Hi,

I'm putting together a new character and I'm worried it is a bit OP.  I wanted the public's advice to ensure I'm reading the rules correctly.  

On the first round of combat, Gloomstalker rangers get the additional attack Dread Ambush. 

Bugbears have a racial feature Surprise Attack: If you hit a creature that has not taken a turn yet in the current combat with an attack roll, it takes an extra 2d6 damage. 

So, if I'm reading that correctly, On the first round of combat, where the target creature has not yet taken it's turn in combat, my character at 3rd level would get up to 3 attacks, Dread Ambush, attack action, and bonus action two weapon fighting. On that first round of combat, assuming all three attacks hit, they get: +2d6 surprise attack damage for Ambush attack, +2d6 surprise attack for normal attack and +2d6 surprise attack for bonus action dual weapon fighting attack. 

As written, I think that is correct. Because if I compare it with the wording on Sneak attack - Once per turn, you can deal an extra 1d6 damage to one creature you hit with an attack with a finesse or ranged weapon if you have advantage on the attack roll.

Really interested in the collective wisdom of the forum if this interpretation is correct... (Kind of OP)

Yep, that's RAW. Yep, it's kinda OP. Gloom Stalker is known for that, and bugbear is too, to a lesser extent.

Yeah, Bugbear and Gloom Stalker have serious synergy.  Of course, the fact that you only get that damage during the first round against creatures that haven't gone yet puts some limits on it.

Thanks for the confirmation on my understanding guys. Just want to make sure I leave some bad guys for the rest of the party ;)

I’d just have two cautions. One is I played with a guy who did a gloomstalker 1st-round nova build like you’re talking about. He was joining the campaign late so came in at level 11 or 12 and everything was up and online. After about 2 sessions, he was bored of it. When you build a character around pulling off a gimmick, once you pull it off, there’s not much left. 
The other is, I’m in a party now with 2 bugbears. We’re level 8, and I think between the two of them they’ve gotten off that first attack maybe 6 or 8 times. Obviously, this will be campaign dependent, but you really need the stars to align in terms of a good initiative roll and a starting encounter distance that lets you actually move up close enough to melee before they go. And that’s factoring in the bugbear’s reach. It’s cool when it works, just don’t expect it to work every time. 

Sound advice. Thanks.

That’s pretty OP at lower levels. At higher levels, it’s ok considering everyone will have like 200hp, so I wouldn’t really worry about it.

This can be reasonable at low levels and technically allowed. Personally if I was the dm I would say only your first attack per action has surprise because after you hit them it’s pretty obvious your there, I mean it’s really up to the DM.

Don't arbitrarily nerf someone's character like that.  Surprise is clearly defined, there's no need to weaken it like that.

Quote from 6thLyranGuard >>

Don't arbitrarily nerf someone's character like that.  Surprise is clearly defined, there's no need to weaken it like that.

I mean, it's alright as long as the player knows it going into character creation. It's fine to change rules as a DM, it's just not okay to pull the rug out from under your players and nerf them after their character is already in use.

Quote from BlackBear_ >>

This can be reasonable at low levels and technically allowed. Personally if I was the dm I would say only your first attack per action has surprise because after you hit them it’s pretty obvious your there, I mean it’s really up to the DM.

[REDACTED]  Remember there isn't anything like a surprise round in 5e.  Surprised is a condition you have:
"If you're surprised, you can't move or take an action on your first turn of the combat, and you can't take a reaction until that turn ends. "  

So that means you being surprised doesn't end until the end of your first turn.

This is something I have seen multitudes of DMs do incorrectly.  Combat starts when someone does something aggressive.  Initiative is rolled, and the DM determines who is surprised or not based on the rules.  It is possible for some part of the enemy to be surprised and others not.  It is also possible for some of one group to gain surprise while other's do not get it.   It is all about initiative- which is why having something like the Alert feat or Jack of All Trades is so critical to ambushers.

I'd be very wary of merging someone's RAW character. I mean it's an option if done before they've built their character, but I'd still be cautious. Remember, in nerfing this, you're actually nerfing them twice - once for being a Gloomstalker (that doesn't have a lot else going for it in many campaigns anyway) and another for being a Bugbear.

Yes, it's a very powerful opening round, at least at lower levels, but after that, it starts to flag a bit as a build. 

Quote from Linklite >>

I'd be very wary of merging someone's RAW character. I mean it's an option if done before they've built their character, but I'd still be cautious. Remember, in nerfing this, you're actually nerfing them twice - once for being a Gloomstalker (that doesn't have a lot else going for it in many campaigns anyway) and another for being a Bugbear.

Yes, it's a very powerful opening round, at least at lower levels, but after that, it starts to flag a bit as a build. 

The build works as well as many other character builds to be honest. A bit better maybe since it is just a racial features but if you are creating a sharpshooter character for example then it adds a bit more damage in the first round. It isn't OP. It doesn't make that much of a difference in the long run and only works against creatures that haven't had a turn yet.

Decent perk on a gloomstalker ranger or a monk and mostly at lower levels. On a level 5 monk with 4 attacks from flurry of blows it amounts to 28 extra average damage if everything hits. Most tier 2 creatures will have more than that ... the bugbear character might take down one opponent but that is it and their damage drops off a lot in subsequent rounds unless they have something like sharpshooter to prop it up.

The bottom line is that it doesn't really need any nerfing.

As soon as the new bugbear came out this was raised, it is a powerful combination, up to the DM but I wouldn't see a need to nerf it as it stands, combining it with fighter for action surge and / or assassin might do so.

Rather than nerfing the PCs effectiveness in round 1 simply add a few more foes so they are forced to deal with rounds 2 & 3+. In theory the bugbear could kill 3 1/4 CR foes in round 1 but have them have to deal with 5-6+ foes as their share of combat will even things out.