Now, the Tentacles action only attacks one creature at a time, but if the target is hit and then fails its save, then it's stunned until the grapple ends. That's it- no successive save attempts at the end of the player's turn so long as MF holds onto the creature. Typically I see an explicit qualifier for things like this (the monster can only grapple one creature at a time with this feature or only one creature can be in the monster's stomach at a time, etc.). But as written, it looks like MF can Tentacles PC 1 on round 1 and if PC 1 fails the save, then it goes ahead and Tentacles PC 2 on round 2, and if PC 2 fails, etc... and the rounds go faster as each player drops out and a 4 PC party gets wiped out in no time.
A PC should theoretically be able to grapple one target per free hand, so why can't MF grapple one for each of its grappling appendages?
A PC should theoretically be able to grapple one target per free hand, so why can't MF grapple one for each of its grappling appendages?
Well that's the thing, it doesn't say how many tentacles it has. The only place where it indicates that it has multiple tentacles is because the name of the action uses the plural "s" but that also strongly implies that it uses multiple tentacles to perform the action.
Sure the character art shows it with four tentacles but the artwork of the books is notoriously poor in matching the statblock of a creature. There are quite a few creatures out there where the equipment in the artwork doesn't match the equipment in the statblock.
TL;DR - The absence of a specific limit in the stat block does NOT mean that only one creature can be targeted with the attack. It is a DM decision since the text does not limit it. RAW, the number of grapple attacks would be unlimited.
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I think the situation will be entirely up to the DM since the wording doesn't specify a limit on the Mind Flayer tentacle attack. RAW, there doesn't appear to be any limit to the number of creatures a Mind Flayer could grapple (since they could take any action in their stat block) with tentacles but it would be reasonable for a DM to rule either one or limit it at the number of tentacles a Mind Flayer has available.
Personally, I think the intent would be one tentacle victim at a time given the nature and size of the Mind Flayer tentacles but the stat block doesn't say which leaves the final decision in the hands of the DM.
The mind flayer is the only creature I could find (using DDB search function) without a specific limit in the stat block on the number of creatures that can be grappled simultaneously by the tentacles. Every other creature, whether the limit is one, two or ten has a number specifically listed (examples at the end if curious :) ).
From a rules perspective, monsters can take any actions in their stat block and the only general limit on grappling is having a "hand free" (which may not apply to monster grapple attacks anyway) - which makes the number of creatures a Mind Flayer could grapple at one time a DM decision.
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The giant octopus has wording that is identical to the Mind Flayer except that it specifies that it can only grapple one creature at a time. So I think referencing a different creature's stat block to get an idea of how the Mind Flayer should work is a red herring. Several stat block references to tentacles are below and all of them place limits on the number of creatures that can be affected by the tentacle attack. The only one I could find that does not place a limit on the number of creatures that may be affected is the Mind Flayer.
MM : "MELEE AND RANGED ATTACKS The most common actions that a monster will take in combat are melee and ranged attacks. These can be spell attacks or weapon attacks, where the "weapon" might be a manufactured item or a natural weapon, such as a claw or tail spike. For more information on different kinds of attacks, see the Player's Handbook."
MM : "GRAPPLE RULES FOR MONSTERS Many monsters have special attacks that allow them to quickly grapple prey. When a monster hits with such an attack, it doesn't need to make an additional ability check to determine whether the grapple succeeds, unless the attack says otherwise."
The general grappling rules say:
PHB: "Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack roll"
.. but this doesn't specifically apply to monsters. However, having a free appendage to make a grapple attack is a reasonable limitation.
Mind Flayer:
Tentacles. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 15 (2d10 + 4) psychic damage. If the target is Medium or smaller, it is grappled (escape DC 15) and must succeed on a DC 15 Intelligence saving throw or be stunned until this grapple ends.
Giant Octopus:
Tentacles. Melee Weapon Attack:+5 to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 10 (2d6 + 3) bludgeoning damage. If the target is a creature, it is grappled (escape DC 16). Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained, and the octopus can't use its tentacles on another target.
