So let's say we have a 15th level Eldritch Knight that has the metamagic adept feat that gives him quickened spell, and the warcaster feat that lets him use spells as an attack of opportunity. On his turn, he uses quickened spell to let him cast green flamed blade as a bonus action, making a melee weapon attack and dealing the additional fire damage. Eldritch Strike applies because the target was hit with a melee weapon attack that was used in the casting of green flamed blade. Then as an action, he casts Lightning Bolt on that same target, and the target then gets disadvantage on the saving throw because of eldritch strike. But then, he uses Action Surge to attack that same target again with three more attacks, and at least one of them hits once again applying Eldritch Strike. This is where his turn ends. But then, on the target's turn, it moves away from his threatened area, therefore provoking an opportunity attack from him. And since he has the warcaster feat, he casts Fireball as his opportunity attack. The creature will then again have disadvantage on the saving throw for that spell because of the Eldritch Strike that was applied at the end of his last turn.
I have seen a varation or two of this scenario, lol. Gets pretty nuts!
To clarify one thing; You're only using the melee weapon as part of the cantrip. You're not taking the Attack action by doing so, you're using the [Tooltip Not Found] action. It varies from table to table, but considering it technically isn't a Weapon Attack, rather a Spell Attack, then it may not work. It is certainly worth the discussion!
A Quickened green-flame blade is still a melee weapon attack (it's not a melee spell attack) so it should qualify for Eldritch Strike, so you could impose disadvantage with it as a bonus action and then cast a spell on the same turn to immediately benefit (as Thezzaruz correctly points out you actually need to do this the other way round, attack with GFB normally, then quicken the other spell, same difference really). Likewise with War Caster you could trigger save disadvantage in advance if you get a reaction attack, or you could use the reaction to benefit from a save disadvantage you already setup.
If you have an ally with dissonant whispers they could help you trigger the reaction attack, since it forces a target to use its own reaction to move, so it triggers opportunity attacks unlike being pushed or teleporting. If you take the Polearm Master feat you can also gain an attack of opportunity when a target enters your reach which is often fairly easy to setup, as you don't actually need to use the polearm you're holding for the attack (though I suspect it's intended that you should).
What I will say though is that War Caster only allows you to cast certain types of spells as an opportunity attack; it needs to be a spell that takes an Action and only targets the creature that is leaving your reach (usually 5 feet), so fireball and other area effects won't qualify since they target a location not a creature. You may also want to ask your DM about green-flame blade in this case as it technically targets you (it has a range of Self), the actual attack is the effect of the spell.
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I have seen a varation or two of this scenario, lol. Gets pretty nuts!
To clarify one thing; You're only using the melee weapon as part of the cantrip. You're not taking the Attack action by doing so, you're using the Cast A Spell action. It varies from table to table, but considering it technically isn't a Weapon Attack, rather a Spell Attack, then it may not work. It is certainly worth the discussion!
My reasoning here is that green flamed blade not only deals the damage of the weapon used, but it also uses strength modifier in the attack roll, instead of spell attack modifier. But yes, the exact reason why I brought this discussion up here was because my DM and I were talking about it pre-campaign.
A Quickened green-flame blade is still a melee weapon attack (it's not a melee spell attack) so it should qualify for Eldritch Strike, so you could impose disadvantage with it as a bonus action and then cast a spell on the same turn to immediately benefit. Likewise with War Caster you could potentially trigger save disadvantage in advance if you get a reaction attack, or you could use the reaction to benefit from a save disadvantage you already setup.
If you have an ally with dissonant whispers they could help you trigger the reaction attack, since it forces a target to use its own reaction to move, so it triggers opportunity attacks unlike being pushed or teleporting. If you take the Polearm Master feat you can also gain an attack of opportunity when a target enters your reach which is often fairly easy to setup, as you don't actually need to use the polearm you're holding for the attack (though I suspect it's intended that you should).
What I will say though is that War Caster only allows you to cast certain types of spells as an opportunity attack; it needs to be a spell that takes an Action and only targets the creature that is leaving your reach (usually 5 feet), so fireball and other area effects won't qualify since they target a location not a creature. You may also want to ask your DM about green-flame blade in this case as it technically targets you (it has a range of Self), the actual attack is the effect of the spell.
Oh, I always thought that I just couldn't hit any other target except the one provoking an opportunity attack. So like, I thought it was fine as long as I cast my spells in a way that only the moving target is hit.
On his turn, he uses quickened spell to let him cast green flamed blade as a bonus action, making a melee weapon attack and dealing the additional fire damage. Eldritch Strike applies because the target was hit with a melee weapon attack that was used in the casting of green flamed blade. Then as an action, he casts Lightning Bolton that same target,
That won't work, you would need to do it the other way around, quicken the Lightning Bolt to a bonus action and use your action to cast GFB. This because of the rules around casting spells with your bonus action.
