Unclear on this one. It says it ripples out from a central point, but it also says it fills a 60ft sphere. However usually when area spells go around cover, it is specifically mentioned in the spell description. This came up in our session tonight where a character was hiding behind full cover, but still got hit by a CoD spell.
I feel like - because there are spells which specifically call out being able to spread around cover - that if a spell does not say that - it can't spread around cover.
But then - we all know the devs aren't exactly consistent with that sort of ruling.
The general rule is found i the area of effect section in the PHB. The spell doesn’t specify an exception, so it should follow the general rule:
"A spell's effect expands in straight lines from the point of origin. If no unblocked straight line extends from the point of origin to a location within the area of effect, that location isn't included in the spell's area. To block one of these imaginary lines, an obstruction must provide total cover, as explained in chapter 9."
So I think the answer is yes, total cover blocks CoD.
The general rule is found i the area of effect section in the PHB. The spell doesn’t specify an exception, so it should follow the general rule:
"A spell's effect expands in straight lines from the point of origin. If no unblocked straight line extends from the point of origin to a location within the area of effect, that location isn't included in the spell's area. To block one of these imaginary lines, an obstruction must provide total cover, as explained in chapter 9."
So I think the answer is yes, total cover blocks CoD.
I agree with this. Spells follow the general rules unless they specify an exception. Circle of death does not (it doesn't even say "fill" or anything).
For those that are trying to rules lawyer or use natural language to dance around the obvious RAI, AND RAW, it is a hard no. There is no protection from this spell, other than some kind of protective shell. There is no line of sight ruling possible. This works like Fireball, or Fog Cloud, or Sleet Storm, or Sickening Radiance or any other VOLUME spell.The fact that many of those spell state "it spreads around corners" and this one does not is totally irrelevant. It has been well established over the years that WOTC is incompetent when it comes to consistency of wording, plus sphere = VOLUME. The spell caster can choose to cast this thing with some point in a 3D space, and the sphere will be formed from that point, until it hits something like the ground.
If the caster chooses a point on flat ground, the shape of the spell is a hemisphere.
If someone says "I launch a small nuclear device, and it explodes, irradiating an volume with a 60 foot radius", no one on the planet would agree with the idea "there is a small wall between me and the point where the bomb exploded that I dive behind, protecting me from all damage". Someone behind that wall MIGHT be protected from the blast wave, and MAYBE from full heat damage, but NOT from the radioactive damage. If that person was in a bomb shelter, 20 feet underground, different story.
The people I feel most sorry for are the ones that come to a Rules and Mechanics forum, hoping for an explanation of rules, and get served with disinformation which they then infect their tables with until some DM sets them straight. It is far worse when it is the DM that imports this disinformation to their table, and experienced players go "huh????" when their spells they have used for years are incorrectly adjudicated by some DM who gets bad information.
All that being said, a smart DM/player will simply say "I cast the spell at a point some 20-40 feet in the air, and I will let the DM run the calculus to see what area is on the ground is affected as the ground represents a plane (2 dimensional construct) intersecting with a 3D construct. That negates any of this line of sight argument.
I mean, you can get outraged, but RAW doesn't imply any sort of secondary blast or expanding radiation after the wave of necrotic energy. And I don't see why you think RAI does either.
The "thin wall" argument might hold water if this was a concussive blast, but it's not. It doesn't do anything to objects. It's a life draining force.
If Indians Jones can protect himself from an AOE by shutting his eyes, I have no problem with cover (thin or otherwise) protecting one from this spell.
For those that are trying to rules lawyer or use natural language to dance around the obvious RAI, AND RAW, it is a hard no. There is no protection from this spell, other than some kind of protective shell. There is no line of sight ruling possible. This works like Fireball, or Fog Cloud, or Sleet Storm, or Sickening Radiance or any other VOLUME spell.The fact that many of those spell state "it spreads around corners" and this one does not is totally irrelevant. It has been well established over the years that WOTC is incompetent when it comes to consistency of wording, plus sphere = VOLUME. The spell caster can choose to cast this thing with some point in a 3D space, and the sphere will be formed from that point, until it hits something like the ground.
The rules as written is a plain and obvious "yes," and there is no RAI to the contrary. The exact wording of AoE rules is:
A spell's effect expands in straight lines from the point of origin. If no unblocked straight line extends from the point of origin to a location within the area of effect, that location isn't included in the spell's area. To block one of these imaginary lines, an obstruction must provide total cover,
Fireball and sleet storm are also blocked by total cover just like circle of death. Fog cloud and sickening radiance have a very relevant special exception of going around corners which specifically changes the area they cover compared to the general RAW, they still can't get into an enclosed space but will fill their normal area even through a small opening.
And how come you are fine with a sphere being blocked by the ground, but not the stone walls of a building?