Morkoth:
Tentacles. Melee Weapon Attack:+6 to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 15 (3d8 + 2) bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 14) if it is a Large or smaller creature. Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained and takes 15 (3d8 + 2) bludgeoning damage at the start of each of its turns, and the morkoth can’t use its tentacles on another target.
Otuygh:
Tentacle. Melee Weapon Attack:+6 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d8 + 3) bludgeoning damage plus 4 (1d8) piercing damage. If the target is Medium or smaller, it is grappled (escape DC 13) and restrained until the grapple ends. The otyugh has two tentacles, each of which can grapple one target.
Grell:
Tentacles. Melee Weapon Attack:+4 to hit, reach 10 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d10 + 2) piercing damage, and the target must succeed on a DC 11 Constitution saving throw or be poisoned for 1 minute. The poisoned target is paralyzed, and it can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on a success.
The target is also grappled (escape DC 15). If the target is Medium or smaller, it is also restrained until this grapple ends. While grappling the target, the grell has advantage on attack rolls against it and can’t use this attack against other targets. When the grell moves, any Medium or smaller target it is grappling moves with it.
Kraken:
Tentacle. Melee Weapon Attack:+17 to hit, reach 30 ft., one target. Hit: 20 (3d6 + 10) bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 18). Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained. The kraken has ten tentacles, each of which can grapple one target.
Choker:
Tentacle. Melee Weapon Attack:+5 to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d4 + 3) piercing damage. If the target is a Large or smaller creature, it is grappled (escape DC 15). Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained, and the choker can’t use this tentacle on another target. The choker has two tentacles. If this attack is a critical hit, the target also can’t breathe or speak until the grapple ends.
As written, the Mind Flayer stat block places no limits on the number of creatures that can be grappled unlike the other stat blocks with grappling tentacle attacks which specifically indicate the number of creatures that can be targeted. So .. it would be a DM decision how they want to run the creature.
A PC should theoretically be able to grapple one target per free hand, so why can't MF grapple one for each of its grappling appendages?
Well that's the thing, it doesn't say how many tentacles it has. The only place where it indicates that it has multiple tentacles is because the name of the action uses the plural "s" but that also strongly implies that it uses multiple tentacles to perform the action.
Sure the character art shows it with four tentacles but the artwork of the books is notoriously poor in matching the statblock of a creature. There are quite a few creatures out there where the equipment in the artwork doesn't match the equipment in the statblock.
Every other creature with tentacles imposes a specific limit on the number of creatures that can be grappled at the same time (even creatures with multiple tentacles like the Giant Octopus specifically state they can grapple only a single target). The Mind Flayer does NOT impose such a limit and it is a specific outlier in that every other creature appears to have a specified limit. The implication of that (and RAW) would be that the Mind Flayer grapple attacks are unlimited since the stat block does not specify a limit.
The bottom line is that it is up to the DM how they want to run the creature.
Personally, I'd limit it to one grappled target in a game I was running but in terms of how a DM can choose to run it they could have one, an unlimited number, or limit it to however many tentacles the DM decides the creature has.
As you mentioned, art work may not match abilities, but as a DM I'd probably use the available Mind Flayer art work as a basis for a ruling I'd make in this case. (i.e. Mind Flayer has several short tentacles - I'd probably only let it grapple one at a time for a standard Mind Flayer).
While normally a creature's action can be used at-will unless noted otherwise, and Mind Flayer's Tentacules don't have limit like Roper or Constrictor Snake, i would say a limit of 1 creature apply, ruling that using Tentacules again doesn't meet the Grappled conditions anymore as it release it first.
Another thing noteworthy is that Extract Brain doesn't require a target grappled by it's Tentacles, so a Mind Flayer could also use it on "one incapacitated humanoid grappled by the mind flayer." in any way whatsoever, including one of it's hands.
I find it odd that the designers would leave this kind of ambiguity for such an iconic monster when, as previously noted, they are very careful to set explicit limits on other creatures. I agree that the name of the action "Tentacles" implies that at least two are required to perform the attack, but when I realized how OP it looked as written I was surprised that such an oversight wasn't addressed after all these years.
