Been playing nearly 2 years now and have been avoiding the Bladelock/Fighter build but finally gave in and decided to give it a go.
This question has me thinking out the gate on it and I have not found anything regarding the generic vs specific rules on this one as I am about to present them. So here goes.
Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class.
AND
Thirsting Blade
Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
I read them as seperate features as one is generic to the character and the other is specific to the weapon the character is holding.
Part one is from the Fighter "you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
Nice and simple, we get an extra attack.
Now part two from the Warlock " You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
Also nice and simple, we can attack using our "pact weapon twice, instead of once."
For this scenario we have a TWF Fighter with one Extra Attack, the Warlock Thirsting Blade Invocation and are weilding two weapons with all the prerequsites met.
When Two Weapon Fighting you can choose what weapon to attack with when you are holding two weapons. So what if you attack with your normal weapon first then attack with your pact weapon second?
First attack triggers the generic extra attack from the fighter and the second attack triggers the specific pact weapon extra attack which would give you a third.
After all specific always overrules generic right.
TexasDevin is correct, you only get two attacks total. This is covered in the multiclassing rules, in case you wanted written proof.
If you gain the Extra Attack class feature from more than one class, the features don't add together. You can't make more than two attacks with this feature unless it says you do (as the fighter's version of Extra Attack does). Similarly, the warlock's eldritch invocation Thirsting Blade doesn't give you additional attacks if you also have Extra Attack.
Both class features rely on the attack action. Two-weapon fighting does not allow taking the attack action with your off hand weapon, it allows a special attack.
Extra Attack and Thirsting Blade do not stack. If you have Extra Attack, Thirsting Blade is unnecessary.
If you are able to attack twice during your Attack action, and you use two different weapons for those attacks, if you use two-weapon-fighting to attack as a Bonus Action, you can use either weapon. The only thing you can't do is use one weapon for all your Attack action attacks and the same weapon for your Bonus Action attack. After all, it's called two-weapon-fighting, not one-weapon-fighting-while-holding-another.
They're not the same ability name, so we cannot rule them out that way.
They're not even worded identically, so we can't rule them out that way.
In the specific context of attacking with 1 pact weapon and 1 non-pact weapon your extra attack is giving you two attacks, one is your non-pact weapon, and then you can attack twice with your pact weapon instead of once. There is no inconsistencies there either.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
They're not the same ability name, so we cannot rule them out that way.
They're not even worded identically, so we can't rule them out that way.
In the specific context of attacking with 1 pact weapon and 1 non-pact weapon your extra attack is giving you two attacks, one is your non-pact weapon, and then you can attack twice with your pact weapon instead of once. There is no inconsistencies there either.
Tricky tricky.
They plugged that loophole with the multiclassing rule I quoted earlier, which says that Thirsting Blade doesn't apply if you have Extra Attack.
True but that is assuming you are using your pact weapon for all of the attacks not just the one at the end of your extra attacks to get the invocation trigger.
True but that is assuming you are using your pact weapon for all of the attacks not just the one at the end of your extra attacks to get the invocation trigger.
It doesn’t matter. It literally says “Thirsting Blade doesn't give you additional attacks if you also have Extra Attack,” full stop.
Do you have Extra Attack? If yes, Thirsting Blade doesn’t give you additional attacks, no matter the circumstances.
No loophole here it doesn't work as written. Having multiple game elements letting you do the same thing twice instead of once don't stack. A loophole would exit if they instead let you make an additional attack but they use clever wording.
No loophole here it doesn't work as written. Having multiple game elements letting you do the same thing twice instead of once don't stack. A loophole would exit if they instead let you make an additional attack but they use clever wording.
No it would be a loophole, they don't do the same thing, they do similar things... But as Gruntler pointed out there is indeed a specific rule in the Multiclassing chapter that covers this exact interaction to prevent it, by name.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
To post a comment, please login or register a new account.
Been playing nearly 2 years now and have been avoiding the Bladelock/Fighter build but finally gave in and decided to give it a go.
This question has me thinking out the gate on it and I have not found anything regarding the generic vs specific rules on this one as I am about to present them. So here goes.
Extra Attack
Beginning at 5th level, you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
The number of attacks increases to three when you reach 11th level in this class and to four when you reach 20th level in this class.
AND
Thirsting Blade
Prerequisite: 5th level, Pact of the Blade feature
You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn.
I read them as seperate features as one is generic to the character and the other is specific to the weapon the character is holding.
Part one is from the Fighter "you can attack twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
Nice and simple, we get an extra attack.
Now part two from the Warlock " You can attack with your pact weapon twice, instead of once, whenever you take the Attack action on your turn."
Also nice and simple, we can attack using our "pact weapon twice, instead of once."
For this scenario we have a TWF Fighter with one Extra Attack, the Warlock Thirsting Blade Invocation and are weilding two weapons with all the prerequsites met.
When Two Weapon Fighting you can choose what weapon to attack with when you are holding two weapons. So what if you attack with your normal weapon first then attack with your pact weapon second?
First attack triggers the generic extra attack from the fighter and the second attack triggers the specific pact weapon extra attack which would give you a third.
After all specific always overrules generic right.
Thoughts?
You get two attacks with the attack action in your example.
"Not all those who wander are lost"
TexasDevin is correct, you only get two attacks total. This is covered in the multiclassing rules, in case you wanted written proof.
Both class features rely on the attack action. Two-weapon fighting does not allow taking the attack action with your off hand weapon, it allows a special attack.
Extra Attack and Thirsting Blade do not stack. If you have Extra Attack, Thirsting Blade is unnecessary.
If you are able to attack twice during your Attack action, and you use two different weapons for those attacks, if you use two-weapon-fighting to attack as a Bonus Action, you can use either weapon. The only thing you can't do is use one weapon for all your Attack action attacks and the same weapon for your Bonus Action attack. After all, it's called two-weapon-fighting, not one-weapon-fighting-while-holding-another.
Nice loophole. Approved.
This seems to actually work.
Tricky tricky.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.
They plugged that loophole with the multiclassing rule I quoted earlier, which says that Thirsting Blade doesn't apply if you have Extra Attack.
True but that is assuming you are using your pact weapon for all of the attacks not just the one at the end of your extra attacks to get the invocation trigger.
It doesn’t matter. It literally says “Thirsting Blade doesn't give you additional attacks if you also have Extra Attack,” full stop.
Do you have Extra Attack? If yes, Thirsting Blade doesn’t give you additional attacks, no matter the circumstances.
No loophole here it doesn't work as written. Having multiple game elements letting you do the same thing twice instead of once don't stack. A loophole would exit if they instead let you make an additional attack but they use clever wording.
No it would be a loophole, they don't do the same thing, they do similar things... But as Gruntler pointed out there is indeed a specific rule in the Multiclassing chapter that covers this exact interaction to prevent it, by name.
I'm probably laughing.
It is apparently so hard to program Aberrant Mind and Clockwork Soul spell-swapping into dndbeyond they had to remake the game without it rather than implement it.