On his turn, he uses quickened spell to let him cast green flamed blade as a bonus action, making a melee weapon attack and dealing the additional fire damage. Eldritch Strike applies because the target was hit with a melee weapon attack that was used in the casting of green flamed blade. Then as an action, he casts Lightning Bolton that same target,
That won't work, you would need to do it the other way around, quicken the Lightning Bolt to a bonus action and use your action to cast GFB. This because of the rules around casting spells with your bonus action.
Why would I not be allowed to use Green Flamed Blade as a bonus with quickened spell? It's still within the rules of one cantrip and one spell per turn. The entire point is to apply eldritch strike with the weapon attack before they have to make the saving throw on the lightning bolt.
Why would I not be allowed to use Green Flamed Blade as a bonus with quickened spell? It's still within the rules of one cantrip and one spell per turn.
That's not the rule though. The rule is that if you cast with your bonus action then all other spells have to be cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
The entire point is to apply eldritch strike with the weapon attack before they have to make the saving throw on the lightning bolt.
Yes and you can still do that, you just have to cast GFB with your action and then quicken the Lightning Bolt to be your bonus action. That's why I said it was a nitpick.
Why would I not be allowed to use Green Flamed Blade as a bonus with quickened spell? It's still within the rules of one cantrip and one spell per turn. The entire point is to apply eldritch strike with the weapon attack before they have to make the saving throw on the lightning bolt.
As Thezzaruz correctly points out (and I've corrected my post since I forgot myself) the rule is that if you cast any spell as a bonus action then you can only cast cantrips as your action (before or after doing it on the turn).
It's a silly way to structure the rule IMO, and a lot of people (like myself) fall into the habit of just thinking of it as "one levelled spell per turn" but there are cases where the actual rule is important, for example if a caster has Action Surge (can take more a second action in a turn) or needs to use counterspell during their own turn (e.g- to counter an enemy counterspell).
It's something I'm really hoping they'll change for OneD&D as "one levelled spell per turn" is so much easier to remember, and they're fixing the Action Surge for casting loophole anyway. Plus they can just make exceptions on a case-by-case basis for any reaction spells that need it (i.e- "you can cast this spell even if you already cast a spell during the same turn").
But that's a bit off-topic; for a caster with Quickened Spell it doesn't really change anything for you, since you can just do green-flame blade as your action, then lightning bolt as your Quickened Spell bonus action, it just means you won't be able to use any other Metamagics (such as Empowered Spell) on the levelled spell.
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Why would I not be allowed to use Green Flamed Blade as a bonus with quickened spell? It's still within the rules of one cantrip and one spell per turn. The entire point is to apply eldritch strike with the weapon attack before they have to make the saving throw on the lightning bolt.
As Thezzaruz correctly points out (and I've corrected my post since I forgot myself) the rule is that you cast any spell as a bonus action you then you can only cast cantrips as your action (before or after doing it on the turn).
It's a silly way to structure the rule IMO, and a lot of people (like myself) fall into the habit of just thinking of it as "one levelled spell per turn" but there are cases where the actual rule is important, for example if a caster has Action Surge (can take more a second action in a turn) or needs to use counterspell during their own turn (e.g- to counter an enemy counterspell).
It's something I'm really hoping they'll change for OneD&D as "one levelled spell per turn" is so much easier to remember, and they're fixing the Action Surge for casting loophole anyway. Plus they can just make exceptions on a case-by-case basis for any reaction spells that need it (i.e- "you can cast this spell even if you already cast a spell during the same turn").
But that's a bit off-topic; for a sorcerer with Quickened Spell it doesn't really change anything for you, since you can just do green-flame blade as your action, then lightning bolt as your Quickened Spell bonus action, it just means you won't be able to use any other Metamagics (such as Empowered Spell) on the levelled spell.
ahhhh, gothca. I get it now. Okay yeah that's pretty weird.
Why would I not be allowed to use Green Flamed Blade as a bonus with quickened spell? It's still within the rules of one cantrip and one spell per turn.
That's not the rule though. The rule is that if you cast with your bonus action then all other spells have to be cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
The entire point is to apply eldritch strike with the weapon attack before they have to make the saving throw on the lightning bolt.
Yes and you can still do that, you just have to cast GFB with your action and then quicken the Lightning Bolt to be your bonus action. That's why I said it was a nitpick.
Riiiiight, okay I getcha. Makes sense to me now. Thanks for clarifying it so that it's all within the rules.
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Just let me know if this logic makes sense.
So let's say we have a 15th level Eldritch Knight that has the metamagic adept feat that gives him quickened spell, and the warcaster feat that lets him use spells as an attack of opportunity. On his turn, he uses quickened spell to let him cast green flamed blade as a bonus action, making a melee weapon attack and dealing the additional fire damage. Eldritch Strike applies because the target was hit with a melee weapon attack that was used in the casting of green flamed blade. Then as an action, he casts Lightning Bolt on that same target, and the target then gets disadvantage on the saving throw because of eldritch strike. But then, he uses Action Surge to attack that same target again with three more attacks, and at least one of them hits once again applying Eldritch Strike. This is where his turn ends. But then, on the target's turn, it moves away from his threatened area, therefore provoking an opportunity attack from him. And since he has the warcaster feat, he casts Fireball as his opportunity attack. The creature will then again have disadvantage on the saving throw for that spell because of the Eldritch Strike that was applied at the end of his last turn.