I find it odd that the designers would leave this kind of ambiguity for such an iconic monster when, as previously noted, they are very careful to set explicit limits on other creatures. I agree that the name of the action "Tentacles" implies that at least two are required to perform the attack, but when I realized how OP it looked as written I was surprised that such an oversight wasn't addressed after all these years.
I don't find it the least bit odd that their rules are inconsistent and it wasn't proofread. That is pretty much in line with all the rest of the rules in this edition.
I'm actually more surprised that this is the only one we've noticed so far.
The action block clearly states it is a single attack:
Tentacles. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 15 (2d10 + 4) psychic damage. If the target is Medium or smaller, it is grappled (escape DC 15) and must succeed on a DC 15 Intelligence saving throw or be stunned until this grapple ends.
It does not say things like "Multiattack" or give any other indication in its current stat block that it can make more than one Tentacles attack per action.
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
The action block clearly states it is a single attack:
Tentacles. Melee Weapon Attack: +7 to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 15 (2d10 + 4) psychic damage. If the target is Medium or smaller, it is grappled (escape DC 15) and must succeed on a DC 15 Intelligence saving throw or be stunned until this grapple ends.
It does not say things like "Multiattack" or give any other indication in its current stat block that it can make more than one Tentacles attack per action.
That wasn't actually the question. The question was "Could the tentacles be used to grapple different targets on consecutive turns while maintaining the other grappled creatures in the grappled and stunned condition?" I don't think anyone suggested more than one tentacle attack/turn.
Rule of thumb, if rules aren't clear use commons sense. The tentacles in artwork clearly can't hold 4 creatures. Grapple rules directly imply one grapple a round. I'd refer to Grapple rules in Sage Advice for more clarity on monster.
In the end its never good to read powers or effects into spells or monster or anything that aren't explicitly stated. There is no rule that says how many apples I can put in my PC's mouth. But... we don't really need a rule for it.
Anyways. We're it my game, Mind Flayers can only grapple one person with tentacles, and one with a limb under most normal circumstances. Enjoy!
Rollback Post to RevisionRollBack
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
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Posted this on the MF creature entry as well but figured I'd get quicker answers in the forums.
The MF has four tentacles.
The Tentacles action states that on a hit the target (Medium or smaller) is automatically grappled and must succeed on save...etc.
However, the description does not explicitly say that the MF can only grapple one creature at a time with this action.
Can the MF simultaneously grapple four targets (one per tentacle) at a time?
Asking for a friend.
I think not, for a couple reasons:
An example of both points can be seen in the kraken.
Now, the Tentacles action only attacks one creature at a time, but if the target is hit and then fails its save, then it's stunned until the grapple ends. That's it- no successive save attempts at the end of the player's turn so long as MF holds onto the creature. Typically I see an explicit qualifier for things like this (the monster can only grapple one creature at a time with this feature or only one creature can be in the monster's stomach at a time, etc.). But as written, it looks like MF can Tentacles PC 1 on round 1 and if PC 1 fails the save, then it goes ahead and Tentacles PC 2 on round 2, and if PC 2 fails, etc... and the rounds go faster as each player drops out and a 4 PC party gets wiped out in no time.
A PC should theoretically be able to grapple one target per free hand, so why can't MF grapple one for each of its grappling appendages?
I'd have to agree with DJC, the Mind Flayer has no text that says that it can do multiple grapples and then it can't.
Well that's the thing, it doesn't say how many tentacles it has. The only place where it indicates that it has multiple tentacles is because the name of the action uses the plural "s" but that also strongly implies that it uses multiple tentacles to perform the action.
Sure the character art shows it with four tentacles but the artwork of the books is notoriously poor in matching the statblock of a creature. There are quite a few creatures out there where the equipment in the artwork doesn't match the equipment in the statblock.
