I have several doubts about darkness rules. In theory, a creature suffers from the blind status when trying to see in a heavely oscured area (let's suppose it is magical darkness to count out darkvision). If a creature inside the darkness had truesight it should be able to attack with advantage to all other enemies without truesight or other means to see in magical darkness? As when you attack a creature that doesn't see you, you have advantage. Let's suppose we have a player without true sight or any other means to see in magical darkness placed inside a 30 feet square of magical darkness. Following the rules as written, a creature is blinded when looking into a creature inside a heavely oscured area. In this case, if there was a monsters outside the dark area, the player inside the center of the dark area should be able to see it without being blinded, as the monsters in not in a dark area. This makes no sense, as the rules should probably account this darkness blocking vision, but I want to hear people's take into this. Also, what if he was in the border of this area instead of in the center? Thanks for any help.
As a start, I just want to say that if you follow the rules on vision and light by the book, there are some nonsensical results.
But I think the thing you claim as not making sense is actually how it should work. If creature A is in an area of darkness and B is in an area of light, A should be able to easily see B, yet B should be unable to make out A. It is easy to see from an area of darkness into an area of light, while the reverse is difficult.
But darkness (all darkness) counts as heavily obscured area, and heavily obscured areas block vision entirely according to the rules. That means that vision in both directions is blocked if any darkness is between any two creatures. Those rules have lead to many headaches and discussions here, and many alternate play styles.
The RAW is pretty clear so, most people deviate from it at this point.
Going instead with something like: You CAN see through darkness and it doesn't block vision IF what you are looking at is in a light source level you are able to see in. If the darkness is unnatural(or an obscuring element is like a cloud of smoke) and you have no way to see in it, you can't. You can't see while inside to another area inside or to an area outside of the unnatural darkness. If you are outside, you can't see into the unnatural darkness or to an area beyond it in the path of your line of sight.
Let's suppose we have a player without true sight or any other means to see in magical darkness placed inside a 30 feet square of magical darkness. Following the rules as written, a creature is blinded when looking into a creature inside a heavely oscured area. In this case, if there was a monsters outside the dark area, the player inside the center of the dark area should be able to see it without being blinded, as the monsters in not in a dark area. This makes no sense, as the rules should probably account this darkness blocking vision, but I want to hear people's take into this. Also, what if he was in the border of this area instead of in the center? Thanks for any help.
The player character wouldn't be able to see outside magical darkess such as the Darkness spell since it can't see through.
For mundane darkness vs normal vision, heavily obscured area says it block vision, basically blinded when trying to see something in that area, but not outside. The DMG also reference basically being able to see through heavily obscured area from such darkness.
Darkness & Light: The light of a torch or lantern helps a character over a short distance, but other creatures can that light source from far away. Bright light in an environment of total darkness can be visible for miles
For mundane darkness vs normal vision, heavily obscured area says it block vision, basically blinded when trying to see something in that area, but not outside. The DMG also reference basically being able to see through heavily obscured area from such darkness.
You combined two sentences here. At least strictly RAW, the effective blindness only works in one direction even though the heavy obscurement occurs in both. Blocking vision entirely would definitely not mean that you can see through, even if blinded only applies to people trying to see in an area of heavy obscurement. Your reading is not required by the two sentences you are talking about.
Darkness & Light: The light of a torch or lantern helps a character over a short distance, but other creatures can that light source from far away. Bright light in an environment of total darkness can be visible for miles
This is part of the problem of inconsistency that I mentioned in my first post. This sentence's purpose in the rules is different than telling us how darkness works, and as such it shows that the rules designers wanted to write darkness and light rules that made sense. But it doesn't mean that the rules of light and vision are different than what is presented in the PHB.
For mundane darkness vs normal vision, heavily obscured area says it block vision, basically blinded when trying to see something in that area, but not outside. The DMG also reference basically being able to see through heavily obscured area from such darkness.
You combined two sentences here. At least strictly RAW, the effective blindness only works in one direction even though the heavy obscurement occurs in both. Blocking vision entirely would definitely not mean that you can see through, even if blinded only applies to people trying to see in an area of heavy obscurement. Your reading is not required by the two sentences you are talking about.
Yeah you cannot not be blinded when trying to see something outside heavily obscured area all while having your vision also blocked by it.
You cannot have all heavily obscured areas and mundane darkness behaves the same way since you want mundane darkness to not block vision but magical one to. It's not new 4E had the same problem due to the same reason.
But the DMG provide further guidelines for Darkness & Light specifically. I wish this was in the PHB entry instead for more clarity.
Yeah you cannot not be blinded when trying to see something outside heavily obscured area all while having your vision also blocked by it.
You are effectively blinded when you look into an area of heavy obscurement, but heavy obscurment still blocks vision entirely. So correct, you aren't effectively blinded, but vision is blocked entirely.