Fireball and sleet storm are also blocked by total cover just like circle of death. Fog cloud and sickening radiance have a very relevant special exception of going around corners which specifically changes the area they cover compared to the general RAW, they still can't get into an enclosed space but will fill their normal area even through a small opening.
And how come you are fine with a sphere being blocked by the ground, but not the stone walls of a building?
I said a stone wall, not stone walls of a building. IF the building had a solid door, and IF there were windows that provided total cover, that would qualify as the protective shell I mentioned. Leomunds Tiny Hut or the equivalent also works. But if the windows are open, or it is an empty doorframe, nope. It is no different that say , chlorine gas in WW I.
We get that you want it to work that way, but without the "spreads around corners" exception it simply doesn't do so. If you think that WotC simply forgot to add that to CoD and then haven't bothered to fix it in errata/SAC then fine, homebrew it for your games. But RAW (and as far as we know also RAI) CoD IS blocked by cover.
Fireball and sleet storm are also blocked by total cover just like circle of death. Fog cloud and sickening radiance have a very relevant special exception of going around corners which specifically changes the area they cover compared to the general RAW, they still can't get into an enclosed space but will fill their normal area even through a small opening.
And how come you are fine with a sphere being blocked by the ground, but not the stone walls of a building?
Sleet Storm is a little different because it's a cylinder, not a sphere or circle. You'd usually measure the radius at the top of the effect, where there's not likely to be any cover to prevent it from forming a complete circle (stalactites notwithstanding), and then straight down to the bottom. The only cover that would protect targets from Sleet Storm would be a roof.
From a philosophical standpoint, do we not think it's good design for spells at every level of play to interact with the same base combat rules? Is cover meant to not be an issue at a certain point, or what? I'm all for counterplay, and for putting some reasonable limiters on magic. Is this a fringe opinion?
Unclear on this one. It says it ripples out from a central point, but it also says it fills a 60ft sphere. However usually when area spells go around cover, it is specifically mentioned in the spell description. This came up in our session tonight where a character was hiding behind full cover, but still got hit by a CoD spell.
I feel like - because there are spells which specifically call out being able to spread around cover - that if a spell does not say that - it can't spread around cover.
But then - we all know the devs aren't exactly consistent with that sort of ruling.
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Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
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The general rule is found i the area of effect section in the PHB. The spell doesn’t specify an exception, so it should follow the general rule:
"A spell's effect expands in straight lines from the point of origin. If no unblocked straight line extends from the point of origin to a location within the area of effect, that location isn't included in the spell's area. To block one of these imaginary lines, an obstruction must provide total cover, as explained in chapter 9."
So I think the answer is yes, total cover blocks CoD.
I agree with this. Spells follow the general rules unless they specify an exception. Circle of death does not (it doesn't even say "fill" or anything).
I mean, you can get outraged, but RAW doesn't imply any sort of secondary blast or expanding radiation after the wave of necrotic energy. And I don't see why you think RAI does either.
The "thin wall" argument might hold water if this was a concussive blast, but it's not. It doesn't do anything to objects. It's a life draining force.
If Indians Jones can protect himself from an AOE by shutting his eyes, I have no problem with cover (thin or otherwise) protecting one from this spell.
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I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
The rules as written is a plain and obvious "yes," and there is no RAI to the contrary. The exact wording of AoE rules is:
Fireball and sleet storm are also blocked by total cover just like circle of death. Fog cloud and sickening radiance have a very relevant special exception of going around corners which specifically changes the area they cover compared to the general RAW, they still can't get into an enclosed space but will fill their normal area even through a small opening.
And how come you are fine with a sphere being blocked by the ground, but not the stone walls of a building?
As much as I agree with your overall point that Circle of Death IS blocked by cover the rest of your post wasn't completely correct.
Fireball actually have the same "spreads around corners" exception as Fog cloud and Sickening radiance have so it will work the same.
We get that you want it to work that way, but without the "spreads around corners" exception it simply doesn't do so.
If you think that WotC simply forgot to add that to CoD and then haven't bothered to fix it in errata/SAC then fine, homebrew it for your games. But RAW (and as far as we know also RAI) CoD IS blocked by cover.
There's no RAW basis for this claim. It's not how AOE spells work, and Circle of Death has no specific exception to the general AOE rules.
Oops, I missed that. Why is it in a different paragraph for this spell? Trademark WotC consistency...
Sleet Storm is a little different because it's a cylinder, not a sphere or circle. You'd usually measure the radius at the top of the effect, where there's not likely to be any cover to prevent it from forming a complete circle (stalactites notwithstanding), and then straight down to the bottom. The only cover that would protect targets from Sleet Storm would be a roof.
From a philosophical standpoint, do we not think it's good design for spells at every level of play to interact with the same base combat rules? Is cover meant to not be an issue at a certain point, or what? I'm all for counterplay, and for putting some reasonable limiters on magic. Is this a fringe opinion?
Thanks for the responses!