TL;DR - The absence of a specific limit in the stat block does NOT mean that only one creature can be targeted with the attack. It is a DM decision since the text does not limit it. RAW, the number of grapple attacks would be unlimited.
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I think the situation will be entirely up to the DM since the wording doesn't specify a limit on the Mind Flayer tentacle attack. RAW, there doesn't appear to be any limit to the number of creatures a Mind Flayer could grapple (since they could take any action in their stat block) with tentacles but it would be reasonable for a DM to rule either one or limit it at the number of tentacles a Mind Flayer has available.
Personally, I think the intent would be one tentacle victim at a time given the nature and size of the Mind Flayer tentacles but the stat block doesn't say which leaves the final decision in the hands of the DM.
The mind flayer is the only creature I could find (using DDB search function) without a specific limit in the stat block on the number of creatures that can be grappled simultaneously by the tentacles. Every other creature, whether the limit is one, two or ten has a number specifically listed (examples at the end if curious :) ).
From a rules perspective, monsters can take any actions in their stat block and the only general limit on grappling is having a "hand free" (which may not apply to monster grapple attacks anyway) - which makes the number of creatures a Mind Flayer could grapple at one time a DM decision.
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The giant octopus has wording that is identical to the Mind Flayer except that it specifies that it can only grapple one creature at a time. So I think referencing a different creature's stat block to get an idea of how the Mind Flayer should work is a red herring. Several stat block references to tentacles are below and all of them place limits on the number of creatures that can be affected by the tentacle attack. The only one I could find that does not place a limit on the number of creatures that may be affected is the Mind Flayer.
MM : "MELEE AND RANGED ATTACKS
The most common actions that a monster will take in combat are melee and ranged attacks. These can be spell attacks or weapon attacks, where the "weapon" might be a manufactured item or a natural weapon, such as a claw or tail spike. For more information on different kinds of attacks, see the Player's Handbook."
MM : "GRAPPLE RULES FOR MONSTERS
Many monsters have special attacks that allow them to quickly grapple prey. When a monster hits with such an attack, it doesn't need to make an additional ability check to determine whether the grapple succeeds, unless the attack says otherwise."
The general grappling rules say:
PHB: "Using at least one free hand, you try to seize the target by making a grapple check instead of an attack roll"
.. but this doesn't specifically apply to monsters. However, having a free appendage to make a grapple attack is a reasonable limitation.
Mind Flayer:
Tentacles. Melee Weapon Attack: +7![]()
to hit, reach 5 ft., one creature. Hit: 15 (2d10 + 4![]()
) psychic damage. If the target is Medium or smaller, it is grappled (escape DC 15) and must succeed on a DC 15 Intelligence saving throw or be stunned until this grapple ends.
Giant Octopus:
Tentacles. Melee Weapon Attack: +5![]()
to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 10 (2d6 + 3![]()
) bludgeoning damage. If the target is a creature, it is grappled (escape DC 16). Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained, and the octopus can't use its tentacles on another target.
Morkoth:
Tentacles. Melee Weapon Attack: +6![]()
to hit, reach 15 ft., one target. Hit: 15 (3d8 + 2![]()
) bludgeoning damage, and the target is grappled (escape DC 14) if it is a Large or smaller creature. Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained and takes 15 (3d8 + 2![]()
) bludgeoning damage at the start of each of its turns, and the morkoth can’t use its tentacles on another target.
Otuygh:
Tentacle. Melee Weapon Attack: +6![]()
to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 7 (1d8 + 3![]()
) bludgeoning damage plus 4 (1d8![]()
) piercing damage. If the target is Medium or smaller, it is grappled (escape DC 13) and restrained until the grapple ends. The otyugh has two tentacles, each of which can grapple one target.
Grell:
Tentacles. Melee Weapon Attack: +4![]()
to hit, reach 10 ft., one creature. Hit: 7 (1d10 + 2![]()
) piercing damage, and the target must succeed on a DC 11 Constitution saving throw or be poisoned for 1 minute. The poisoned target is paralyzed, and it can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on a success.
