Mold Earth, the cantrip, allows you to move a 5 foot cube of earth or stone up to 5 feet. If you're in a cave and you dislodge it from the roof and let it drop on an enemy, how much damage would it deal?
Through some rough calculations I determined it would weigh about 6 tons. 125 cubic feet is 3.54 cubic meters(3539605 cubic centimeters), and stone has a density of 1.602 grams per cubic centimeter. Total weight is 5.6 million grams, which converts to 6.17 US tons.
For reference, the average car weighs about 1.5-2 tons.
This seems like something that would typically be a often-used maneuver, rather than a one-time thing. Therefore, I’m going to be ruling purely on a balance perspective, rather than an internal consistency perspective, such as by using the Tasha’s falling on other creatures rules.
I’d say, if you mold earth to drop rock on someone, it becomes its own special use case of the spell, kind of like how you can attack with produce flame. It only targets a single creature directly before the earth, and they can make a Dex save against spell save DC. On a fail, they take 1d6 nonmagical bludgeoning damage (with normal cantrip scaling). Regardless of if they pass or fail they move to an open spot of their choice within 5 feet as to not be in the same space as the recently moved earth. This is all entirely homebrew, so don’t take it as something you should expect a DM to let you do, though.
As it turns out though, I looked at Mold Earth again and it, unfortunately, clearly states that you're only allowed to move dirt. One of the first lines confused me, when it said you could target earth or stone.
Mold Earth, the cantrip, allows you to move a 5 foot cube of earth or stone up to 5 feet. If you're in a cave and you dislodge it from the roof and let it drop on an enemy, how much damage would it deal?
Through some rough calculations I determined it would weigh about 6 tons. 125 cubic feet is 3.54 cubic meters(3539605 cubic centimeters), and stone has a density of 1.602 grams per cubic centimeter. Total weight is 5.6 million grams, which converts to 6.17 US tons.
For reference, the average car weighs about 1.5-2 tons.
There are several things to cover here:
If mold earth would work on it, it can't be in the ceiling. The target earth has to already be loose.
Mold Earth can't target stone, only "earth", i.e. soil.
Loose, dry dirt is about 9500 pounds for 125 cubic feet, or 4.75 US tons. It's a bit more if it's wet.
The rules for falling creatures, including one falling onto the other, have damage be dealt strictly based on how far the object fell. For no apparent reason, weight is irrelevant.
Dropping objects onto creatures has almost no rules support, but the DMG lists a damage value for "falling rubble", at 4d10 damage.
I think the least broken way to resolve it is via the Tasha's rules, so have the falling object take falling damage for a creature, and have the target beneath make a Dex save, DC 15 - on a failure, it is knocked prone and takes half the falling damage of the falling object.
Shape Water is much, much better at dropping heavy things on people you don't like, incidentally.
Shape Water allows you to freeze it. Pour your waterskin out on the floor, move it to the ceiling, into one of the cracks between the blocks, and *bam*. You can do this from 30 feet away, and drop a 5 foot cube of stone down in an instant by wiggling your fingers, or maybe just pointing. You'll do surprisingly little damage. It's already been mentioned that weight is not a consideration for damage from things falling. You can drop part of the ceiling on someone's head and do at most 6 points of damage. It's a waste of a perfectly good Action.
I'd suggest Mind Sliver. You can cast that from 60 feet away, it does Psychic damage, and if they fail the save, not only do they take the same 6 points of damage potentially, but their next save gets messed with. The damage from Mind Sliver even goes up with level, and Int saves are less common than most. The only component if the spell is Verbal so for full effect you can call them a nasty name as part of the casting.
Shape Water allows you to freeze it. Pour your waterskin out on the floor, move it to the ceiling, into one of the cracks between the blocks, and *bam*. You can do this from 30 feet away, and drop a 5 foot cube of stone down in an instant by wiggling your fingers, or maybe just pointing. You'll do surprisingly little damage. It's already been mentioned that weight is not a consideration for damage from things falling. You can drop part of the ceiling on someone's head and do at most 6 points of damage. It's a waste of a perfectly good Action.
I'd suggest Mind Sliver. You can cast that from 60 feet away, it does Psychic damage, and if they fail the save, not only do they take the same 6 points of damage potentially, but their next save gets messed with. The damage from Mind Sliver even goes up with level, and Int saves are less common than most. The only component if the spell is Verbal so for full effect you can call them a nasty name as part of the casting.
A stone block wouldn’t necessarily be limited to dealing 6 damage at most.
DMG pg 249 gives guidance for “improvising damage” by providing a useful table along with examples of what might cause those levels of damage.
DMG pg 246-247 gives guidance on “objects” by asigning various object examples hitpoints and AC. While these mechanics don’t seem to be used very often, the mechanics can be used together to provide a foundation for players looking to have more interaction with the environment. In particular it may reward spellcasters who who choose spells that enable object targeting like fire bolt or shatter. Your martial characters might also enjoy having an Adamantine maul they’ve had created/bought to help solve Door/Wall problems.
It always makes me crazy trying to find specific information in the DMG on D&D Beyond. No page numbers. Near as I can figure you're talking about the section on Traps. A Deadly level Trap at 1st to 4th level does 4d10. That's pretty darned good for a cantrip that isn't supposed to be able to do damage.
It always makes me crazy trying to find specific information in the DMG on D&D Beyond. No page numbers. Near as I can figure you're talking about the section on Traps. A Deadly level Trap at 1st to 4th level does 4d10. That's pretty darned good for a cantrip that isn't supposed to be able to do damage.
the collapsing rubble 4d10 others have mentioned is under improvised damage under the combat section in Chapter 8. I’m on mobile or I would link it for you
The trap information is actually on the same page right after the improvised damage section in the DMG.
