Warlocks. Some people love them, some people hate them. I am sort of in between. When most people think of them, they think that you have to be evil, you have to be a Drow, et cettera, et cettera. I always think of Eldritch Blast as being their best move, but really, they are so much mroe than that. They might be the best combat spellcaster out there, actually. They have the best cantrip(s) in the game, which can be cast at will. They have a super fun and flavourful RP style, althoguh you are pretty much stuck with Haunted One as your background. They don't have great subclasses, and their capstone ability is kind of lame (not to mention their low-level abilities), so most people never take the time to fully level them up. But, they are SO [REDACTED] AWESOME! The pact magic is a weird way of spellcasting, but it works great for multiclassing. Taking a dip into warlocks as a fighter or barbarian adds some spice to your character, as well as grants you their best abilities (it always comes back to the cantrips) right off the bat. The pact features at level three let you pick your combat style, wether you want a sneaky scout-type, a crushing melee fighter, or an all-out nuke. And as someone who never buys new subclasses (I prefer to invest in monsters, I love running combat with insane demon lords), I have to say, they come with some great free options. My favorite is the UA Undead subclass, although I do like The Lurker in the Deep. *cough cough- cthulhu- cough cough*
So, while the Warlock certainly has its shortcomings, it still ranks high-up as one of the best classes in 5e, and maybe the best for dark fantasy campaigns (Blood Hunters are cool too, but that's a topic for another day).
I have a very Good character who is a Celestial Pact of the Blade Warlock. She uses a longbow - her background is Outlander and she took the prodigy feat for expertise in Survival. She is basically the party's Ranger/Rogue and she doesn't even know the Eldritch Blast spell.
You can do a lot with a Warlock just as you can do with other classes. There is absolutely no need to go Evil generally with a Warlock - especially when the Celestial subclass exists.
Feeling you're stuck with the Haunted One background suggests you have a VERY narrow view of how someone would enter into a Pact. Honestly, nothing about that background's text screams "This is how your Warlock!" to me. There are numerous ways to describe how your character came to enter into a Pact, depending on what type of Patron you're talking about, what the relationship is like between them(even the PHB text offers multiple ways it could be portrayed), etc. If I browse the different Background options, the one that jumps out to me as the most stereotypical "Warlock" background is Sage. But I can also see an Outlander having an encounter with the Fey in a wild forest somewhere. I could see an Inheritor gaining possession of a weapon that would lead them down the Hexblade path. A Folk Hero could easily attract the attention of a Celestial looking for a new champion. And as for the classic "deal with the devil" for a Fiend Patron? Well, there are countless ways someone could be desperate enough to make that bargain. As for Great Old One? I could see Sage, Inheritor, and others leading someone to that kind of ancient forbidden knowledge. And those examples are just off the top of my head, without really going "out of the box".
If you are only playing using the subclasses from the basic rules, you have to either be evil or a haunted one (or both), otherwise your backstory will clash with you build. Not saying you can't do this, just saying it makes life a lot harder.
If you are only playing using the subclasses from the basic rules, you have to either be evil or a haunted one (or both), otherwise your backstory will clash with you build. Not saying you can't do this, just saying it makes life a lot harder.
You never said anything about being restricted to the Basic Rules(seriously, who plays with just the Basic Rules?), and even if you are that doesn't mean you're stuck with "Evil" or "Haunted One". Not even close. Nothing says your Background has to define why you made a Pact. People from many walks of life might find themselves confronted with that choice. And you don't have to be "Evil" to make a Pact with a Fiend. "Desperate" works just as well. So does "Reckless", or "Foolhardy". And I still don't see why you're so hung up on the Haunted One background. What specifically about it screams "Warlock" to you?
If you are only playing using the subclasses from the basic rules, you have to either be evil or a haunted one (or both), otherwise your backstory will clash with you build. Not saying you can't do this, just saying it makes life a lot harder.
If you are only playing with the basic rules, you won't have the haunted one background.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
If you are only playing using the subclasses from the basic rules, you have to either be evil or a haunted one (or both), otherwise your backstory will clash with you build. Not saying you can't do this, just saying it makes life a lot harder.
Why do you have to be evil? You might not even know you entered a pact (thats an option described in the text, btw), so in addition to the reckless, foolish, or desperate others have mentioned, you can add "oblivious" to the list.