The target is also grappled (escape DC 15). If the target is Medium or smaller, it is also restrained until this grapple ends. While grappling the target, the grell has advantage on attack rolls against it and can’t use this attack against other targets. When the grell moves, any Medium or smaller target it is grappling moves with it.
Choker:
Tentacle. Melee Weapon Attack: +5![]()
to hit, reach 10 ft., one target. Hit: 5 (1d4 + 3![]()
) piercing damage. If the target is a Large or smaller creature, it is grappled (escape DC 15). Until this grapple ends, the target is restrained, and the choker can’t use this tentacle on another target. The choker has two tentacles. If this attack is a critical hit, the target also can’t breathe or speak until the grapple ends.
As written, the Mind Flayer stat block places no limits on the number of creatures that can be grappled unlike the other stat blocks with grappling tentacle attacks which specifically indicate the number of creatures that can be targeted. So .. it would be a DM decision how they want to run the creature.
Every other creature with tentacles imposes a specific limit on the number of creatures that can be grappled at the same time (even creatures with multiple tentacles like the Giant Octopus specifically state they can grapple only a single target). The Mind Flayer does NOT impose such a limit and it is a specific outlier in that every other creature appears to have a specified limit. The implication of that (and RAW) would be that the Mind Flayer grapple attacks are unlimited since the stat block does not specify a limit.
The bottom line is that it is up to the DM how they want to run the creature.
Personally, I'd limit it to one grappled target in a game I was running but in terms of how a DM can choose to run it they could have one, an unlimited number, or limit it to however many tentacles the DM decides the creature has.
As you mentioned, art work may not match abilities, but as a DM I'd probably use the available Mind Flayer art work as a basis for a ruling I'd make in this case. (i.e. Mind Flayer has several short tentacles - I'd probably only let it grapple one at a time for a standard Mind Flayer).
While normally a creature's action can be used at-will unless noted otherwise, and Mind Flayer's Tentacules don't have limit like Roper or Constrictor Snake, i would say a limit of 1 creature apply, ruling that using Tentacules again doesn't meet the Grappled conditions anymore as it release it first.
In case anyone wonder, this is what Mind Flayer's tentacle grappling a victim look like
Another thing noteworthy is that Extract Brain doesn't require a target grappled by it's Tentacles, so a Mind Flayer could also use it on "one incapacitated humanoid grappled by the mind flayer." in any way whatsoever, including one of it's hands.
I find it odd that the designers would leave this kind of ambiguity for such an iconic monster when, as previously noted, they are very careful to set explicit limits on other creatures. I agree that the name of the action "Tentacles" implies that at least two are required to perform the attack, but when I realized how OP it looked as written I was surprised that such an oversight wasn't addressed after all these years.
I don't find it the least bit odd that their rules are inconsistent and it wasn't proofread. That is pretty much in line with all the rest of the rules in this edition.
I'm actually more surprised that this is the only one we've noticed so far.
The action block clearly states it is a single attack:
It does not say things like "Multiattack" or give any other indication in its current stat block that it can make more than one Tentacles attack per action.
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.
That wasn't actually the question. The question was "Could the tentacles be used to grapple different targets on consecutive turns while maintaining the other grappled creatures in the grappled and stunned condition?" I don't think anyone suggested more than one tentacle attack/turn.
Rule of thumb, if rules aren't clear use commons sense. The tentacles in artwork clearly can't hold 4 creatures. Grapple rules directly imply one grapple a round. I'd refer to Grapple rules in Sage Advice for more clarity on monster.
In the end its never good to read powers or effects into spells or monster or anything that aren't explicitly stated. There is no rule that says how many apples I can put in my PC's mouth. But... we don't really need a rule for it.
Anyways. We're it my game, Mind Flayers can only grapple one person with tentacles, and one with a limb under most normal circumstances. Enjoy!
Remember there are Rules as Written (RAW), Rules as Intended (RAI), and Rules as Fun (RAF). There's some great RAW, RAI, and RAF here... please check in with your DM to determine how they want to adjudicate the RAW/RAI/RAF for your game.