It requires ground / terrain. The surface of water is not ground/terrain. However, if the sides are slooped enough it could follow through the water across the bottom. It's magical force pulled by magic, so I doubt the water would impede movement - but that's a DM call. Of course, the disk only carries things, it doesn't protect them, so if you are going to have it move underwater, probably best to find a way to waterproof the goods on it first.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I think that the back half of the spell adequately describes what happens when you cross a pit/slope (regardless of whether that pit is filled with water):
...It can move across uneven terrain, up or down stairs, slopes and the like, but it can’t cross an elevation change of 10 feet or more. For example, the disk can’t move across a 10-foot-deep pit, nor could it leave such a pit if it was created at the bottom.
If you move more than 100 feet from the disk (typically because it can’t move around an obstacle to follow you), the spell ends.
So if you jump down a 11+ foot cliff? Disc ain't fallowing you. Dive down a 11+ foot pool? Probably not following you to the bottom, unless the shore was sloped. Water Walking over a 101+ foot deep depth? It breaks. Water Walking over something 100 feet or shallower, that had sloped shores? Your disc is probably scooting along as close as possible directly beneath you along the bottom.
I don’t think that does adequately say what would happen. I personally do not consider the bottom of a body of water to be “the ground.” I’m sure some people would; ultimately it’s an ill-defined term.
If you cast Entangle on a pond, would you be tempted to have the plants at surface level? Mid-depth for swimming critters? Or just on the pond bottom?
“Ground” is a fuzzy word, but I usually only extend it so far as to encompass “floors,” not any and all arbitrary 2D planes (walls, liquid surfaces, liquid space at some z level below surface but above bottom). Others could differ, but keep a mind towards consistency
I promise I’m not being glib, but what I’d be tempted to say is “why are you trying to cast entangle in the water?”
But to get at the heart of the question, I’d have the vines sprout from the lake bed or whatever, but not because I sincerely think that’s “the ground.” Rather it’s because I prefer to be flexible when it makes sense to be. With floating disk, if the party are trudging through a swamp that’s five feet deep, I would allow the disk to float above the water. If they’re trudging along the bottom of a deep lake, I’d allow it to treat the lake bed as the “ground” of the spell text. But a very strict reading of the spell according to how I use the words in question would mean the disk simply can’t be anywhere with the same z-coordinate as a significant body of water (and neither could entangle be cast).
[EDIT] And, I want to say that that strict reading creates what I think we can probably agree is a pretty silly ruling. But the solution in my mind is not to amend how I think of “the ground,” but instead to acknowledge that the text is written by human beings who can’t think of every possible edge case and that it’s our job as human DMs to use our brains and do what makes sense, even if it means letting “ground” mean “the surface of a body of water” or “the earth at the bottom thereof” (whichever makes more sense to the situation at hand).
My players are moving through a swamp, and I was wondering if Tenser's would enable them to carry their gear across the puddles and small patches of water when solid land was not available. It is kind of fuzzy as written but I think in this case I will probably allow the water surface to be enough of a reverb that the magic counts it.
Personally I'd allow people to move it underwater or on the surface of water as they want. Frankly it's a very weak spell. It has uses, of course, but only very minor ones. Buffing it to go over water isn't game breaking to me. A ring of water-walking is uncommon and is such a little effect that it would be fine as a reward for a 1st level character. So, applying that to floating disc seems ok to me.
I miss the previous versions. You could move it around as you need, rather than having it trail 20 ft behind. My psionic shardmind used to just stand on his and use that for his movement. It ignored most difficult terrain and looked cool for a psion to do. The disc has been seriously nerfed in this edition. It provides only a minimal convenience - so slight buffs to overcome water? Pefectly okie doke in my book.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond. Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ thisFAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
I don’t think that does adequately say what would happen. I personally do not consider the bottom of a body of water to be “the ground.” I’m sure some people would; ultimately it’s an ill-defined term.
If you drain the pond - or just do a Red Sea schtick and part the water of the pond - the pond's bottom absolutely is "the ground" ...
I would allow a reading of "ground" relative to the caster. So if the caster has water walk cast on them, Tenser would follow them over the water, but if they were swimming/wading/in a small boat, then Tenser is using the bottom of the body of water (as the nearest "solid" ground 20' away and under the caster, unless they also get it into the small boat and hold it so it doesn't move overboard). Might not be completely RAW, but it seems fair.
What does the average person walk on in your campaigns? What do you walk on in real life? Hint: It's "the ground". This ain't rocket science.