The text also says you can be conflicted from your pact and have an adversarial relationship with your patron, so I don't see why an alignment is the issue.
If you are only playing using the subclasses from the basic rules, you have to either be evil or a haunted one (or both), otherwise your backstory will clash with you build. Not saying you can't do this, just saying it makes life a lot harder.
Why do you have to be evil? You might not even know you entered a pact (thats an option described in the text, btw), so in addition to the reckless, foolish, or desperate others have mentioned, you can add "oblivious" to the list.
The text also says you can be conflicted from your pact and have an adversarial relationship with your patron, so I don't see why an alignment is the issue.
I am not saying they have to be evil, just chaotic. If they have conflict about their pact, it is most likely internal conflict. What does that ensue? Chaos.
If you are only playing using the subclasses from the basic rules, you have to either be evil or a haunted one (or both), otherwise your backstory will clash with you build. Not saying you can't do this, just saying it makes life a lot harder.
Why do you have to be evil? You might not even know you entered a pact (thats an option described in the text, btw), so in addition to the reckless, foolish, or desperate others have mentioned, you can add "oblivious" to the list.
The text also says you can be conflicted from your pact and have an adversarial relationship with your patron, so I don't see why an alignment is the issue.
I am not saying they have to be evil, just chaotic. If they have conflict about their pact, it is most likely internal conflict. What does that ensue? Chaos.
"you have to either be evil or a haunted one (or both)"
Your explanation keeps shifting. If you don't like Warlocks that's fine, not everyone has to. But your story reasons for disliking them are confusing.
You don't have to be evil or haunted to be a warlock. There are numerous reasons for entering into a pact. Heck, my GOOlock was involuntarily entered into a pact when he accidentally stumbled into his patrons domain. The patron is barley aware of his existence, and the only "instructions" he's received via visions and dreams is to destroy aberrations. Since he's Neutral Good, such a tasks suits him fine..with no internal conflict.
Just let your imagination run wild. The warlock is really suited for just about any "crazy" backstory/motivation.
I am not saying they have to be evil, just chaotic. If they have conflict about their pact, it is most likely internal conflict. What does that ensue? Chaos.
Why do you think they need to be in conflict with their pact? What if your patron is a unicorn or a Solar?
Basic rules pacts. All the basic rules pacts are with inherently evil creatures, except for maybe the genie (but most people don't use playtest), so if you want to be a good character, you're alignment will clash with your patron's.
I have done some playtesting with them, and for me, it is hard to make a non-evil warlock using only basic rules material. I actually didn't mention this in the first post, but the only thing I don't like about them mechanically is the way they do high level spells (through mystic arcanum). If you only get one per long rest, thats barely better than paladin or ranger spell tables. However, they are still the best combat casters. Eldritch invocations combined with eldritch blast make it the most powerful cantrip in the game.
Basic rules pacts. All the basic rules pacts are with inherently evil creatures, except for maybe the genie (but most people don't use playtest), so if you want to be a good character, you're alignment will clash with your patron's.
The Fae isn't explicitly evil, and the Great Old One is inscrutable. Both could have you working for good. The Raven Queen, patron of most Hexblades, is neutral. And the Celestial is almost always good. Only the fiend is always evil, and fiends want things that could technically be considered good, like the destruction of demons.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
So, fiends like orcus and demogorgon (fiend), cthulhu (great old one), liches, vampires, and deathe knights (the undead). Like I said, the only once close to good is genie, which is neutral, and that one is underpowered compared to the others. True, you get wish, but you have to sacrfice mystic arcanum, and you can only cast it at 18th level.
Even the fiend doesn't have to be evil. Ghost Rider ring a bell?
Looking at mine. Hexblade is Lawful Good. You're bound to a weapon spirit, there's some of those of every alignment.
My Archfey is NG. He's a guardian of forests and wildlands who's trying to prevent an apocalypse.
One of the players in my game is playing a GOO lock. Is CG and has no trouble reconciling it.
Honestly, this seems more like a personal glitch than actual issues with the class. No harm there, we all have them somewhere, but that's not sound basis to say the class has problems.
As an aside. Genie isn't underpowered. I'm kind of worried it'll lose things in Tasha.
Bag of Holding+Mini Mordenkainens Mansion?
Bonus damage to attacks?
Flight at level 6?
A SR in ten minutes for the entire party and a way to smuggle them?
