A question on rulings about how Mounted Combatant and Shield Master might work together when on a mount, as well as when specifically defending against AoE. Apologies if this is a common question, but I didn't find it in the forums.
RAW is that Mounted Combatant allows you to" force an attack targeted at your mount to target you instead", with my understanding being that an AoE like Fireball can't be affected. While I agree AoEs that "spawn" at their destination can't be redirected, is there a case for attacks that originate from the attacker's position? Like how Fireball states "A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose".
If not, what are some of the most effect ways of keeping a mount alive from AoE attacks?
A question on rulings about how Mounted Combatant and Shield Master might work together when on a mount, as well as when specifically defending against AoE. Apologies if this is a common question, but I didn't find it in the forums.
RAW is that Mounted Combatant allows you to" force an attack targeted at your mount to target you instead", with my understanding being that an AoE like Fireball can't be affected. While I agree AoEs that "spawn" at their destination can't be redirected, is there a case for attacks that originate from the attacker's position? Like how Fireball states "A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose".
If not, what are some of the most effect ways of keeping a mount alive from AoE attacks?
I would imagine that spells which don't specifically have 'Target' or 'Creature' are not actually targeting you or your mount but the space that you and your mount occupy at the time the spell was cast. If using a hex or grid map for combat one could say the fireball (or whatever) is targeting a specific hex/grid instead of the creature(s) occupying it.
As for your second question, get a flying mount or give your ground based mount flying perhaps.
Well, mounted combatant does basically give the mount evasion. So if they make their save against that fireball, they are ok.
But basically, mounts are more or less disposable. One failed dex save and your horse dies. Once you hit mid to high levels, they die quick. All I can suggest is be a paladin and summon one. The mount will get the benefits of your aura. And when it inevitably dies, you can re-summon it.
Or drake warden ranger can eventually ride their pet drake.
I sense you want to use mounted combatant's DEX save damage avoidance, and then redirect any half damage to you and then use shield master to negate the damage entirely, or maybe shove your mount out of AoE with your bonus action?
In the latter case the bonus action isn't a reaction. As for double dipping the extra special DEX save, that would just be a hard no, you're too busy shield mastering to save your own skin to take on whatever the mount is simultaneously contending with through a DEX save. Because neither of you are targeted, you're occupying the area of effect. Technically a fireball is fired into the space victims happened to be standing in, it isn't attacking particular victims.
If you're really that hard up to save you mount a DM may grant you some rule of cool (or rule of interspecies pathos, I guess), but yeah the odds of your first horsey surviving to the third and fourth tiers of play are incredibly slim. It's probably better for your game to think about progressing to more robust mounts as the game increases, like ditching the horsey for a T-Rex or something. That'll take a fireball while you're riding it.
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Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Once you get past level 5 or so the only reason your mount will survive combat, even if you've got a build that helps protect them, is because your DM is avoiding killing your mount to avoid the drama. The technical solution is to treat mounts as a resource... it's good to keep them alive but if one dies it's just a matter of buying another one. But it can be hard to parse that with roleplay, especially if your character is empathetic or has some kind of emotional bond to their mount. At that point your best bet is to homebrew something with your DM... at the very least a good DM will at least make sure that your mount actually rolls Death Saves and doesn't just die outright once its HP hits Zero. But it's not uncommon for DM's to either grant a spell like Find Steed somehow to characters other than Paladins, or just have a homebrew rule that mounts can only be knocked unconscious but not killed.
A question on rulings about how Mounted Combatant and Shield Master might work together when on a mount, as well as when specifically defending against AoE. Apologies if this is a common question, but I didn't find it in the forums.
RAW is that Mounted Combatant allows you to" force an attack targeted at your mount to target you instead", with my understanding being that an AoE like Fireball can't be affected. While I agree AoEs that "spawn" at their destination can't be redirected, is there a case for attacks that originate from the attacker's position? Like how Fireball states "A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose".
If not, what are some of the most effect ways of keeping a mount alive from AoE attacks?
I would imagine that spells which don't specifically have 'Target' or 'Creature' are not actually targeting you or your mount but the space that you and your mount occupy at the time the spell was cast. If using a hex or grid map for combat one could say the fireball (or whatever) is targeting a specific hex/grid instead of the creature(s) occupying it.
As for your second question, get a flying mount or give your ground based mount flying perhaps.
But Fireball does have a “target.” It targets the point, then it explodes affecting everything within the area.
It's true that Fireball targets a point in space, but it's a distinction that doesn't make a difference in this matter. The pertinent language is that Mounted Combatant allows the rider to force attacks targeting their mount to target the rider instead. The fireball still is not targeting the Mount with an attack.
Once you get past level 5 or so the only reason your mount will survive combat, even if you've got a build that helps protect them, is because your DM is avoiding killing your mount to avoid the drama. The technical solution is to treat mounts as a resource... it's good to keep them alive but if one dies it's just a matter of buying another one.