You cannot have all heavily obscured areas and mundane darkness behaves the same way since you want mundane darkness to not block vision but magical one to. It's not new 4E had the same problem due to the same reason.
I am not saying that at all. I am saying that all heavily obscured areas, including both mundane and magical darkness, should block vision entirely. I'm just repeating the sentence "A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely."
DxJxC described pretty well how it could be run in that reading that the "area" that is heavily obscured depends on what the area is obscured by and where the viewer is looking. Darkness only obscures dark areas. Foliage might obscure everything behind it, etc. Using that particular reading you can come up with some intuitive results. The only trouble with it is that it isn't obvious you should define the areas that way from the text on the page.
Or they could simply say mundane darkness doesn't block vision.
This is the way I have always resolved it. You can see a distant light across an expanse of darkness. You cannot see a distant light across an expanse of darkness.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
"Not all those who wander are lost"
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
I have several doubts about darkness rules.
In theory, a creature suffers from the blind status when trying to see in a heavely oscured area (let's suppose it is magical darkness to count out darkvision).
If a creature inside the darkness had truesight it should be able to attack with advantage to all other enemies without truesight or other means to see in magical darkness? As when you attack a creature that doesn't see you, you have advantage.
Let's suppose we have a player without true sight or any other means to see in magical darkness placed inside a 30 feet square of magical darkness. Following the rules as written, a creature is blinded when looking into a creature inside a heavely oscured area. In this case, if there was a monsters outside the dark area, the player inside the center of the dark area should be able to see it without being blinded, as the monsters in not in a dark area. This makes no sense, as the rules should probably account this darkness blocking vision, but I want to hear people's take into this. Also, what if he was in the border of this area instead of in the center?
Thanks for any help.
As a start, I just want to say that if you follow the rules on vision and light by the book, there are some nonsensical results.
But I think the thing you claim as not making sense is actually how it should work. If creature A is in an area of darkness and B is in an area of light, A should be able to easily see B, yet B should be unable to make out A. It is easy to see from an area of darkness into an area of light, while the reverse is difficult.
But darkness (all darkness) counts as heavily obscured area, and heavily obscured areas block vision entirely according to the rules. That means that vision in both directions is blocked if any darkness is between any two creatures. Those rules have lead to many headaches and discussions here, and many alternate play styles.
The RAW is pretty clear so, most people deviate from it at this point.
Going instead with something like: You CAN see through darkness and it doesn't block vision IF what you are looking at is in a light source level you are able to see in. If the darkness is unnatural(or an obscuring element is like a cloud of smoke) and you have no way to see in it, you can't. You can't see while inside to another area inside or to an area outside of the unnatural darkness. If you are outside, you can't see into the unnatural darkness or to an area beyond it in the path of your line of sight.
The player character wouldn't be able to see outside magical darkess such as the Darkness spell since it can't see through.
For mundane darkness vs normal vision, heavily obscured area says it block vision, basically blinded when trying to see something in that area, but not outside. The DMG also reference basically being able to see through heavily obscured area from such darkness.
Darkness & Light: The light of a torch or lantern helps a character over a short distance, but other creatures can that light source from far away. Bright light in an environment of total darkness can be visible for miles
This is part of the problem of inconsistency that I mentioned in my first post. This sentence's purpose in the rules is different than telling us how darkness works, and as such it shows that the rules designers wanted to write darkness and light rules that made sense. But it doesn't mean that the rules of light and vision are different than what is presented in the PHB.
Yeah you cannot not be blinded when trying to see something outside heavily obscured area all while having your vision also blocked by it.
You cannot have all heavily obscured areas and mundane darkness behaves the same way since you want mundane darkness to not block vision but magical one to. It's not new 4E had the same problem due to the same reason.
But the DMG provide further guidelines for Darkness & Light specifically. I wish this was in the PHB entry instead for more clarity.
You are effectively blinded when you look into an area of heavy obscurement, but heavy obscurment still blocks vision entirely. So correct, you aren't effectively blinded, but vision is blocked entirely.
I am not saying that at all. I am saying that all heavily obscured areas, including both mundane and magical darkness, should block vision entirely. I'm just repeating the sentence "A heavily obscured area—such as darkness, opaque fog, or dense foliage—blocks vision entirely."
DxJxC described pretty well how it could be run in that reading that the "area" that is heavily obscured depends on what the area is obscured by and where the viewer is looking. Darkness only obscures dark areas. Foliage might obscure everything behind it, etc. Using that particular reading you can come up with some intuitive results. The only trouble with it is that it isn't obvious you should define the areas that way from the text on the page.
Or they could simply say mundane darkness doesn't block vision.
This is the way I have always resolved it. You can see a distant light across an expanse of darkness. You cannot see a distant light across an expanse of darkness.
"Not all those who wander are lost"