I have seen a varation or two of this scenario, lol. Gets pretty nuts!
To clarify one thing; You're only using the melee weapon as part of the cantrip. You're not taking the Attack action by doing so, you're using the [Tooltip Not Found] action. It varies from table to table, but considering it technically isn't a Weapon Attack, rather a Spell Attack, then it may not work. It is certainly worth the discussion!
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A Quickened green-flame blade is still a melee weapon attack (it's not a melee spell attack) so it should qualify for Eldritch Strike,
so you could impose disadvantage with it as a bonus action and then cast a spell on the same turn to immediately benefit(as Thezzaruz correctly points out you actually need to do this the other way round, attack with GFB normally, then quicken the other spell, same difference really). Likewise with War Caster you could trigger save disadvantage in advance if you get a reaction attack, or you could use the reaction to benefit from a save disadvantage you already setup.If you have an ally with dissonant whispers they could help you trigger the reaction attack, since it forces a target to use its own reaction to move, so it triggers opportunity attacks unlike being pushed or teleporting. If you take the Polearm Master feat you can also gain an attack of opportunity when a target enters your reach which is often fairly easy to setup, as you don't actually need to use the polearm you're holding for the attack (though I suspect it's intended that you should).
What I will say though is that War Caster only allows you to cast certain types of spells as an opportunity attack; it needs to be a spell that takes an Action and only targets the creature that is leaving your reach (usually 5 feet), so fireball and other area effects won't qualify since they target a location not a creature. You may also want to ask your DM about green-flame blade in this case as it technically targets you (it has a range of Self), the actual attack is the effect of the spell.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
My reasoning here is that green flamed blade not only deals the damage of the weapon used, but it also uses strength modifier in the attack roll, instead of spell attack modifier. But yes, the exact reason why I brought this discussion up here was because my DM and I were talking about it pre-campaign.
Oh, I always thought that I just couldn't hit any other target except the one provoking an opportunity attack. So like, I thought it was fine as long as I cast my spells in a way that only the moving target is hit.
I agree that this would work as a general concept.
And I also agree with Haravikk that Fireball would not qualify for the Warcaster attack (and I'm also iffy on allowing Green-Flame Blade).
And one final nitpick...
That won't work, you would need to do it the other way around, quicken the Lightning Bolt to a bonus action and use your action to cast GFB. This because of the rules around casting spells with your bonus action.
Why would I not be allowed to use Green Flamed Blade as a bonus with quickened spell? It's still within the rules of one cantrip and one spell per turn. The entire point is to apply eldritch strike with the weapon attack before they have to make the saving throw on the lightning bolt.
That's not the rule though. The rule is that if you cast with your bonus action then all other spells have to be cantrips with a casting time of 1 action.
Yes and you can still do that, you just have to cast GFB with your action and then quicken the Lightning Bolt to be your bonus action. That's why I said it was a nitpick.
As Thezzaruz correctly points out (and I've corrected my post since I forgot myself) the rule is that if you cast any spell as a bonus action then you can only cast cantrips as your action (before or after doing it on the turn).
It's a silly way to structure the rule IMO, and a lot of people (like myself) fall into the habit of just thinking of it as "one levelled spell per turn" but there are cases where the actual rule is important, for example if a caster has Action Surge (can take more a second action in a turn) or needs to use counterspell during their own turn (e.g- to counter an enemy counterspell).
It's something I'm really hoping they'll change for OneD&D as "one levelled spell per turn" is so much easier to remember, and they're fixing the Action Surge for casting loophole anyway. Plus they can just make exceptions on a case-by-case basis for any reaction spells that need it (i.e- "you can cast this spell even if you already cast a spell during the same turn").
But that's a bit off-topic; for a caster with Quickened Spell it doesn't really change anything for you, since you can just do green-flame blade as your action, then lightning bolt as your Quickened Spell bonus action, it just means you won't be able to use any other Metamagics (such as Empowered Spell) on the levelled spell.
Former D&D Beyond Customer of six years: With the axing of piecemeal purchasing, lack of meaningful development, and toxic moderation the site isn't worth paying for anymore. I remain a free user only until my groups are done migrating from DDB, and if necessary D&D, after which I'm done. There are better systems owned by better companies out there.
I have unsubscribed from all topics and will not reply to messages. My homebrew is now 100% unsupported.
ahhhh, gothca. I get it now. Okay yeah that's pretty weird.
Riiiiight, okay I getcha. Makes sense to me now. Thanks for clarifying it so that it's all within the rules.