Limited Wish returning and giving utility/emergency access to every spell levels 1-6?
Wish is just the final thing. And you aren't losing Mystic Arcanum, you're getting a better spell than the other options.
So, fiends like orcus and demogorgon (fiend), cthulhu (great old one), liches, vampires, and deathe knights (the undead). Like I said, the only once close to good is genie, which is neutral, and that one is underpowered compared to the others. True, you get wish, but you have to sacrfice mystic arcanum, and you can only cast it at 18th level.
My patron is Kthanid, a Good aligned great old one...
Warlocks. Some people love them, some people hate them. I am sort of in between. When most people think of them, they think that you have to be evil, you have to be a Drow, et cettera, et cettera. I always think of Eldritch Blast as being their best move, but really, they are so much mroe than that. They might be the best combat spellcaster out there, actually. They have the best cantrip(s) in the game, which can be cast at will. They have a super fun and flavourful RP style, althoguh you are pretty much stuck with Haunted One as your background. They don't have great subclasses, and their capstone ability is kind of lame (not to mention their low-level abilities), so most people never take the time to fully level them up. But, they are SO [REDACTED] AWESOME! The pact magic is a weird way of spellcasting, but it works great for multiclassing. Taking a dip into warlocks as a fighter or barbarian adds some spice to your character, as well as grants you their best abilities (it always comes back to the cantrips) right off the bat. The pact features at level three let you pick your combat style, wether you want a sneaky scout-type, a crushing melee fighter, or an all-out nuke. And as someone who never buys new subclasses (I prefer to invest in monsters, I love running combat with insane demon lords), I have to say, they come with some great free options. My favorite is the UA Undead subclass, although I do like The Lurker in the Deep. *cough cough- cthulhu- cough cough*
So, while the Warlock certainly has its shortcomings, it still ranks high-up as one of the best classes in 5e, and maybe the best for dark fantasy campaigns (Blood Hunters are cool too, but that's a topic for another day).
It is done.
What makes you think they need to have a haunted bsckground? That is no more a requirement than being evil.
And lame aubclasses? Hardly.
All classes have shortcomings, if they didnt, then everyone would play the same class.
<-Galen, protector assimar celestial warlock with a custom background.
Going to second the question of why you're pressing specific backgrounds and such.
I have three warlocks currently active in games.
One is a Hexblade/Crown Paladin Pact of Blade that serves as a party tank with the noble background.
One is an Archfey Archer type Pact of Chain scout and ranger type. Background is Far Traveler
Newest is a Marid Genie Warlock with Pact of Time Urchin acting as the party wizard and rogue.
All do fine without issue.
I have a very Good character who is a Celestial Pact of the Blade Warlock. She uses a longbow - her background is Outlander and she took the prodigy feat for expertise in Survival. She is basically the party's Ranger/Rogue and she doesn't even know the Eldritch Blast spell.
You can do a lot with a Warlock just as you can do with other classes. There is absolutely no need to go Evil generally with a Warlock - especially when the Celestial subclass exists.
Mega Yahtzee Thread:
Highest 41: brocker2001 (#11,285).
Yahtzee of 2's: Emmber (#36,161).
Lowest 9: JoeltheWalrus (#312), Emmber (#12,505) and Dertinus (#20,953).
Feeling you're stuck with the Haunted One background suggests you have a VERY narrow view of how someone would enter into a Pact. Honestly, nothing about that background's text screams "This is how your Warlock!" to me. There are numerous ways to describe how your character came to enter into a Pact, depending on what type of Patron you're talking about, what the relationship is like between them(even the PHB text offers multiple ways it could be portrayed), etc. If I browse the different Background options, the one that jumps out to me as the most stereotypical "Warlock" background is Sage. But I can also see an Outlander having an encounter with the Fey in a wild forest somewhere. I could see an Inheritor gaining possession of a weapon that would lead them down the Hexblade path. A Folk Hero could easily attract the attention of a Celestial looking for a new champion. And as for the classic "deal with the devil" for a Fiend Patron? Well, there are countless ways someone could be desperate enough to make that bargain. As for Great Old One? I could see Sage, Inheritor, and others leading someone to that kind of ancient forbidden knowledge. And those examples are just off the top of my head, without really going "out of the box".
If you are only playing using the subclasses from the basic rules, you have to either be evil or a haunted one (or both), otherwise your backstory will clash with you build. Not saying you can't do this, just saying it makes life a lot harder.