As to swamps: The disk will rise & fall with the ground/dirt/earth/roots/solid stuff. As long as the water is 3' deep or less, you're good to go. If things are relatively waterproof or water resistant, and have reasonable weight compared to your movement speed, you're okay even it is deeper than 3', just a little damp. Note that this is a flat disk, no sides to keep things from sliding off underwater if you move too fast (or if those things float). Mud could be a issue, I'd rule that it supports the disk as much as the mud is made of dirt. So if the mud is 4' deep, and 75% dirt, the disk is supported for 75% of the 4' (aka 3'). If the mud is half dirt, half water, the disk is supported at 2' (50% of the 4' of mud). Mold Earth is your friend here, making the path normal terrain where ever you really need it, 5' at a time.
As to thru water / over water / in the air: In my opinion, it would reasonable to home brew that the disk uses a variant of the rule from Find Steed, namely "you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target your steed disk." So if you can walk on water, so can your disk, if you have a swim speed, so does disk, if you can fly, the disk follows thru the air, and so on. This could also apply to races that naturally have those abilities, as beings that naturally move in three dimensions would design a disk that did the same. Triton's Disk wouldn't sink like anchor.
I would allow the disk to float over the pools of water while you're in the swamp. This is done by using a liberal definition of what ground refers to.
I see no reason to consider water as "not terrain" or "not ground", regardless of whether the caster is (with or without spells) able to walk on it or not. If it has a surface it's ground. I.e., I take the meaningful distinction here to be "not in the air above a surface". You can walk across solid-state water, or you can swim along the surface of liquid-state water. I see no reason to disallow the disk from following.
I also wish we just had the legacy spell that you could willingly move... I miss using it as my main means of conveyance. :P
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
I see no reason to consider water as "not terrain" or "not ground".
Standard use of the English language is a really good reason. Merriam-Webster literally states "the bottom of a body of water" as a definition for ground, with "soil, earth" being another. It's not a matter of having a surface, as the disk doesn't work over water, climb up walls, nor cling to ceilings, despite all those things being a surface.
If It's a frozen body of water, then sure, the disk can follow you. If it's still liquid, the disk will do it's impression of the Titanic.
Can Tensers floating disk cross water?
Thx,
Evan
Through water: yes. Across water: No.
It requires ground / terrain. The surface of water is not ground/terrain. However, if the sides are slooped enough it could follow through the water across the bottom. It's magical force pulled by magic, so I doubt the water would impede movement - but that's a DM call. Of course, the disk only carries things, it doesn't protect them, so if you are going to have it move underwater, probably best to find a way to waterproof the goods on it first.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
The spell description doesn’t give a straight answer, so I think it’s a DM call. I would allow it, within the other limits of the spell.
I think that the back half of the spell adequately describes what happens when you cross a pit/slope (regardless of whether that pit is filled with water):
So if you jump down a 11+ foot cliff? Disc ain't fallowing you. Dive down a 11+ foot pool? Probably not following you to the bottom, unless the shore was sloped. Water Walking over a 101+ foot deep depth? It breaks. Water Walking over something 100 feet or shallower, that had sloped shores? Your disc is probably scooting along as close as possible directly beneath you along the bottom.
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I don’t think that does adequately say what would happen. I personally do not consider the bottom of a body of water to be “the ground.” I’m sure some people would; ultimately it’s an ill-defined term.
If you cast Entangle on a pond, would you be tempted to have the plants at surface level? Mid-depth for swimming critters? Or just on the pond bottom?
“Ground” is a fuzzy word, but I usually only extend it so far as to encompass “floors,” not any and all arbitrary 2D planes (walls, liquid surfaces, liquid space at some z level below surface but above bottom). Others could differ, but keep a mind towards consistency
dndbeyond.com forum tags
I'm going to make this way harder than it needs to be.
I promise I’m not being glib, but what I’d be tempted to say is “why are you trying to cast entangle in the water?”
But to get at the heart of the question, I’d have the vines sprout from the lake bed or whatever, but not because I sincerely think that’s “the ground.” Rather it’s because I prefer to be flexible when it makes sense to be. With floating disk, if the party are trudging through a swamp that’s five feet deep, I would allow the disk to float above the water. If they’re trudging along the bottom of a deep lake, I’d allow it to treat the lake bed as the “ground” of the spell text. But a very strict reading of the spell according to how I use the words in question would mean the disk simply can’t be anywhere with the same z-coordinate as a significant body of water (and neither could entangle be cast).
[EDIT] And, I want to say that that strict reading creates what I think we can probably agree is a pretty silly ruling. But the solution in my mind is not to amend how I think of “the ground,” but instead to acknowledge that the text is written by human beings who can’t think of every possible edge case and that it’s our job as human DMs to use our brains and do what makes sense, even if it means letting “ground” mean “the surface of a body of water” or “the earth at the bottom thereof” (whichever makes more sense to the situation at hand).
