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand.
You have to be holding the second weapon when you make the attack with the first weapon to use Two Weapon Fighting, so no.
That's not true:
"When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand."
That's why twf doesn't have a rules explosion if you start with a dagger out, throw it, then draw a second dagger and throw it. It just works fine.
I’m glad the rest of the thread has kind of settled this, but just to be clear, the text you quoted says exactly what I said: you have to be holding both weapons at the same time.
Thanks for this, that's pretty definitive. But that means that you can draw a Dagger, choose the Attack action while having a light weapon in each hand, throw the Dagger as a bonus action, then benefit from Dueling for your primary weapon attacks as "you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons". Seems counter intuitive that the order of the actions makes two weapon fighting possible in one case but impossible in the other.
No the bonus action attack comes second.
Two-Weapon: Fighting When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand.
Okay. Thanks all for clearing this up.
Do note that if you throw a weapon with that first attack, the bonus action attack can benefit from dueling.
Thanks for this, that's pretty definitive. But that means that you can draw a Dagger, choose the Attack action while having a light weapon in each hand, throw the Dagger as a bonus action, then benefit from Dueling for your primary weapon attacks as "you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons". Seems counter intuitive that the order of the actions makes two weapon fighting possible in one case but impossible in the other.
No the bonus action attack comes second.
Two-Weapon: Fighting When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand.
Okay. Thanks all for clearing this up.
Do note that if you throw a weapon with that first attack, the bonus action attack can benefit from dueling.
Of if the order is primary-throw-primary, the second primary benefits from dueling. Not sure it's worth it, but interesting from a theoretical perspective.
Hi All,
Could a character, using a light weapon with the dueling fighting style, make their attack benefiting from the +2 to damage, and then draw another light weapon and make a two weapon fighting bonus attack with it? I think this could work, they meet the conditions of the dueling style at the time they make the attack(s) with their primary weapon, and drawing and using a weapon in the same turn also works. The conditions of both Dueling and Two Weapon Fighting are each met at the time that each of the different attacks take place, but not both at the same time.
Clearly the bonus attack is subject to the usual rules of two weapon fighting, and they would need to get rid of the off hand weapon before being able to benefit from the dueling fighting style on subsequent turns.
I put together a Swashbuckler 4/College of Sword 6 character, that could, if this works, choose the Dueling fighting style and use a Scimitar as a primary weapon and optionally, draw and throw or attack with a Dagger as a bonus attack, giving three chances to land the Sneak Attack. I like the idea of making two Scimitar attacks, stepping back, and throwing a Dagger into the back of another opponent. I know I could go with the Two Weapon Fighting style and make this work, but I would prefer not to lose the benefit of the Dueling style just for the sake of an occasional bonus attack. It's not something I think you would do often, as it means giving up your Cunning Action.
Let me know if I over looked something.
As near as I can figure, no. The moment a second weapon is in your hand, you are no longer dueling.
<Insert clever signature here>
You have to be holding the second weapon when you make the attack with the first weapon to use Two Weapon Fighting, so no.
I agree that you can interpret the rules on two weapon fighting this way, but I think my interpretation might also be valid. Certainly you need to be holding a light melee weapon in one hand when you take the Attack action, but I think you does not necessarily imply that you need to have your off hand weapon in hand at the same time. After all, the Bonus attack takes place subsequent to the Attack action.
When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, - check
you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon - check
that you're holding in the other hand - check
It seem clear that you could reverse the order, draw and throw a dagger as a bonus attack and then benefit from Dueling for the primary weapon attacks. Why should the order matter?
That's not true:
"When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you're holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you're holding in the other hand."
That's why twf doesn't have a rules explosion if you start with a dagger out, throw it, then draw a second dagger and throw it. It just works fine.
Both weapons must be in hand when making the first attack as confirmed in Sage Advice Compendium:
You need to be fighting with 2 weapons at the same time in order to use 2 weapon fighting bonus action.
Taking the attack action and attacking with a weapon is the tigger, the weapon in your other hand is the target, and attacking with that weapon as a bonus action is the effect. If there is no weapon in your other hand at time of attack, there is no weapon to attack with.
Thanks for this, that's pretty definitive. But that means that you can draw a Dagger, choose the Attack action while having a light weapon in each hand, throw the Dagger as a bonus action, then benefit from Dueling for your primary weapon attacks as "you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons". Seems counter intuitive that the order of the actions makes two weapon fighting possible in one case but impossible in the other.
You draw that dagger. You can do that for free. You make the Attack action. Still fine. You have now made all your attacks unless you have a Reaction. So if they run away, you can then take a swing at them, and that would get the benefit from Dueling. Otherwise, no Dueling.
<Insert clever signature here>
I don't believe this is true. Sage Advice Compendium says that "you must have both weapons in hand when you make the first attack." The first attack is to throw the dagger using the two weapon fighting bonus action. ("You choose when to take a bonus action during your turn, unless the bonus action's timing is specified ... "). The next attacks take place while "you are wielding a melee weapon in one hand and no other weapons" so Dueling applies.
No the bonus action attack comes second.
Two-Weapon: Fighting When you take the Attack action and attack with a light melee weapon that you’re holding in one hand, you can use a bonus action to attack with a different light melee weapon that you’re holding in the other hand.
Okay. Thanks all for clearing this up.
I’m glad the rest of the thread has kind of settled this, but just to be clear, the text you quoted says exactly what I said: you have to be holding both weapons at the same time.
Do note that if you throw a weapon with that first attack, the bonus action attack can benefit from dueling.
Of if the order is primary-throw-primary, the second primary benefits from dueling. Not sure it's worth it, but interesting from a theoretical perspective.
Yes, you are correct. Your second attack with the scimitar benefits from Dueling.
<Insert clever signature here>