I don’t own any digital DnD references, just all the books. How to categorize rules and Information is definitely a daunting undertaking when moving information into digital media.
does DnDbeyond have a tool for customizing your own DM screen page?
Mold Earth, the cantrip, allows you to move a 5 foot cube of earth or stone up to 5 feet. If you're in a cave and you dislodge it from the roof and let it drop on an enemy, how much damage would it deal?
Through some rough calculations I determined it would weigh about 6 tons. 125 cubic feet is 3.54 cubic meters(3539605 cubic centimeters), and stone has a density of 1.602 grams per cubic centimeter. Total weight is 5.6 million grams, which converts to 6.17 US tons.
For reference, the average car weighs about 1.5-2 tons.
You can move loose earth (not stone). The ceiling in a cave isn't loose by any metric since it's sturdy enough to hold the ceiling of the cave together. A cave floor isn't loose enough either. I'd say dirt outside in a field of grass etc. is loose enough to use.
That said, I think that amount of weight in rocks would insta kill most things if they failed a dex save to dodge.
Mold Earth, the cantrip, allows you to move a 5 foot cube of earth or stone up to 5 feet. If you're in a cave and you dislodge it from the roof and let it drop on an enemy, how much damage would it deal?
Through some rough calculations I determined it would weigh about 6 tons. 125 cubic feet is 3.54 cubic meters(3539605 cubic centimeters), and stone has a density of 1.602 grams per cubic centimeter. Total weight is 5.6 million grams, which converts to 6.17 US tons.
For reference, the average car weighs about 1.5-2 tons.
This seems like something that would typically be a often-used maneuver, rather than a one-time thing. Therefore, I’m going to be ruling purely on a balance perspective, rather than an internal consistency perspective, such as by using the Tasha’s falling on other creatures rules.
I’d say, if you mold earth to drop rock on someone, it becomes its own special use case of the spell, kind of like how you can attack with produce flame. It only targets a single creature directly before the earth, and they can make a Dex save against spell save DC. On a fail, they take 1d6 nonmagical bludgeoning damage (with normal cantrip scaling). Regardless of if they pass or fail they move to an open spot of their choice within 5 feet as to not be in the same space as the recently moved earth. This is all entirely homebrew, so don’t take it as something you should expect a DM to let you do, though.
That seems very reasonable for a cantrip.
As it turns out though, I looked at Mold Earth again and it, unfortunately, clearly states that you're only allowed to move dirt. One of the first lines confused me, when it said you could target earth or stone.
There are several things to cover here:
I think the least broken way to resolve it is via the Tasha's rules, so have the falling object take falling damage for a creature, and have the target beneath make a Dex save, DC 15 - on a failure, it is knocked prone and takes half the falling damage of the falling object.
Shape Water is much, much better at dropping heavy things on people you don't like, incidentally.
Thanks! Mold Earth confused me because it says you can target stone, but then it says "if you target dirt you can move it." I missed that part.
My character has Shape Water as well, but I thought getting water above them would be more difficult than already having stone above them.
You can target stone only for the effects that specifically say you can target stone (which is 2 out of the 3 effects, but not the “excavate” one)
Shape Water allows you to freeze it. Pour your waterskin out on the floor, move it to the ceiling, into one of the cracks between the blocks, and *bam*. You can do this from 30 feet away, and drop a 5 foot cube of stone down in an instant by wiggling your fingers, or maybe just pointing. You'll do surprisingly little damage. It's already been mentioned that weight is not a consideration for damage from things falling. You can drop part of the ceiling on someone's head and do at most 6 points of damage. It's a waste of a perfectly good Action.
I'd suggest Mind Sliver. You can cast that from 60 feet away, it does Psychic damage, and if they fail the save, not only do they take the same 6 points of damage potentially, but their next save gets messed with. The damage from Mind Sliver even goes up with level, and Int saves are less common than most. The only component if the spell is Verbal so for full effect you can call them a nasty name as part of the casting.
<Insert clever signature here>
A stone block wouldn’t necessarily be limited to dealing 6 damage at most.
DMG pg 249 gives guidance for “improvising damage” by providing a useful table along with examples of what might cause those levels of damage.
DMG pg 246-247 gives guidance on “objects” by asigning various object examples hitpoints and AC. While these mechanics don’t seem to be used very often, the mechanics can be used together to provide a foundation for players looking to have more interaction with the environment. In particular it may reward spellcasters who who choose spells that enable object targeting like fire bolt or shatter. Your martial characters might also enjoy having an Adamantine maul they’ve had created/bought to help solve Door/Wall problems.
It always makes me crazy trying to find specific information in the DMG on D&D Beyond. No page numbers. Near as I can figure you're talking about the section on Traps. A Deadly level Trap at 1st to 4th level does 4d10. That's pretty darned good for a cantrip that isn't supposed to be able to do damage.
<Insert clever signature here>
the collapsing rubble 4d10 others have mentioned is under improvised damage under the combat section in Chapter 8. I’m on mobile or I would link it for you
The trap information is actually on the same page right after the improvised damage section in the DMG.
I don’t own any digital DnD references, just all the books. How to categorize rules and Information is definitely a daunting undertaking when moving information into digital media.
does DnDbeyond have a tool for customizing your own DM screen page?
You can move loose earth (not stone). The ceiling in a cave isn't loose by any metric since it's sturdy enough to hold the ceiling of the cave together. A cave floor isn't loose enough either. I'd say dirt outside in a field of grass etc. is loose enough to use.
That said, I think that amount of weight in rocks would insta kill most things if they failed a dex save to dodge.
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