This is what I was trying to say, though you do a better job of it. When I realized its cheaper to buy a dozen warhorses than it is to buy plate barding for one, that's when I decided mounts are just supposed to be disposable.
It's true that Fireball targets a point in space, but it's a distinction that doesn't make a difference in this matter. The pertinent language is that Mounted Combatant allows the rider to force attacks targeting their mount to target the rider instead. The fireball still is not targeting the Mount with an attack.
That was my point. Only it doesn’t target the space the creatures are occupying, it targets an adjacent point like a corner/intersection of spaces.
Oh sorry, I misread your statement and thought you were making the opposite of the point you were making lol I know how frustrating it can be when you make a point, then someone responds to it trying to disprove your point while also basically just reaffirming the point you're actually making.
A question on rulings about how Mounted Combatant and Shield Master might work together when on a mount, as well as when specifically defending against AoE. Apologies if this is a common question, but I didn't find it in the forums.
RAW is that Mounted Combatant allows you to" force an attack targeted at your mount to target you instead", with my understanding being that an AoE like Fireball can't be affected. While I agree AoEs that "spawn" at their destination can't be redirected, is there a case for attacks that originate from the attacker's position? Like how Fireball states "A bright streak flashes from your pointing finger to a point you choose".
If not, what are some of the most effect ways of keeping a mount alive from AoE attacks?
I would imagine that spells which don't specifically have 'Target' or 'Creature' are not actually targeting you or your mount but the space that you and your mount occupy at the time the spell was cast. If using a hex or grid map for combat one could say the fireball (or whatever) is targeting a specific hex/grid instead of the creature(s) occupying it.
As for your second question, get a flying mount or give your ground based mount flying perhaps.
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Well, mounted combatant does basically give the mount evasion. So if they make their save against that fireball, they are ok.
But basically, mounts are more or less disposable. One failed dex save and your horse dies. Once you hit mid to high levels, they die quick.
All I can suggest is be a paladin and summon one. The mount will get the benefits of your aura. And when it inevitably dies, you can re-summon it.
Or drake warden ranger can eventually ride their pet drake.
I sense you want to use mounted combatant's DEX save damage avoidance, and then redirect any half damage to you and then use shield master to negate the damage entirely, or maybe shove your mount out of AoE with your bonus action?
In the latter case the bonus action isn't a reaction. As for double dipping the extra special DEX save, that would just be a hard no, you're too busy shield mastering to save your own skin to take on whatever the mount is simultaneously contending with through a DEX save. Because neither of you are targeted, you're occupying the area of effect. Technically a fireball is fired into the space victims happened to be standing in, it isn't attacking particular victims.
If you're really that hard up to save you mount a DM may grant you some rule of cool (or rule of interspecies pathos, I guess), but yeah the odds of your first horsey surviving to the third and fourth tiers of play are incredibly slim. It's probably better for your game to think about progressing to more robust mounts as the game increases, like ditching the horsey for a T-Rex or something. That'll take a fireball while you're riding it.
Jander Sunstar is the thinking person's Drizzt, fight me.
Once you get past level 5 or so the only reason your mount will survive combat, even if you've got a build that helps protect them, is because your DM is avoiding killing your mount to avoid the drama. The technical solution is to treat mounts as a resource... it's good to keep them alive but if one dies it's just a matter of buying another one. But it can be hard to parse that with roleplay, especially if your character is empathetic or has some kind of emotional bond to their mount. At that point your best bet is to homebrew something with your DM... at the very least a good DM will at least make sure that your mount actually rolls Death Saves and doesn't just die outright once its HP hits Zero. But it's not uncommon for DM's to either grant a spell like Find Steed somehow to characters other than Paladins, or just have a homebrew rule that mounts can only be knocked unconscious but not killed.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
But Fireball does have a “target.” It targets the point, then it explodes affecting everything within the area.
It's true that Fireball targets a point in space, but it's a distinction that doesn't make a difference in this matter. The pertinent language is that Mounted Combatant allows the rider to force attacks targeting their mount to target the rider instead. The fireball still is not targeting the Mount with an attack.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
This is what I was trying to say, though you do a better job of it. When I realized its cheaper to buy a dozen warhorses than it is to buy plate barding for one, that's when I decided mounts are just supposed to be disposable.
That was my point. Only it doesn’t target the space the creatures are occupying, it targets an adjacent point like a corner/intersection of spaces.
Oh sorry, I misread your statement and thought you were making the opposite of the point you were making lol I know how frustrating it can be when you make a point, then someone responds to it trying to disprove your point while also basically just reaffirming the point you're actually making.
Watch Crits for Breakfast, an adults-only RP-Heavy Roll20 Livestream at twitch.tv/afterdisbooty
And now you too can play with the amazing art and assets we use in Roll20 for our campaign at Hazel's Emporium
No worries. Lol