It is done.
You never said anything about being restricted to the Basic Rules(seriously, who plays with just the Basic Rules?), and even if you are that doesn't mean you're stuck with "Evil" or "Haunted One". Not even close. Nothing says your Background has to define why you made a Pact. People from many walks of life might find themselves confronted with that choice. And you don't have to be "Evil" to make a Pact with a Fiend. "Desperate" works just as well. So does "Reckless", or "Foolhardy". And I still don't see why you're so hung up on the Haunted One background. What specifically about it screams "Warlock" to you?
If you are only playing with the basic rules, you won't have the haunted one background.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Why do you have to be evil? You might not even know you entered a pact (thats an option described in the text, btw), so in addition to the reckless, foolish, or desperate others have mentioned, you can add "oblivious" to the list.
The text also says you can be conflicted from your pact and have an adversarial relationship with your patron, so I don't see why an alignment is the issue.
I am not saying they have to be evil, just chaotic. If they have conflict about their pact, it is most likely internal conflict. What does that ensue? Chaos.
It is done.
"you have to either be evil or a haunted one (or both)"
Your explanation keeps shifting. If you don't like Warlocks that's fine, not everyone has to. But your story reasons for disliking them are confusing.
You don't have to be evil or haunted to be a warlock. There are numerous reasons for entering into a pact. Heck, my GOOlock was involuntarily entered into a pact when he accidentally stumbled into his patrons domain. The patron is barley aware of his existence, and the only "instructions" he's received via visions and dreams is to destroy aberrations. Since he's Neutral Good, such a tasks suits him fine..with no internal conflict.
Just let your imagination run wild. The warlock is really suited for just about any "crazy" backstory/motivation.
Why do you think they need to be in conflict with their pact? What if your patron is a unicorn or a Solar?
Basic rules pacts. All the basic rules pacts are with inherently evil creatures, except for maybe the genie (but most people don't use playtest), so if you want to be a good character, you're alignment will clash with your patron's.
It is done.
I have done some playtesting with them, and for me, it is hard to make a non-evil warlock using only basic rules material. I actually didn't mention this in the first post, but the only thing I don't like about them mechanically is the way they do high level spells (through mystic arcanum). If you only get one per long rest, thats barely better than paladin or ranger spell tables. However, they are still the best combat casters. Eldritch invocations combined with eldritch blast make it the most powerful cantrip in the game.
It is done.
The Fae isn't explicitly evil, and the Great Old One is inscrutable. Both could have you working for good. The Raven Queen, patron of most Hexblades, is neutral. And the Celestial is almost always good. Only the fiend is always evil, and fiends want things that could technically be considered good, like the destruction of demons.
A fool pulls the leaves. A brute chops the trunk. A sage digs the roots.
My Improved Lineage System
Those aren't basic rules for warlocks. I'm talking about the available ones if you haven't bought phb or xanathars.
It is done.
So, fiends like orcus and demogorgon (fiend), cthulhu (great old one), liches, vampires, and deathe knights (the undead). Like I said, the only once close to good is genie, which is neutral, and that one is underpowered compared to the others. True, you get wish, but you have to sacrfice mystic arcanum, and you can only cast it at 18th level.
It is done.
Even the fiend doesn't have to be evil. Ghost Rider ring a bell?
Looking at mine. Hexblade is Lawful Good. You're bound to a weapon spirit, there's some of those of every alignment.
My Archfey is NG. He's a guardian of forests and wildlands who's trying to prevent an apocalypse.
One of the players in my game is playing a GOO lock. Is CG and has no trouble reconciling it.
Honestly, this seems more like a personal glitch than actual issues with the class. No harm there, we all have them somewhere, but that's not sound basis to say the class has problems.
As an aside. Genie isn't underpowered. I'm kind of worried it'll lose things in Tasha.
Bag of Holding+Mini Mordenkainens Mansion?
Bonus damage to attacks?
Flight at level 6?
A SR in ten minutes for the entire party and a way to smuggle them?
Limited Wish returning and giving utility/emergency access to every spell levels 1-6?
Wish is just the final thing. And you aren't losing Mystic Arcanum, you're getting a better spell than the other options.
My patron is Kthanid, a Good aligned great old one...
https://lovecraft.fandom.com/wiki/Kthanid