My players are moving through a swamp, and I was wondering if Tenser's would enable them to carry their gear across the puddles and small patches of water when solid land was not available. It is kind of fuzzy as written but I think in this case I will probably allow the water surface to be enough of a reverb that the magic counts it.
Thanks.
Personally I'd allow people to move it underwater or on the surface of water as they want. Frankly it's a very weak spell. It has uses, of course, but only very minor ones. Buffing it to go over water isn't game breaking to me. A ring of water-walking is uncommon and is such a little effect that it would be fine as a reward for a 1st level character. So, applying that to floating disc seems ok to me.
I miss the previous versions. You could move it around as you need, rather than having it trail 20 ft behind. My psionic shardmind used to just stand on his and use that for his movement. It ignored most difficult terrain and looked cool for a psion to do. The disc has been seriously nerfed in this edition. It provides only a minimal convenience - so slight buffs to overcome water? Pefectly okie doke in my book.
Click ✨ HERE ✨ For My Youtube Videos featuring Guides, Tips & Tricks for using D&D Beyond.
Need help with Homebrew? Check out ✨ this FAQ/Guide thread ✨ by IamSposta.
If you drain the pond - or just do a Red Sea schtick and part the water of the pond - the pond's bottom absolutely is "the ground" ...
I would allow a reading of "ground" relative to the caster. So if the caster has water walk cast on them, Tenser would follow them over the water, but if they were swimming/wading/in a small boat, then Tenser is using the bottom of the body of water (as the nearest "solid" ground 20' away and under the caster, unless they also get it into the small boat and hold it so it doesn't move overboard). Might not be completely RAW, but it seems fair.
What does the average person walk on in your campaigns? What do you walk on in real life? Hint: It's "the ground". This ain't rocket science.
As to swamps: The disk will rise & fall with the ground/dirt/earth/roots/solid stuff. As long as the water is 3' deep or less, you're good to go. If things are relatively waterproof or water resistant, and have reasonable weight compared to your movement speed, you're okay even it is deeper than 3', just a little damp. Note that this is a flat disk, no sides to keep things from sliding off underwater if you move too fast (or if those things float). Mud could be a issue, I'd rule that it supports the disk as much as the mud is made of dirt. So if the mud is 4' deep, and 75% dirt, the disk is supported for 75% of the 4' (aka 3'). If the mud is half dirt, half water, the disk is supported at 2' (50% of the 4' of mud). Mold Earth is your friend here, making the path normal terrain where ever you really need it, 5' at a time.
As to thru water / over water / in the air: In my opinion, it would reasonable to home brew that the disk uses a variant of the rule from Find Steed, namely "you can make any spell you cast that targets only you also target your
steeddisk." So if you can walk on water, so can your disk, if you have a swim speed, so does disk, if you can fly, the disk follows thru the air, and so on. This could also apply to races that naturally have those abilities, as beings that naturally move in three dimensions would design a disk that did the same. Triton's Disk wouldn't sink like anchor.I would allow the disk to float over the pools of water while you're in the swamp. This is done by using a liberal definition of what ground refers to.
I see no reason to consider water as "not terrain" or "not ground", regardless of whether the caster is (with or without spells) able to walk on it or not. If it has a surface it's ground. I.e., I take the meaningful distinction here to be "not in the air above a surface". You can walk across solid-state water, or you can swim along the surface of liquid-state water. I see no reason to disallow the disk from following.
I also wish we just had the legacy spell that you could willingly move... I miss using it as my main means of conveyance. :P
You don't know what fear is until you've witnessed a drunk bird divebombing you while carrying a screaming Kobold throwing fire anywhere and everywhere.
Standard use of the English language is a really good reason. Merriam-Webster literally states "the bottom of a body of water" as a definition for ground, with "soil, earth" being another. It's not a matter of having a surface, as the disk doesn't work over water, climb up walls, nor cling to ceilings, despite all those things being a surface.
If It's a frozen body of water, then sure, the disk can follow you. If it's still liquid, the disk will do it's impression of the Titanic.
ROFL...!!
ROFL...!!
"Impression of the Titanic" .... ROFL!!
on an aside - if i tied a 30ft pole to the disc so that 21ft of it hangs over the edge, then sat on that pole - have i created a mode of transport?
so heres the plan;
bring a 30ft pole with a chair on the end.
tie the pole to the disc
sit on the chair so that by leaning forward you are 20.5ft from the disk, and leaning back you are 19.5ft away from the disk.
carry a 4 ft pole for steering purposes (punting)
load up and enjoy the ride!