This is a workaround I suggested in another thread, and I am wondering how it would work!
Step 1: Use Animate Objects to animate a piano (or other large object). The piano is now a Creature, for 1 minute, whilst you concentrate.
Step 2: Someone else uses Polymorph to turn the piano (which is now a crature) into a smaller creature, such a snail (for throwing) or a bird, to fly up.
Step 3: When the snail/bird/whatever is in position to drop or crash into the target (IE mid-flight whilst being thrown), break concentration.
At this point, the piano stops beign animated, and therefore is no longer a creature. Would you rule that this would cause the orph to end, as it's no longer a valid targte, which in turn causes a piano to appear wherever the creature was (EG on the ceiling of the BBEG's bedroom) and fall on whatever is below? Or does the Polymorph work for as long as it does, and the piano only reappears when the polymorph ends?
Devs have said that targeting rules apply only to targeting, so a if a target of a spell fails to be valid after the spell already takes hold, the spell can continue for its duration. But animated objects do not have a CR (or level), so they’re not eligible targets for the effects of polymorph.
Additionally, there aren’t really rules for how much damage objects do when they fall onto creatures. A DM might rule that a falling object just does improvised weapon damage. Or it might only do fall damage to the animated object. In your scenario, the object isn’t even animated any longer when it crashes into the bad guy - it wouldn’t even do its slam attack damage.
I guess in theory you could try something like this. But I don’t see why anyone would. You are taking two very good high-level spells and making them both much worse than their potential (or even probably a first level spell).
WOTB has it (not technically, but close enough to answer the question) - polymorph can target a creature with no CR, but when you bean a target that has neither a CR nor a level, there are no other forms the spell can turn the target into, so the spell is a waste of time. Animate objects' creatures have neither CR nor level, so polymorph can't change their form. And WOTB is correct on the fall damage - we have rules for a creature falling onto a creature, but for an object falling onto a creature, Tasha's doesn't apply, and the DMG rules that are relevant (the ones for improvising damage values and the ones for traps) are very loose guidelines, meaning your DM will have to guess at both the Dex save DC and the damage value.
Fixed above. But, again if the BBEG gets you to spend a 4th and a 5th level slot to do a few d6s to maybe 4d10 damage one time, that a big win for the villain. That is the bigger gameplay issue with the current scenario.
We’re talking about the damage you might expect from a single casting of guiding bolt or 2nd level inflict wounds from two high level spell slots spent on two generally regarded as excellent spells. That is not value on investment.
Fixed above. But, again if the BBEG gets you to spend a 4th and a 5th level slot to do a few d6s to maybe 4d10 damage one time, that a big win for the villain. That is the bigger gameplay issue with the current scenario.
We’re talking about the damage you might expect from a single casting of guiding bolt or 2nd level inflict wounds from two high level spell slots spent on two generally regarded as excellent spells. That is not value on investment.
How did you link inflict wounds but change the spell name to include "2nd level"?
It is [ spell]spell name; whatever text you want[ /spell] (without added spaces) to change the highlighted text of a spell link. I often use that technique for changing tenses or referencing a specific spell text. You could get creative with it so that necrotic ranged spell attack has a fitting name.
This is a workaround I suggested in another thread, and I am wondering how it would work!
Step 1: Use Animate Objects to animate a piano (or other large object). The piano is now a Creature, for 1 minute, whilst you concentrate.
Step 2: Someone else uses Polymorph to turn the piano (which is now a crature) into a smaller creature, such a snail (for throwing) or a bird, to fly up.
Step 3: When the snail/bird/whatever is in position to drop or crash into the target (IE mid-flight whilst being thrown), break concentration.
At this point, the piano stops beign animated, and therefore is no longer a creature. Would you rule that this would cause the orph to end, as it's no longer a valid targte, which in turn causes a piano to appear wherever the creature was (EG on the ceiling of the BBEG's bedroom) and fall on whatever is below? Or does the Polymorph work for as long as it does, and the piano only reappears when the polymorph ends?
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Devs have said that targeting rules apply only to targeting, so a if a target of a spell fails to be valid after the spell already takes hold, the spell can continue for its duration. But animated objects do not have a CR (or level), so they’re not eligible
targetsfor the effects of polymorph.Additionally, there aren’t really rules for how much damage objects do when they fall onto creatures. A DM might rule that a falling object just does improvised weapon damage. Or it might only do fall damage to the animated object. In your scenario, the object isn’t even animated any longer when it crashes into the bad guy - it wouldn’t even do its slam attack damage.
I guess in theory you could try something like this. But I don’t see why anyone would. You are taking two very good high-level spells and making them both much worse than their potential (or even probably a first level spell).
WOTB has it (not technically, but close enough to answer the question) - polymorph can target a creature with no CR, but when you bean a target that has neither a CR nor a level, there are no other forms the spell can turn the target into, so the spell is a waste of time. Animate objects' creatures have neither CR nor level, so polymorph can't change their form. And WOTB is correct on the fall damage - we have rules for a creature falling onto a creature, but for an object falling onto a creature, Tasha's doesn't apply, and the DMG rules that are relevant (the ones for improvising damage values and the ones for traps) are very loose guidelines, meaning your DM will have to guess at both the Dex save DC and the damage value.
Fixed above. But, again if the BBEG gets you to spend a 4th and a 5th level slot to do a few d6s to maybe 4d10 damage one time, that a big win for the villain. That is the bigger gameplay issue with the current scenario.
We’re talking about the damage you might expect from a single casting of guiding bolt or 2nd level inflict wounds from two high level spell slots spent on two generally regarded as excellent spells. That is not value on investment.
How did you link inflict wounds but change the spell name to include "2nd level"?
It is [ spell]spell name; whatever text you want[ /spell] (without added spaces) to change the highlighted text of a spell link. I often use that technique for changing tenses or referencing a specific spell text. You could get creative with it so that necrotic ranged spell attack has a fitting name.